Beautiful day for sailing this weekend. Went out initially with my wife, my brother and his wife. With my (slightly nervous) sister-in-law aboard, the calm winds early in the day were perfect for a steady comfortable sail. After about an hour, as the winds picked up, I dropped off my wife and sister-in-law. The winds were at 15+ knots when my brother and I headed back out, so I reefed the main. I couldn't believe how well it handled in spite of the strong winds, we tried unfurling the jib and found that the boat speed picked up by 1-2 knots (per GPS) and did not adversely effect handling at all. We continued to sail for 4 hours, exploring, and also practicing hove-to techniques and MOB drills. I had only reefed the main once before and kept the jib furled as suggested by others here, but found the boat underpowered. That day I ended up shaking out the reef. However, this weekend, with the combination of reefed main and unfurled jib, the boat handled beautifully in conditions that might have made me head in previously. Also, one needs to have the jib available to do a hove to, which may be needed in rough conditions. This was my brother's first time out on the 170, he had sailed sunfishes and daysailers occasionally 20 years ago. He loved this boat! What are others' experiences with reefing? Pro's and con's of unfurling the jib in strong winds?
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reefed main, sailing Ontario
David, My wife and I are still learning to sail our 170 so we sail reefed quite a bit, perhaps overcautiously, but it does increase our comfort level and confidence. With the main reefed, we always sail with the jib fully unfurled, and the boat seems balanced and controllable. In the past I tried a few times, without success, to tweak the sail area by partially furling the jib. But as Hunter points out, the jib roll-up is designed for furling, not for reefing, and the rig doesn't work well for reefing. This weekend we went sailing on Lake Ontario for the first time. All our previous outings were on Canandaigua Lake, approx. 2 miles wide by 16 miles long and surrounded by low hills. On the open water of Ontario, I noticed a big difference in the wind: both the speed and direction were much more consistent than on Canandaigua. We were able to sail comfortably with a full main and jib in a moderate breeze. This was a pleasant surprise. Given the same wind speed on Canandaigua, I probably would have reefed. I've concluded that on the smaller lake, I'm reefing not because of the overall wind speed, but because the wind is unpredictable. Under full sail, we'd hit a lull, lose headway, sit there luffing, and then have the kapok scared out of us by a sudden fresh gust which, since we were barely moving, translated into a lot of heeling and very little forward motion. On Ontario, this wasn't a problem. We haven't tried sailing with a reefed main and fully furled jib. But with a full main and a furled jib, the 170 takes on a strong windward helm, so I'd recommend using the jib under most any circumstances. Rick
David, My wife and I are still learning to sail our 170 so we sail reefed quite a bit, perhaps overcautiously, but it does increase our comfort level and confidence. With the main reefed, we always sail with the jib fully unfurled, and the boat seems balanced and controllable. In the past I tried a few times, without success, to tweak the sail area by partially furling the jib. But as Hunter points out, the jib roll-up is designed for furling, not for reefing, and the rig doesn't work well for reefing. This weekend we went sailing on Lake Ontario for the first time. All our previous outings were on Canandaigua Lake, approx. 2 miles wide by 16 miles long and surrounded by low hills. On the open water of Ontario, I noticed a big difference in the wind: both the speed and direction were much more consistent than on Canandaigua. We were able to sail comfortably with a full main and jib in a moderate breeze. This was a pleasant surprise. Given the same wind speed on Canandaigua, I probably would have reefed. I've concluded that on the smaller lake, I'm reefing not because of the overall wind speed, but because the wind is unpredictable. Under full sail, we'd hit a lull, lose headway, sit there luffing, and then have the kapok scared out of us by a sudden fresh gust which, since we were barely moving, translated into a lot of heeling and very little forward motion. On Ontario, this wasn't a problem. We haven't tried sailing with a reefed main and fully furled jib. But with a full main and a furled jib, the 170 takes on a strong windward helm, so I'd recommend using the jib under most any circumstances. Rick
Reefing is good
David, Sometimes I like to sail with the main reefed if the wind is unpredictable, and with the jib flying our 170's still have plenty of speed. But it's speed without the worry of being knocked down. It turns a windy day into a relaxing day. You prbably had the same wonderful weather in Michigan this past weekend as we had in Ohio. It really was wonderful sailing. The picture of the lighthouse I posted earlier was taken while I was hove-to in some three footers. What a perfect way to pause in a sailboat without dropping sails. I'm so much more comfortable now, knowing this works so well. JerryA
David, Sometimes I like to sail with the main reefed if the wind is unpredictable, and with the jib flying our 170's still have plenty of speed. But it's speed without the worry of being knocked down. It turns a windy day into a relaxing day. You prbably had the same wonderful weather in Michigan this past weekend as we had in Ohio. It really was wonderful sailing. The picture of the lighthouse I posted earlier was taken while I was hove-to in some three footers. What a perfect way to pause in a sailboat without dropping sails. I'm so much more comfortable now, knowing this works so well. JerryA
Reefed main and full jib= good!
