Reefing Method Question

[snoopy_]

I am trying to learn how to reef my mainsail with my current setup on a 1990 MKII TR.

I have a topping lift to support my boom, no vang or boom kicker. My main halyard leads to my cockpit, but everything else appears to happen at the mast.

1. Is it normal to release your topping lift once the main is raised? It seems some just loosen it a little, some never touch it. It is my understanding that once your mainsail is raised, you are supposed to release or let loose the topping lift as the mainsail now will support the boom. Not addressing the topping lift will inhibit the shape of the mainsail.

2. My current setup is a two-person job.

The first person at the mast secures the topping lift to support the boom.
The second person, in the cockpit, releases the main sheet to luff the mainsail, then lowers the main halyard to the designated reef point.
The first person pulls one line to sheet the aft end of the sail, then pulls the other line to reef the fore part of the mainsail and tie off to cleat on mast (I have no rams horn or reefing hook on this boat).
The second person would raise the main halyard from the cockpit.
The first person can now release the topping lift and return to the cockpit.
Then the second person would pull in the mainsheet.

Is this how you do it?

Are there any suggestions that would make the above easier?

I have a reefing hook that I plan on installing through the gooseneck.

I also like the idea of having a single-line reef system where all could be accomplished in the cockpit, but I think I need to add few blocks, cheeks, and rope chocks.

Thanks,

 

[sail sfbay]

Might look at post #10 in thus thread on how this sailor does it with photos: Reefing a Catalina 30 "Tall Rig" | Sailboat Owners Forums and this one: Single Line / Jifffy Reefing Main Sail | Sailboat Owners Forums

 

[Stu Jackson]

Are there any suggestions that would make the above easier?

I have a reefing hook that I plan on installing through the gooseneck.

I also like the idea of having a single-line reef system where all could be accomplished in the cockpit, but I think I need to add few blocks, cheeks, and rope chocks.

Your two person procedure leaves a lot to be desired. I believe it is dangerous. One person should always be able to do it, whether from the cockpit or the mast. You have a hybrid. Even the OEM slab jiffy reefing system on our boats from Catalina was better than what you have. You're on the right track: determine whether you want cockpit or mast, then dedicate yourself to doing it right, one way or the other. Single line reefing has its drawbacks, investigate double line reefing, it's much easier. Good luck.

 

[snoopy_]

Stu,

I don't understand. My two-person procedure is the way I tried to simplify what is from the factory.

I believe the boat is set up for a double-line slab reefing system, with the main halyard lead to the cockpit. The only way to reef this mainsail is to run between the mast and the cockpit, which is bizarre to me. If I divide the duties as described, at least one remains in the cockpit and the other remains forward of the mast, which I would think leaving that person protected. No?

 

[Alan Gomes]

You kinda lost me with this statement: "The first person pulls one line to sheet the aft end of the sail, then pulls the other line to reef the fore part of the mainsail and tie off to cleat on mast (I have no rams horn or reefing hook on this boat)." Does "pulling one line to sheet the aft end of the sail" mean tightening the reef clew, while "pulling the other line to reef the fore part of the sail" refer to securing the reef tack at or close to gooseneck level by tying it off to a cleat on the mast?

Assuming that is so, you've got some of the steps out of order. The correct order is:

1. Drop the sail to the pre-marked point on the halyard. (You have that part correct.)
2. Secure the reef tack.
3. Tension the luff of the sail with the main halyard.
4. Tension the reef clew.

You want tension on the luff first because you don't want to put aft tension on the slides, as they are not designed to take that kind of stress. A tight luff prevents this.

As for the topping lift, it's true that you don't want it tight and supporting the boom while the main is up. However, there is no requirement for it to be sloppy loose. In fact, you can have it just slightly loose, so that the sail and not the topping lift is holding up the boom, but still tight enough so that when you drop your halyard to reef, the boom doesn't fall into the cockpit.

 

[snoopy_]

Alan,

Okay, so that would explain why some never touch their topping lift. i.e. It's set to a height they are comfortable with so there is no need. I would think that would make raising the main a little harder at the end, but that may also be why they often winch the last foot of raising the main. Of course, that would depend on where the boom is set on the mast... (How would I know the correct height of the boom I removed my boom for storage during the winter? I assume you'd have to raise your main to determine that or have marked the correct height at some point?).

