i guess reefing is part of sail trim, so here goes. i have a '91 catalina 30 mkii, which came without reefing lines. how much and what kind of line should i buy for the clew reef, which runs along the boom, and the tack reef? please don't tell me to measure, like others have. what i'd like to know is how much extra i will need for things like loops and knots.
reefing lines
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Reefing
I am new at sailing, but reefing is to reduce the sail area when necessary, such as higher winds. The length of the line(s) depends on several things, based on experience with my boat, a O'Day 25. My main has one reefing point, others have more, those if you leave the reefing line on as I do in case of need, the length will vary depending on what reefing point you use. Second, the way the boom is set up for reefing may change things. My reefing line is a piece of line from my roller furling that was excess. I suggest a quick estimate of line length based on above, and get some extra. The line should be about less than 80 cents per foot. I just looked and found something that might be helpful. Good sailing
I am new at sailing, but reefing is to reduce the sail area when necessary, such as higher winds. The length of the line(s) depends on several things, based on experience with my boat, a O'Day 25. My main has one reefing point, others have more, those if you leave the reefing line on as I do in case of need, the length will vary depending on what reefing point you use. Second, the way the boom is set up for reefing may change things. My reefing line is a piece of line from my roller furling that was excess. I suggest a quick estimate of line length based on above, and get some extra. The line should be about less than 80 cents per foot. I just looked and found something that might be helpful. Good sailing
Mortyd....here's your answer
I went to the C30 association website and found the answer. It took me about a minute. Here's a hint... it's on page 21 of the C30 Parts manual, rigging section. Items #5 and #6. Use New England sta-set, Yale yachtbraid, or Samson LS. Even with that information, I suggest measuring yourself(sorry), just to be sure. Or at the very least add a foot or two as an extra allowance.
I went to the C30 association website and found the answer. It took me about a minute. Here's a hint... it's on page 21 of the C30 Parts manual, rigging section. Items #5 and #6. Use New England sta-set, Yale yachtbraid, or Samson LS. Even with that information, I suggest measuring yourself(sorry), just to be sure. Or at the very least add a foot or two as an extra allowance.
mortyd....
If you plan on owning a sailboat for any length of time you need good information resources and know how to use them. The most important being GOOGLE. Second is the owners' association for your boat. In my previous post I provided a link to the C30 owner's website, hoping you would find your way to the technical section which contains the owner's manual. Apparently, you missed the link, so here it is again. Point and click, please, to the related link below to take you directly to the technical section, this time, bypassing the home page. http://www.catalina30.com/TechLib/technical.htm Did you find it? Okay, then here's a link to the rigging section of the manual, go there the scroll to page 7 of 13. (bottom left of Adobe Acrobat frame) http://www.catalina30.com/TechLib/PartsManual/Rigging.pdf Mortyd There is a ton of information on your boat at this website: http://www.catalina30.com. Spend a little time there and you'll find many, many answers.
If you plan on owning a sailboat for any length of time you need good information resources and know how to use them. The most important being GOOGLE. Second is the owners' association for your boat. In my previous post I provided a link to the C30 owner's website, hoping you would find your way to the technical section which contains the owner's manual. Apparently, you missed the link, so here it is again. Point and click, please, to the related link below to take you directly to the technical section, this time, bypassing the home page. http://www.catalina30.com/TechLib/technical.htm Did you find it? Okay, then here's a link to the rigging section of the manual, go there the scroll to page 7 of 13. (bottom left of Adobe Acrobat frame) http://www.catalina30.com/TechLib/PartsManual/Rigging.pdf Mortyd There is a ton of information on your boat at this website: http://www.catalina30.com. Spend a little time there and you'll find many, many answers.
Loops
Mortyd The best way to figure that out is to get a piece of line and measure its length. Make a knot or loop in it and see how much shorter it is. ONLY YOU can tell how many you'll need in YOUR particular arrangement, so how can we possibly tell you? It's like asking us to trace a smell over the Internet. That's why folks have been saying:, just add a few feet. Stu
Mortyd The best way to figure that out is to get a piece of line and measure its length. Make a knot or loop in it and see how much shorter it is. ONLY YOU can tell how many you'll need in YOUR particular arrangement, so how can we possibly tell you? It's like asking us to trace a smell over the Internet. That's why folks have been saying:, just add a few feet. Stu
thank you so much, joe. i never knew or imagined all those neat things or how much i have to learn. it's a good thing for folk like me that ones like you are around. of course even folk like you make mistakes, small ones albeit, once a century. next thing tomorrow i'll look for a mki to trade for my mkii so i won't embarass you by looking in the wrong parts manual. how much more do you guess i'll have to ante up for a boat that matches your sources? thanks again. for the rest of you, about how much extra line do you think i'll need for reefing after i measure the distances, for things like slack and cleating? and what size and type line is most suitable. and, please, don't upset joe, he has trouble reading things like '91 and mkii.
Oh c'mon
*box He's just trying to help, and most of the time we're answering questions that have been asked and answered and are still trying to help people with direct references. Seems some people don't like to be told to do their own research or homework. That said, Mortyd, I still don't get your problem, given all the input. YOU figure how how long it needs to be and YOU do the measurement. What's so wrong about suggesting THAT? First you ask about knots and loops, now ya wanna know about slack and cleating. Give us a break. Really, we ARE trying to help, but what if someone said 2 feet and another said 6 feet? Please, just buy a few extra feet, after tying your knots and slacking your loops, and you'll get it. Try looking around the docks and asking some dock mates. I'm sure they'll be glad to measure everything for you, and maybe you can find someone to buy it for you, install it for you, knot it for you, loop it for you, slack it for you, cleat it for you, and probably even sail it for you. *! *sry Sorry about the rant, but I don't get your drift. Anyway, enjoy the weekend,Joe & I will. Stu PS BTW the rigging arrangement for Mark I and Mark II C30s is pretty much the same. Also, the references that Joe gave you detail BOTH the size and length of the lines if you do it the basic way (page 7 of 13 - I looked, did you?). There's no way for us to know how you've decided to run your reefing lines.
*box He's just trying to help, and most of the time we're answering questions that have been asked and answered and are still trying to help people with direct references. Seems some people don't like to be told to do their own research or homework. That said, Mortyd, I still don't get your problem, given all the input. YOU figure how how long it needs to be and YOU do the measurement. What's so wrong about suggesting THAT? First you ask about knots and loops, now ya wanna know about slack and cleating. Give us a break. Really, we ARE trying to help, but what if someone said 2 feet and another said 6 feet? Please, just buy a few extra feet, after tying your knots and slacking your loops, and you'll get it. Try looking around the docks and asking some dock mates. I'm sure they'll be glad to measure everything for you, and maybe you can find someone to buy it for you, install it for you, knot it for you, loop it for you, slack it for you, cleat it for you, and probably even sail it for you. *! *sry Sorry about the rant, but I don't get your drift. Anyway, enjoy the weekend,Joe & I will. Stu PS BTW the rigging arrangement for Mark I and Mark II C30s is pretty much the same. Also, the references that Joe gave you detail BOTH the size and length of the lines if you do it the basic way (page 7 of 13 - I looked, did you?). There's no way for us to know how you've decided to run your reefing lines.
thanks stu....
I thought I was pretty nice to the guy. If I'd just told him 22ft and 12 ft of 5/16 sta-set he probably wouldn't have got so confused or insulted. So, mortyd, you're on your own. Good luck, dude. BTW Stu, come sailing with me if you ever get down to san diego.
I thought I was pretty nice to the guy. If I'd just told him 22ft and 12 ft of 5/16 sta-set he probably wouldn't have got so confused or insulted. So, mortyd, you're on your own. Good luck, dude. BTW Stu, come sailing with me if you ever get down to san diego.
final heads up to Mortyd
Didn't mean to offend you, friend, but you place way to much emphasis on model type for something as simple as determining the size and length of a reefing line. It's just not that critical. Since your boat's previous owner didn't leave you a parts manual or an owner's guide, why don't you give Catalina Yachts customer service a call and request an owner's package. I shall attribute your sarcastic remarks to simple naivete and not take them personally. My advice to you has been sound and was offered with helpful intentions. The way you use it is your choice.
Didn't mean to offend you, friend, but you place way to much emphasis on model type for something as simple as determining the size and length of a reefing line. It's just not that critical. Since your boat's previous owner didn't leave you a parts manual or an owner's guide, why don't you give Catalina Yachts customer service a call and request an owner's package. I shall attribute your sarcastic remarks to simple naivete and not take them personally. My advice to you has been sound and was offered with helpful intentions. The way you use it is your choice.
hey, don, after reading these guys, you want to tell me you don't miss home? and joe, thanks for the numbers for your boat. if i had the same spars as you, or wanted to send you a christmas present, they'd be useful. thanks again for the help.
Try This
Go to West Marine, or Boat US, buy 100' feet of white w/blue fleck sta-set, 5/16. Buy one rigging knife, and a lighter to heat seal the ends. There, no manual, no measuring, simple answer. Sarcasm is infectious
Go to West Marine, or Boat US, buy 100' feet of white w/blue fleck sta-set, 5/16. Buy one rigging knife, and a lighter to heat seal the ends. There, no manual, no measuring, simple answer. Sarcasm is infectious
Who's Don?
and, mortyd, please let us know what you ended up doing. Stu BTW, we don't take Xmas presents, no bribes on this board!!! But how was Joe supposed to know what YOUR spars are?
and, mortyd, please let us know what you ended up doing. Stu BTW, we don't take Xmas presents, no bribes on this board!!! But how was Joe supposed to know what YOUR spars are?
i ended up using the original owners' manual specs. i did not expect joe to know what my spars were, but hoped someone with a similar mkii might have some advice on what he might have or not have wished done. i have lots of line left over, but better too much than too little. from the on-line parts manual it's clear that an awful lot of the parts of that boat are not on mine, and vice versa. 5961 is a lot of boats of of seven thousand.
