Reefed loose-footed mainsail control

[firehoser75]

Single Line Reefing

Correct me if I am incorrect, but could you not achieve what Rich was talking about, more depth in the sail for power, (with single line reefing) by loosening off the reef line a bit, and then retensioning the halyard? You could also tie off the clew reef point (to the boom) with a separate line to help take some of the load off the reefing line.

Would that be workable?
Thanks,
Tom

 

[Scott T-Bird]

firehoser, the halyard has no relation with the clew of the sail, so you can't really do what you are suggesting by increasing tension on the halyard. I think in an ideal world, you would want to have the same sail controls with a reefed sail as you do with a full sail. If you use a separate reefing line for the tack of the reef, then you can control it just like a cunningham. The problem becomes what to do with the clew. (Actually, my reef tack is held with a rams horn, so I don't worry about flattening the luff.

I've often thought that it would be a simple matter to disconnect the outhaul shackle from the clew and reattach it to the new clew when reefing the main (in fact, I have often done it). Maybe that is because the end of the boom is readily accessible in my boat and I don't have that much material to sort out when reefing. But it also strikes me that sail shape is just as important when reefing as it is when sailing with a full sail. With the outhaul reattached, I would find a way to use the reefing line to simply hold the clew close to the boom no matter what position the outhaul is in. This way, sail shape with a reefed sail would be far more effective ... you don't have the problem that's created by easing the reefing line.

It is probably because we don't have the discomfort and danger of large waves on an open body of water (we don't get any waves at all), but I'm always looking forward to those single reef days and even a double reef day is a welcome challenge (we finally had one of those days in October after a summer with absolutely NO wind.

All windsurfers know that increased winds are welcome and sail shape is just as important with a small sail as it is with a large sail. You don't over-flatten with a small sail just because the wind is too much for your large sail. Any windsurfer will tell you that an over-flattened sail of any size feels like holding a barn door in a high wind compared to the comfortable feeling of holding an air-foil with just the right shape. You can't sail a windsurfer with an over-flattened sail nearly as well as you can sail with the right sized sail trimmed with correct draft depth and draft position all adjusted by trimming the outhaul and downhaul just right. I have to think that it is the same with a sail boat.

 

[RichH]

Correct me if I am incorrect, but could you not achieve what Rich was talking about, more depth in the sail for power, (with single line reefing) by loosening off the reef line a bit, and then retensioning the halyard? You could also tie off the clew reef point (to the boom) with a separate line to help take some of the load off the reefing line.

Would that be workable?
Thanks,
Tom

Friction, of the 'rope' through the reefing cringles, is the bane of single line reefing. The problem with single line techniques is that the reef tack and the reef clew are simultaneously adjusted - the tack is simultaneously adjusted with the clew. In contrast, a double line system will allow the tack to be independently adjusted (tack adjusts the fore/aft position of maximum draft ... for helm balance considerations) ... from the clew portion (clew adjusts the 'amount' of draft ... for power or speed considerations).

With single line reefing you can 'come close' to that obtained from a 'double line'; but, the system has to be virtually 'frictionless' by using 'cringle blocks', etc. Eg: http://www.goiot.com/pdf/p48a.pdf ... but the tension on the tack will still be 'dependent' of the clew tension ..... a 'compromise' that inhibits independent 'adjustability'.

 

[Sam Salter]

I often wondered about this and if the cringles aren't supposed to have any strain on them, why are they in line on the sail with the reef points?
All U Get

All U Get,

The reefing nettles aren't in line with the reef cringles!
Unless your sailmaker was new at this, your reefing nettles should be 2 or 3 inches lower than the line between the 2 reefing cringles. This is (and always has been) standard sailmaking practice just so the reefing nettles don't take any stran and are just used to "tidy up" the flapping foot.

sam

 

[All U Get]

Hi Sam,
I checked some old photos and you are correct, they are slightly lower.
All U Get

 

[firehoser75]

Rich and Scott,
Thanks for responding to my post. Scott, yes I do understand that the clew has nothing to do with the halyard. I was just thinking that with single line reefing, and as Rich explained, the one line affects both tack and clew at the same time, that maybe the halyard could be used to "re-tighten" the luff of the sail to give some control over draft position IF you loosened the reefing line to obtain more draft (depth) in the foot of the sail to gain the power Rich was talking about being needed to better punch through seas.
If I understand what Rich is saying, due to the limitations of single line reefing this would probably not be that effective.
Scott, I had never thought of moving the outhaul shackle when reefing. Personally, I would probably be hesitant to do this, as the seas are starting to get bigger by the time we usually reef (around 12-15K true), and I usually have enough to worry about anyway.
Thanks again,
Tom

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I think that would be the major flaw of changing the outhaul shackle to the new clew. In rough seas, it wouldn't be smart to be standing up in the cockpit making adjustments at the end of the boom.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Firehoser75; The reason you reefed in the first place was the wind was providing too much power. Why would you want to power up a reefed sail? Just unreef.
Or did I miss something?

 

[Don Guillette]

Bill R: I agree and Joe from San Diego said it in the 6th message on this topic --- "The whole point of the reef is to "depower" the sail plan. If you want more power, shake out the reef". In my case, I'm either reefed or I'm not.

On the two ocassion in So Ca where I had to reef my main concern was getting myself and the boat back to the dock in one piece. I had done everything I could to depower the boat from a sail trim standpoint and the minute I realized what I've done isn't going to work I rolled up the jib and slapped in the reef before conditions got worse, which they did. Had I waited it would have been difficult for me to reef. I could have cared less about main and jib sail trim.

It's been said a million times on the sail trim forum - the minute it occurs to a sailor that they might have to reef, that's the time to do it. Don't wait because things arn't likely to get better.

One other thing I do just before I reef, and it's my personal preference, is to start the engine. In my first reefing situation I felt I was losing control of the boat and I was about ready to drop the main and start the engine but I couldn't do either because I had to hold onto the wheel due to the wind and waves. Additionally, I wasn't thinking straight. I learned a few lessons that day and those lessons made the second reefing situation a lot easier. One big lesson I learned is that the Catalina 30 can take a lot of punishment and will take care of me long after I can't take care of her.

 

[islandplanetsails]

When you order a new main, it can be built with or without reef nettles. A lot of our customers prefer not to have them. The rationale is that if you forget to untie one and aren't paying attention, damage can result. One customer, who had recently completed a circumnavigation, was very specific in telling us not to bother with the nettles.

 

[sinnettc]

When you order a new main, it can be built with or without reef nettles. A lot of our customers prefer not to have them. The rationale is that if you forget to untie one and aren't paying attention, damage can result. One customer, who had recently completed a circumnavigation, was very specific in telling us not to bother with the nettles.

I use ball type tarp bungies through the mid-sail reefing kringles. Works ok and worst case, if I forget to take them out they'll pop loose on their own. Probably wouldn't work for a long cruise though, unless you've got a bunch to replace the ones you launch overboard. :neutral: