This past weekend I went sailing with some friends on their catamaran (38 Lagoon). They are very new to sailing so I was trying to help them out. The set up on their boat was very different from any boat that I had ever been on before. Their sail flakes down into a canvas cradle that has lines that run up to the mast to hold it up. I know I have heard the name for this but I don't recall it right now. As we were hoisting the sail, the battens of the sail kept catching on the lines that were holding the canvas so we had to stop several times lower the sail a little bit and then try again. We finally got it within about 6 feet from the top and I started to have major resistance on the halyard. In fact I was unable to get it up the last two feet. Now the other thing about the sail is that it has 2 reef points that can be set from the cockpit. Each line run through a jam cleat, through the boom, and around a block at the end of the sail. These reef lines also would catch around the battens as the sail was going up. Having no experience with a set up like this myself and the new owners are new to sailing I'm afraid that the sail trim was not the best. (Had to rig a makeshift cunningham) My first question is when raising the sail on this type of set up do you need to open the jam cleats on the reefing lines so that they run free as the sail is being raised? If they were closed would that possibly be causing the resistance that we were having in getting the main all the way up? My second question is does anyone have a suggestion regarding the battens getting caught on the cradle lines and the reefing lines as it's being raised? If these questions seem stupid I apologize. As I said this was a new experience for me and the owners are totally new to the boat and to sailing. Thank you for any help you might be able to give me.
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Getting unstuck
The reefing lines should be slack when the sail is fully up. Then just do not "tidy up" the reef tails and all that slack will be on the deck or (sigh) in your face at the boom end. You can throw it over the boom and secure it with a sail tie. Then when you rase the sail again there should be no problem from the reefing pendantants. The lazy jacks catching the battens is a design issue. My bet is there are three (pair) or lines attaching to the boom when there should be four. The longer the boom or the more battens you have require more lines to keep things gong smoothly.
The reefing lines should be slack when the sail is fully up. Then just do not "tidy up" the reef tails and all that slack will be on the deck or (sigh) in your face at the boom end. You can throw it over the boom and secure it with a sail tie. Then when you rase the sail again there should be no problem from the reefing pendantants. The lazy jacks catching the battens is a design issue. My bet is there are three (pair) or lines attaching to the boom when there should be four. The longer the boom or the more battens you have require more lines to keep things gong smoothly.
Battens getting caught
I have this problem from time to time. The solution is to hoist the main while directly into the wind. Make sure the mainsheet is slack, and the thre traveller centered. While one person hoists the main, another should be looking up the leach to make sure that it is centered between the lazy jacks, and moving the boom from side to side as necessary to make sure each batten clears in turn. Easy once you know to do it this way. As for the reef lines, they will prevent you from hoisting the main unless they can run freely. Most reef lines have a lot of friction, and you should make sure that there is lots of slack or the hoisting job will be very difficult, as you esperienced.
I have this problem from time to time. The solution is to hoist the main while directly into the wind. Make sure the mainsheet is slack, and the thre traveller centered. While one person hoists the main, another should be looking up the leach to make sure that it is centered between the lazy jacks, and moving the boom from side to side as necessary to make sure each batten clears in turn. Easy once you know to do it this way. As for the reef lines, they will prevent you from hoisting the main unless they can run freely. Most reef lines have a lot of friction, and you should make sure that there is lots of slack or the hoisting job will be very difficult, as you esperienced.
Lazy Jacks ... again ... (sigh)
Why are the lazy jacks set up when *raising* the sail? Lazy jacks are intended to control the sail when lowering *NOT* when hoisting. The only way to get a batten caught in a lazy jack when hoisting the main is if you are not using them correctly. Once the sail is down and flaked properly the lazy jacks are not needed until the next time you *drop* the sail. They should be stowed at the mast while hoisting or sailing. They cannot snag a batten if they are at the mast. They cannot chafe the sail if they are at the mast while underway.
Why are the lazy jacks set up when *raising* the sail? Lazy jacks are intended to control the sail when lowering *NOT* when hoisting. The only way to get a batten caught in a lazy jack when hoisting the main is if you are not using them correctly. Once the sail is down and flaked properly the lazy jacks are not needed until the next time you *drop* the sail. They should be stowed at the mast while hoisting or sailing. They cannot snag a batten if they are at the mast. They cannot chafe the sail if they are at the mast while underway.
Thanks everyone
Thanks everyone for the input. As this was the first time since the delivery captain brought the boat up from Florida, that the sail has been out I was not aware of where the reef lines were set. It actually occurred to me after we were back that the lines might be part of their problem. I had alway thought that Lazy jacks were attached to the sails not the sail bag. (hence my clumsy description
) That too was something new to me, my experience has been with the traditional sail ties and cover, or in mast furling. We were head into the wind when trying to raise the sail and the boom was centered but we did have quite a bit of wind and as it was going up the sail was starting to luff a little and would swing the batten into the the attachment lines of the sail bag. (I guess that would be the lazy jacks) Thank you gentlemen, you have taken me to school and I will try to pass what I have learned onto my friends! I don't have much experience with catamarans and the folks that bought this boat don't have much experience at all *yks so your help is greatly appreciated. Please add any further comments I am always continuing my quest to become a better sailor.;D
Thanks everyone for the input. As this was the first time since the delivery captain brought the boat up from Florida, that the sail has been out I was not aware of where the reef lines were set. It actually occurred to me after we were back that the lines might be part of their problem. I had alway thought that Lazy jacks were attached to the sails not the sail bag. (hence my clumsy description
) That too was something new to me, my experience has been with the traditional sail ties and cover, or in mast furling. We were head into the wind when trying to raise the sail and the boom was centered but we did have quite a bit of wind and as it was going up the sail was starting to luff a little and would swing the batten into the the attachment lines of the sail bag. (I guess that would be the lazy jacks) Thank you gentlemen, you have taken me to school and I will try to pass what I have learned onto my friends! I don't have much experience with catamarans and the folks that bought this boat don't have much experience at all *yks so your help is greatly appreciated. Please add any further comments I am always continuing my quest to become a better sailor.;D
Bigger the boat, bigger the pain ....