Well done
Thanks for the feeback. Not too hard, eh? The final ?: "but hoped someone with a similar mkii might have some advice on what he might have or not have wished done" WAS somewhat different than your earlier requests. You are now a MOT, welcome aboard. *5 Stu Joe - we gotta be nicer, and special nice to Mortyd!!!
Thanks for the feeback. Not too hard, eh? The final ?: "but hoped someone with a similar mkii might have some advice on what he might have or not have wished done" WAS somewhat different than your earlier requests. You are now a MOT, welcome aboard. *5 Stu Joe - we gotta be nicer, and special nice to Mortyd!!!
Nothing wrong with anything...
...in the first query. Later, just three ?s in different places, but let's put that ALL behind us. Glad it works for you. We maybe should have sent you to the related link as an idea based on your third ?. Hopes this helps. Stu
...in the first query. Later, just three ?s in different places, but let's put that ALL behind us. Glad it works for you. We maybe should have sent you to the related link as an idea based on your third ?. Hopes this helps. Stu
Okay Mortyd...
You just don't get it. I don't own a Cat 30, and this isn't rocket science. I was just trying to point you in the right direction to find some specs on your boat. FYI the rig dimensions for all C30 models are the same, as are the hull specs because that defines the C30 class. Now if you had taken the time to research the information I provided you it would have been clear that the "E" dimension (length of sail's foot) is the same for all models, C30, MKI and MKII, it's 11'6" for std rig and 12ft for tall rig. That means spar length is relatively unimportant. What is important is the location of the main's reefing cringles, turning block placement and cleat postion. Those locations can vary from boat to boat depending on the sailmaker and who installed the hardware, factory, owner or independent rigger. Many sailors convert the factory rigging setup to suit their particular needs, such as leading the lines back to the cockpit or converting to a single line system. That's why you take Herb's suggestion and get some 5/16 Sta set and cut it to fit, since a reefing line is just a piece of rope not some specially engineered part. Have fun, I'm going sailing.
You just don't get it. I don't own a Cat 30, and this isn't rocket science. I was just trying to point you in the right direction to find some specs on your boat. FYI the rig dimensions for all C30 models are the same, as are the hull specs because that defines the C30 class. Now if you had taken the time to research the information I provided you it would have been clear that the "E" dimension (length of sail's foot) is the same for all models, C30, MKI and MKII, it's 11'6" for std rig and 12ft for tall rig. That means spar length is relatively unimportant. What is important is the location of the main's reefing cringles, turning block placement and cleat postion. Those locations can vary from boat to boat depending on the sailmaker and who installed the hardware, factory, owner or independent rigger. Many sailors convert the factory rigging setup to suit their particular needs, such as leading the lines back to the cockpit or converting to a single line system. That's why you take Herb's suggestion and get some 5/16 Sta set and cut it to fit, since a reefing line is just a piece of rope not some specially engineered part. Have fun, I'm going sailing.
Sharing
The only real drawback to sharing info over the internet (anyone spend much time on the Cruising World BBS?) is that it's easy to misinterpret people's intentions. We all know sailors are as bull-headed as any group, but that's why it's so interesting to get different perspectives. The way I see it, I'm appreciative of Mortyd for the original posting, but I also see how Joe and Stu get tired of newbies appearing to not make much real effort to get their answers. We've all been there before and most of us have both learned and shared quite a bit over the years here. I assume Mortyd was referring to the esteemed Don Guillette since the original post was to the Sail Trim forum. The net result from this thread was that hopefully no one's feelings are hurt and some good info was shared - and how bad can that be? I wish everyone the best this Independence Day weekend and I look forward to enjoying our boats and the discussion this summer! Best, Trevor
The only real drawback to sharing info over the internet (anyone spend much time on the Cruising World BBS?) is that it's easy to misinterpret people's intentions. We all know sailors are as bull-headed as any group, but that's why it's so interesting to get different perspectives. The way I see it, I'm appreciative of Mortyd for the original posting, but I also see how Joe and Stu get tired of newbies appearing to not make much real effort to get their answers. We've all been there before and most of us have both learned and shared quite a bit over the years here. I assume Mortyd was referring to the esteemed Don Guillette since the original post was to the Sail Trim forum. The net result from this thread was that hopefully no one's feelings are hurt and some good info was shared - and how bad can that be? I wish everyone the best this Independence Day weekend and I look forward to enjoying our boats and the discussion this summer! Best, Trevor
thanks for assuming i'm a newbie, which i am not. thanks for assuming i had not already got the dimensions from the manual, which i had. thanks for assuming i could not tell what was the same on my boat and what was not, which i can and did. next time i can help you guys with things i have, or have not done, don't hestitate.
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