David, I just sold my beloved 170 to an eager buyer in Miami and he reports that he's very, very pleased with her-- which really makes me happy! And I'm happy with my new boat- a Compac 19! But I'm still going to comment on the 170 with reefed main and full jib, since you asked! I used to love to run reefed main and unfurled jib in 15+ days... even singlehanded! I found that I could sit continuously, up on the windward gunwale/top rail, and just fly. When the boat heeled too much, I'd just round her up slightly (so as not to luff totally, but just to put her back on her feet- while maintaining way-on) or luff the main ever so slightly. I found that the 170's jib is so powerful that I could just leave the jib closehauled (with the tail of the active sheet draped safely over the windward side, right next to me IN CASE I had to luff it in a super heavy gust) and just spill the main slightly now and then as needed. The jib maintained the boat's forward motion so well that I never touched it. Never needed to ease it either, so long as I pinched up whenever the boat heeled too high. Worked for me! Glad you had success with this arrangement too! Best, Mike G. s/v Freebird
David, I just sold my beloved 170 to an eager buyer in Miami and he reports that he's very, very pleased with her-- which really makes me happy! And I'm happy with my new boat- a Compac 19! But I'm still going to comment on the 170 with reefed main and full jib, since you asked! I used to love to run reefed main and unfurled jib in 15+ days... even singlehanded! I found that I could sit continuously, up on the windward gunwale/top rail, and just fly. When the boat heeled too much, I'd just round her up slightly (so as not to luff totally, but just to put her back on her feet- while maintaining way-on) or luff the main ever so slightly. I found that the 170's jib is so powerful that I could just leave the jib closehauled (with the tail of the active sheet draped safely over the windward side, right next to me IN CASE I had to luff it in a super heavy gust) and just spill the main slightly now and then as needed. The jib maintained the boat's forward motion so well that I never touched it. Never needed to ease it either, so long as I pinched up whenever the boat heeled too high. Worked for me! Glad you had success with this arrangement too! Best, Mike G. s/v Freebird
To furl or unfurl
It is good to hear that we are all out there enjoying our 170's and 146's, and that the flexibility of these boats allows for a range of conditions. The more I sail it, the more I learn - but that is what sailing is about, isn't it? Jerry - I love the hove-to technique, now that I know how. I haven't used it, other than to practice, but I like the idea of doing it to capture some good photos. Loved those shots of yours. Mike - Appreciate your input on this. I have looked at those Compac 19's before at sail shows and found them to be VERY nicely designed and laid out. Great use of space. How does it sail? I joined a different sailing club this year, which uses Interlake 18's. Everyone, regardless of previous sailing experience, has to take on-water and written tests. Had my 2 hour on-water test (leaving dock, sail on all points of sail, come abouts, gybes, hove-to, MOB-both figure 8 and Gybe recovery methods, and docking via 3 different approaches)this morning, and passed! I plan to take the written test later this week and will then be able to take the club boats out whenever I want. That takes care of my sailing fix near home, as my 170 is kept docked 5 hours away.
It is good to hear that we are all out there enjoying our 170's and 146's, and that the flexibility of these boats allows for a range of conditions. The more I sail it, the more I learn - but that is what sailing is about, isn't it? Jerry - I love the hove-to technique, now that I know how. I haven't used it, other than to practice, but I like the idea of doing it to capture some good photos. Loved those shots of yours. Mike - Appreciate your input on this. I have looked at those Compac 19's before at sail shows and found them to be VERY nicely designed and laid out. Great use of space. How does it sail? I joined a different sailing club this year, which uses Interlake 18's. Everyone, regardless of previous sailing experience, has to take on-water and written tests. Had my 2 hour on-water test (leaving dock, sail on all points of sail, come abouts, gybes, hove-to, MOB-both figure 8 and Gybe recovery methods, and docking via 3 different approaches)this morning, and passed! I plan to take the written test later this week and will then be able to take the club boats out whenever I want. That takes care of my sailing fix near home, as my 170 is kept docked 5 hours away.