Following your steps, I drop the main to a determined point, set the tac reef, then the clew reef, raise the main.

Still, this appears to be a two-person job, because of the locations of the lines in relation to the main halyard, which for me is lead to the cockpit. I guess you could go between the cockpit, to the main, back to the cockpit... but it feels like reefing the clew forces you to move to a less safe area as you have come from behind or next to the mast to secure the clew reef to the boom jam cleat.

 

[jssailem]

With skipper and crew your system is logical based on the way it is rigged.

The way I handle my reefing sailing solo or with crew is similar but all lines are at the mast. No reason to run the main sail to the cockpit in my thinking. Not everyone will agree.

With the main in the cockpit you should consider running your reefing lines to the cockpit. Then your actions would be consolidated. Simple is a leadership thing.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Following your steps, I drop the main to a determined point, set the tac reef, then the clew reef, raise the main.

No, those are not my steps. My steps are:

Drop the main to a determined point.
Set the reef tack.
TENSION THE LUFF USING THE MAIN HALYARD
Tension the reef clew.

Since you have crew, simply put the crew member at the halyard for the first and third steps, while you handle the reefing lines at the mast.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I don't understand. My two-person procedure is the way I tried to simplify what is from the factory.

I believe the boat is set up for a double-line slab reefing system, with the main halyard lead to the cockpit. The only way to reef this mainsail is to run between the mast and the cockpit, which is bizarre to me.

That was my point:

determine whether you want cockpit or mast, then dedicate yourself to doing it right, one way or the other.

You shouldn't have the reefing points at the mast and the halyards run aft. Something's gotta give. Either change the halyard to the mast, or run the reefing lines aft. I wasn't commenting on your procedure, I was commenting on the setup of the lines.

 

[Alan Gomes]

You shouldn't have the reefing points at the mast and the halyards run aft. Something's gotta give. Either change the halyard to the mast, or run the reefing lines aft. I wasn't commenting on your procedure, I was commenting on the setup of the lines.

I think you are basically correct here, Stu. I would add, though, that it is possible to split the difference a bit, though not without trade-offs no matter what you do.

One way is to run all of the lines aft. That gives you complete control from the cockpit. The downside is that you have a lot of spaghetti in your cockpit, especially when you have the boat rigged for two (or more) reefs. It also entails more friction, as the lines have to run through various turning blocks to get back to the cockpit.

The other "pure" method is to handle all the lines at the mast, including the main halyard. This eliminates the need for any lines at the tack, since you can use reef hooks for it. It also reduces friction. But then, you are at the mast for a more prolonged period as you fiddle with the lines.

On my current setup, I have the main halyard and reef clews run back to the cockpit and the reef tack handled by a reef hook at the gooseneck. This has the advantage of reducing the amount of lines running aft, but it does mean a quick trip to the mast to set the reef tack in those cases where I'm reducing sail. On days when I know from the start that I am going to reef--and where I sail there are lots of those--I just have the reef tack set at the dock before I even raise the sail. In that scenario everything is handled from the cockpit--at least until it comes time to shake out that reef (presumably in lighter conditions).

I'm not saying that my method is better than the others, and I may decide to run the reef tack lines back to the cockpit. But so far it works pretty well for me, and I have not found the occasional quick trip to the mast especially onerous when I need to reef the sail while underway.

One thing that really helps with reef hooks, by the way, is a shock cord retainer I made that keeps the reef tack "dog bone" in place, so it does not fall out of the reef hook before I can get back to tension the main halyard.

 

[markwbird]

That sounds like my setup. I typically remove the topping lift from the boom and tie it down to the deck after raising the sail rather than loosen it. This is because it has a tendency to get hooked on the spreader when the main is all the way out. One thing I do when reefing is when I lower the sail to hook the forward reef point I leave the halyard a little loose while I tighten up the reef line that holds the back of the sail. In my case it is had tightened (no winch) to a cleat on the boom. Then, when I tighten up the halyard with the winch it also tightens up the reef line as it pulls the whole sail up. Better sail shape. I can do all of this by myself but not easily.

