reefed main

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Apr 19, 1999
1,670
Pearson Wanderer Titusville, Florida
Hey Ben

Tell your "crew" that: a) ignoring or refusing to grasp some of the basic technical aspects of sailing can lead to discomfort, serious injury or death, and b) real racers DO reef. Click on link below. Peter H23 "Raven"
 
Oct 25, 2005
735
Catalina 30 Banderas Bay, Mexico
Order in the madness ... :)

Hey Scott, It sounds like you are doing things in the right order. Your description "... I normally attach the tack to the hook and then tension the halyard before tensioning the clews reef line. I have to go forward to attach the tack, then I normally go back to the cockpit to tension the halyard and then tension the reefing line which is led from the gooseneck down to a fairlead at the base of the mast and back through a deck organiser and then a clutch to a cabin top winch." Is a perfect example of why I'm not a big fan of leading main halyards and reef lines aft. What holds the the sail on the reef hook while you go back to tension the halyard? Too much walking back and forth for this old man. :) Peter gets away with, "When reefing, I ease the mainsheet and vang, tension the topping lift, then drop the sail until I can hook the tack cringle over the ram's horn, including the sail stop juggle. Next, I tension the reefing line, which on my boat only controls the clew of the sail. With the halyard slack, the sail is so loose that the reefing line (it should be rigged to pull the clew down and aft as PaulK and Vern mentioned) tensions the new "foot" of the sail properly. Then I rehoist the sail, tension the halyard, ease the topping lift, sheet in and I'm gone." The usual order is to ease the halyard, secure the tack, and re-hoist ... then tension the reef line. On many boats if the reef line is tensioned before the halyard the sail can be damaged. If you know (as Peter does) that on your boat, setting the reef line first will give the proper shape you can do it in that order. One of Peter's actions is very important. He sets the topping lift! It is always easier to haul the sail down to the boom than hoist the boom to the sail. This is a good reason for adding a boomkicker or other "rigid" boom vang. Supporting the boom while reefing is a key factor. As far as the webbing straps lead through the reef tack cringles, they can add to the problem in many cases, they require greater setback on the reef cringles. When the sail is at full hoist, the distance from the sail track to the tack horn on the boom is the setback measurement for the tack. When the sail is set and the outhaul tight, the tack cringle keeps the outhaul from pulling the luff rope or sail slides out of the luff groove. Compare the location of the tack horn to the position of the reef hooks. On most boats, the reef hooks are farther aft than the tack horn. That means that the reef tack cringle must also be farther aft. If the reef tack cringle has a web strap through it and the ring goes over the reef hook, the reef tack cringle must be even farther aft. A simple test for reef tack cringle setback is to look at the sail slide just above the reef tack. If it is pulled aft by the reef line, the tack cringle is not far enough aft. When the reef line is tensioned the sail slides (or luff rope) must be free to slide in the luff grove. Another check is to ease the halyard, set the tack, tension the reef line then see where the wrinkles are as you rehoist the sail. If there is a wrinkle between the reef clew and one or more sail slides, the tack is wrong. Even good sailmakers get it wrong. I've lost count of the number of sails that I've seen than have had issues with getting good reefed shape. As a rigger, it should not be my job to "make the reefing lines work right" when all that's needed is moving a cringle ... grrrr :) The damn hardware was on the boom when the sailmaker measured, why should I have to move it to fit the sail? It's like buying an Armani Suit and having the tailor send you to a surgeon to make your arms fit the sleeves.
 
May 14, 2004
99
Catalina Capri 22 Town Creek, MD
thanks Peter

On the 4th page, amazing to see so many craft (powerboats & choppers) focused on the one sailboat. Page 2, 3rd & 4th pics: I've never seen that sort of main rigged. Apparently conditions were beyond the reef points on the regular main?
 
M

Moody Buccaneer

That would be a Tri-Sail

You are right, when the 3rd reef is still too much sail, the main comes down and the storm tri-sail goes up. I heard that Wild Oats was sailing over 15 knots at times with just the blade and no main (page 4)... that is a serious boat and some serious wind.
 
S

Scott

Pete, my boom is like yours ...

There are two sheaves at the clew end for the reef lines and a sheave for the outhaul. I think my problem may lie in using one cheek block which is not far enough aft and makes it difficult to draw the cringle aft when tensioning the reef line. Moody, I've noted the position of the tack when the reef is set and I believe it is correctly positioned. Now that you mention the sensitivity of it, I now remember and know why the sail maker asked me some very specific questions about what I wanted and measured the boom accordingly when he made our new sail. I added the cheek blocks on both sides of the boom, and I thought they were sufficiently aft. The previous owner obviously just led the line directly from the sheave, through the cringle and down to the bale where the mainsheet block is attached. I didn't like that set up and I considered adding a track system like Barry shows, before deciding to add the cheek blocks. I may go back to that in the end. But first I am going to try it like Pete suggests by using the topping lift and running the reef line more horizontally from the sheave to the cringle before tacking it at the boom for the vertical load.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,336
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
My take on this thread

is that it seems, like Scott mentioned, that the clew cringle was not being pulled aft as well as down. Almost any main, almost no matter how baggy (believe me, I know from personal experience!) will and should be much flatter when reefed if the clew reef point is properly located.
 
Oct 25, 2005
735
Catalina 30 Banderas Bay, Mexico
Hold on to that sailmaker!

It sounds like Scott knows a good sailmaker! I was never a fan of running reef lines from the boom, up through the reef clew, than back to the end of the boom. That was until I got a laminate main. Reef lines lead up from the boom and back down to a cheek block trap too much cloth and it is next to impossible to get the foot shape right. Leading the line to the end of the boom allows the sail to fall away from the boom and not get trapped (and mangled) by the reef line. Selden recommends that the boom end of the reef line be about 100mm aft of the reef clew, the other side of the reef line goes to the end of the boom. Single line systems require that the foot gets tensioned first, then the halyard re-hoisted. For a period of time it was fashionable to put the reefing winch on the aft side of the mast under the boom. The reef lines came out of the bottom of the boom to the winch. When the reef was tensioned, the jammer at the inboard end of the boom held it there. All the reef line (lots with a single line system) stayed at the mast and didn't clutter the cockpit. Now the fashion is to lead everything aft so we sail in a sea of spaghetti ... progress ... :(
 
Apr 19, 1999
1,670
Pearson Wanderer Titusville, Florida
Hey Moody

While out sailing yesterday I measured the reef clew. It is a full two feet (20% of the total boom length) ahead of the end of the boom. The ring that's just above the boom is not directly below the reef clew either, it's about six inches aft. The reeefing line is pulling the reef clew aft on both sides, so I have no trouble tightening the reefed foot and flattening the sail. You are also right in that the reefed slab of sail falls away from the boom and is not fouled by the reefing line. Peter H23 "Raven"
 
Oct 25, 2005
735
Catalina 30 Banderas Bay, Mexico
Another properly built sail :)

Peter, yup, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Your set-up sounds right and it works right. Funny how tose two go hand in hand. :)
 
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