Re: Compac 19's sailing characteristics
David, Sorry for the slight delay on a reply to your question about the CP19. It is indeed very nicely designed and laid-out, as your sail show recollections indicate. It's a very solid boat, and I believe the ballast/keel are molded into the hull, as opposed to bolted on (as most keels are). Also only draws 2' of water. But there's some slippage to the lee as a result- not too too bad though. She holds her own. The first thing I noticed when taking our Compac out for the first time was that she barely moved when I stepped aboard at the dock. I preferred to always step into the center of our 170 from the dock, to avoid sway- but it's not an issue in this Compac. Dockside I also noticed that I can't just fling the boat around --for example while trying to reposition her slightly at the dock, or while shoving off. The boat doesn't respond to subtlties. I used to "stop" our 170 with my own brawn when arriving back at the dock- but I found that brute force used against a small keelboat is ineffective and could cause back injury!! -so I plan my approaches/stops a little more meticulously now, or use a spring line on a dock post to slow her motion. Under sail, the Compac sails flat. The one time we had her out so far, the wind was continuously over 15- and to be fair was probably more like 18-20- and I didn't worry about reefing. The boat maybe heeled to 10 degrees in one bigger puff. The jib is a 135% sail, so it would be the first thing to be reefed in higher breezes-- because the main is maybe 100 sq ft. and the jib is probably 100 sq ft. on its own. I haven't tried reefing the jib, but I think the Compac's roller furling jib is large enough that roller reefing would be effective...as opposed to I didn't find it effective ever on the 170-- too little sail-- or not enough rollup tension to keep the reefed part from bagging out on me. The Compac doesn't seem to sail quite as fast upwind as the 170, but it'd probably be close on a beam reach to a run. I was surprised how much good ground I was making while reaching. We sacrificed some responsiveness by getting the Compac- but I think every sailboat is a compromise for something--- we have a cabin, (800 lbs. of 2000 lbs total displacement) built-in ballast, a toilet... but we now lack the sudden acceleration and ghosting capabilities of the 170. Another cool thing was that my wife can go into the cabin while I singlehand in moderate wind and nap. It's quite a different sensation than having the "human ballast/crew" constantly being on alert in such conditions in the 170! That's all I can think of at the moment. I'll report more once we have her out for an overnighter/weekend sail! Mike
David, Sorry for the slight delay on a reply to your question about the CP19. It is indeed very nicely designed and laid-out, as your sail show recollections indicate. It's a very solid boat, and I believe the ballast/keel are molded into the hull, as opposed to bolted on (as most keels are). Also only draws 2' of water. But there's some slippage to the lee as a result- not too too bad though. She holds her own. The first thing I noticed when taking our Compac out for the first time was that she barely moved when I stepped aboard at the dock. I preferred to always step into the center of our 170 from the dock, to avoid sway- but it's not an issue in this Compac. Dockside I also noticed that I can't just fling the boat around --for example while trying to reposition her slightly at the dock, or while shoving off. The boat doesn't respond to subtlties. I used to "stop" our 170 with my own brawn when arriving back at the dock- but I found that brute force used against a small keelboat is ineffective and could cause back injury!! -so I plan my approaches/stops a little more meticulously now, or use a spring line on a dock post to slow her motion. Under sail, the Compac sails flat. The one time we had her out so far, the wind was continuously over 15- and to be fair was probably more like 18-20- and I didn't worry about reefing. The boat maybe heeled to 10 degrees in one bigger puff. The jib is a 135% sail, so it would be the first thing to be reefed in higher breezes-- because the main is maybe 100 sq ft. and the jib is probably 100 sq ft. on its own. I haven't tried reefing the jib, but I think the Compac's roller furling jib is large enough that roller reefing would be effective...as opposed to I didn't find it effective ever on the 170-- too little sail-- or not enough rollup tension to keep the reefed part from bagging out on me. The Compac doesn't seem to sail quite as fast upwind as the 170, but it'd probably be close on a beam reach to a run. I was surprised how much good ground I was making while reaching. We sacrificed some responsiveness by getting the Compac- but I think every sailboat is a compromise for something--- we have a cabin, (800 lbs. of 2000 lbs total displacement) built-in ballast, a toilet... but we now lack the sudden acceleration and ghosting capabilities of the 170. Another cool thing was that my wife can go into the cabin while I singlehand in moderate wind and nap. It's quite a different sensation than having the "human ballast/crew" constantly being on alert in such conditions in the 170! That's all I can think of at the moment. I'll report more once we have her out for an overnighter/weekend sail! Mike
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