 

[Alan Gomes]

That sounds like my setup. I typically remove the topping lift from the boom and tie it down to the deck after raising the sail rather than loosen it. This is because it has a tendency to get hooked on the spreader when the main is all the way out. One thing I do when reefing is when I lower the sail to hook the forward reef point I leave the halyard a little loose while I tighten up the reef line that holds the back of the sail. In my case it is had tightened (no winch) to a cleat on the boom. Then, when I tighten up the halyard with the winch it also tightens up the reef line as it pulls the whole sail up. Better sail shape. I can do all of this by myself but not easily.

I see a few problems with this.

If you have removed the topping lift and tied it down to the deck, what do you do when you have to reef the sail, often in gnarly conditions? You would have to reattach it to the end of a flailing boom before dropping the halyard. Unless I'm misunderstanding something here, this seems like a really unsafe and difficult procedure. I think you would be better served by leaving the topping lift attached but adjusting the tension to just remove the slack without at the same time lifting the boom. There are also shock cord arrangements that you can set up to do this automatically if you don't want to mess with the topping lift tension to get it to exactly the sweet spot.

Secondly, when you talk about "tightening up the reef line that holds the back of the sail," I presume you are talking about the reef clew line. If so, you want to have the luff of the sail thoroughly tensioned before you put any tension on that line. If you tension the clew first you run the risk of damaging the luff slides and/or ripping them out of the sail.

This article from Pineapple Sails is quite excellent, and addresses all the questions raised so far in this thread.

 

[snoopy_]

That was my point:

You shouldn't have the reefing points at the mast and the halyards run aft. Something's gotta give. Either change the halyard to the mast, or run the reefing lines aft. I wasn't commenting on your procedure, I was commenting on the setup of the lines.

Okay, understood. I feel that I in my configuration I have two bad parts of possible good solutions. I will live with it for now, use it, until I understand my needs and wants better. Then, I can either move to all lines to cockpit, or all lines at mast. Both will require new hardware.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Okay, understood. I feel that I in my configuration I have two bad parts of possible good solutions. I will live with it for now, use it, until I understand my needs and wants better. Then, I can either move to all lines to cockpit, or all lines at mast. Both will require new hardware.

Since you sail with crew, I don't see anything especially "bad" about your setup. Just have your crew member handle the halyard while you are at the mast handling the reef lines. I do think you have some problems with technique, but if you just change the order of a few of the steps, as I've suggested, you'll be just fine. And do read the Pineapple Sails article I referenced in post #12.

 

[snoopy_]

Thanks to all for your answers and points of view. They were very much welcomed. The boat is new to me, and larger than my previous one, so it's complicated for me to understand. Of course models, equipment, rigging, and personal preferences all have a part in how reefing is completed. I am leading towards safety, as my crew is my wife; I would rather she be at the helm and me reef at the mast, or bring all the lines aft.

Also, my auto pilot is dead, which makes this more difficult for me. i.e. I could set course, move to main halyard while wife is setting the reef. I hope to have that operation this weekend.

Thank you,

Snoopy_

 

[Sailfanatic]

I am trying to learn how to reef my mainsail with my current setup on a 1990 MKII TR.

I have a topping lift to support my boom, no vang or boom kicker. My main halyard leads to my cockpit, but everything else appears to happen at the mast.

1. Is it normal to release your topping lift once the main is raised? It seems some just loosen it a little, some never touch it. It is my understanding that once your mainsail is raised, you are supposed to release or let loose the topping lift as the mainsail now will support the boom. Not addressing the topping lift will inhibit the shape of the mainsail.

2. My current setup is a two-person job.

The first person at the mast secures the topping lift to support the boom.
The second person, in the cockpit, releases the main sheet to luff the mainsail, then lowers the main halyard to the designated reef point.
The first person pulls one line to sheet the aft end of the sail, then pulls the other line to reef the fore part of the mainsail and tie off to cleat on mast (I have no rams horn or reefing hook on this boat).
The second person would raise the main halyard from the cockpit.
The first person can now release the topping lift and return to the cockpit.
Then the second person would pull in the mainsheet.

Is this how you do it?

Are there any suggestions that would make the above easier?

I have a reefing hook that I plan on installing through the gooseneck.

I also like the idea of having a single-line reef system where all could be accomplished in the cockpit, but I think I need to add few blocks, cheeks, and rope chocks.

Thanks,

I dont see anything wrong with your procedure, other than I prefer to get the topping lift out of the reefing process by setting it once to the correct length and then forgetting about it for the season. If you are short crew, one person can ease the halyard to to the reefing mark, go forward to set the two reef points at the mast, then return to the cockpit and re-tension the halyard. Dont point the boat directly into the wind, and going to and from the mast wont be encumbered.

To switch to singleline reefing, first you need a boom that has two turning blocks in the aft boom endcap and at least two turning blocks in the forward endcap. For routing the lines with shuttle blocks inside the boom, see the diagram about 3:30 in this video

.

Unless your boom is so low that you choose to raise the aft end when not sailing, or the boom droops due to a long leech, the correct length for the topping lift is that length which leaves it slightly slack when sailing closehauled. Then there is no need to attend to it in your normal sailing. You can sister in a piece of shock cord to minimize the slack that occurs when the main is eased.

 

[Alan Gomes]

From the Pinapple Sails site:

"It is important to note that the luff sliders are simply there to guide the sail up and down the mast when the sail is raised or lowered. Individually, each one is intended to support only a relatively small percentage of the sail.

When reefing, the order in which lines are tensioned or eased needs to follow a fairly rigorous procedure. Most importantly: you must not pull on the reef outhaul until you have established vertical tension on the luff between the halyard and the reef tack. Once luff tension is established, the luff sliders are protected from the large load imposed by the reef clew line. The penalty for improper reefing is usually a torn sail."

 

[snoopy_]

Alan,

Thank you, I came across this site in another post and I think it speaks to issues I was having comprehending the task. i.e. Depending on your rig and configuration, it will alter how you approach the task. e.g. If you have a reefing hook, if lines are lead to cockpit, etc. Pineapple Sails

 

[stevenhagberg]

Alan Gomes
I had a 1977 MK 1 with a similar set up as yours, but with a reefing hook which I installed.
I single hand a lot, and I found that if conditions were getting uncomfortable (which is usually when you are putting in a reef) it is so much easier to heave-to for a couple of minutes. Then while things are so much calmer, ease the halyard, make trip to the mast and get the new tack on the hook, make the trip back and tension the halyard.
With the main sheet eased, and the topping lift supporting the boom a little higher than usual, it’s easy (easier) to tension the reefed clew from alongside the boom. Obviously I’m not racing.
I always wear my PFD with harness. And set up my jack lines if it’s predicted or actually getting windy. And clip in before I leave the cockpit. Doing so makes me safer and my wife more relaxed about me single handing. And unless your wife or any other crew is ready to single hand back to you if you go overboard, you are in effect single handing all the time.
I now have a MK III with single line reefing and as Stu says, they have some problems. It would not be my first choice. After using both systems, I would choose yours. But I am thinking about a two line system since I never need a second reef.
good luck!

 

[Tally Ho]

I have an O'day 322, that was set up for single-line reefing. I have not been a fan of the single-line reefing setup (at least on my boat). So today, I have it set up with a reefing hook at the mast, and a single line to tighten the clew from the cockpit.

If I am smart enough to know I should reef before setting out, I will set the tack on the reef hook before I leave the dock. Then it is pretty easy to raise the main until the halyard is tight, then tighten the reefing line to pull down the clew. Works well and makes a tight reef.

If I am not smart, or if things conditions really change, I have drop the main to the reef cringle, go to the mast and put the tack on the hook, then back to the safety of the cockpit to tighten the main halyard and tighten the clew.

Shaking reef out is similar...ease the main halyard a bit, go up to the mast and unhook the tack.Then back to the cockpit to let the reefing line out and tighten the halyard.

I usually sail single-handed and I use this reefing method when a reef is needed. I do try to think ahead and reef before I leave the dock .

Like yesterday...

...I reefed early ;-)


Greg