a good friend has a 380 Sea-n-Stars out of Cape Canaveral. I've got 1500+ miles on it. There is no easy way to raise the sail. This is a big boat with the boom running half over a canvas bimini. The lazy jacks are too much trouble to move and after you have raised the sail a half dozen times ... it is really not all that hard to keep the full battens clear. The guy raising has to talk to the helmsman while winching this sail through. The main doesn't need to be centered, and if it floats a little that's fine ... as long as you are going somewhat up wind. Once you know what the problem can be, you justify it as "skill" to make it work. The reefing lines are hung on the bulkhead directly behind the cam cleats. I don't like having both reef lines in ... especially when normal sailing will never use the second one. Unfortunately, to get the sail back into the cover somewhat neatly, tightening up the reef lines does the job to pull the sail to the end of the boom. or you can try to walk on the bimini frame ... which is not easy. The only problem is when raising the sail you are moving each reefing line through a lot of blocks. The lines are uncleated when raising and you have to make sure both are running clear. You could just let the reefing lines hang and not retrieve them when dropping the sail ... but they have a tendancy to snag on things. so most people put up with the hard winch job. I don't think many of our group would understand winching hard for at least five minutes to get this sail up ... but that may be what it takes. It is a big heavy sail. The boat is 22 ft. wide with queen berths on both sides. also keep an eye on the boom vang as it may be too tight to hoist the sail to the top. Just don't expect anything on this boat to be easy. The running lines can have a lot of pressure on them. Next step for you would be to fly the Spin ... We did a 10 hour run on it one night. This is not a quick spin around the harbor boat ... more a 100 mile overnighter. Vic "Seven"
a good friend has a 380 Sea-n-Stars out of Cape Canaveral. I've got 1500+ miles on it. There is no easy way to raise the sail. This is a big boat with the boom running half over a canvas bimini. The lazy jacks are too much trouble to move and after you have raised the sail a half dozen times ... it is really not all that hard to keep the full battens clear. The guy raising has to talk to the helmsman while winching this sail through. The main doesn't need to be centered, and if it floats a little that's fine ... as long as you are going somewhat up wind. Once you know what the problem can be, you justify it as "skill" to make it work. The reefing lines are hung on the bulkhead directly behind the cam cleats. I don't like having both reef lines in ... especially when normal sailing will never use the second one. Unfortunately, to get the sail back into the cover somewhat neatly, tightening up the reef lines does the job to pull the sail to the end of the boom. or you can try to walk on the bimini frame ... which is not easy. The only problem is when raising the sail you are moving each reefing line through a lot of blocks. The lines are uncleated when raising and you have to make sure both are running clear. You could just let the reefing lines hang and not retrieve them when dropping the sail ... but they have a tendancy to snag on things. so most people put up with the hard winch job. I don't think many of our group would understand winching hard for at least five minutes to get this sail up ... but that may be what it takes. It is a big heavy sail. The boat is 22 ft. wide with queen berths on both sides. also keep an eye on the boom vang as it may be too tight to hoist the sail to the top. Just don't expect anything on this boat to be easy. The running lines can have a lot of pressure on them. Next step for you would be to fly the Spin ... We did a 10 hour run on it one night. This is not a quick spin around the harbor boat ... more a 100 mile overnighter. Vic "Seven"
Lazy Jacks when hoisting
I would just add that I like having the lazy jacks up when hoisting. I can take the sail ties off without the main spilling off the boom. This gives me time between taking off sail ties and actually hoisting the main. Avoiding and/or clearing snagged battens may or may not be difficult depending on the design. I also leave the lazy jacks up when sailing. Originally, I left them them up just when single-handing but now I leave them up all the time. They're ready to go and I can drop the main in a hurry. The lazy jack lines can be loose enough to not interfere with sail shape (again, depending on design, I suppose). I would suggest people just try all the options many times to see what works for them. kak - make note of Vic's comment about uncleating the boom vang (along with the main) when hoisting the main. This applies when putting in a reef too, or you might not get the reef point (clew) close enough to the boom. I was just on a 37' boat where we couldn't get the boom to swing all the way out for a broad reach when the vang was too tight. ...RickM...
I would just add that I like having the lazy jacks up when hoisting. I can take the sail ties off without the main spilling off the boom. This gives me time between taking off sail ties and actually hoisting the main. Avoiding and/or clearing snagged battens may or may not be difficult depending on the design. I also leave the lazy jacks up when sailing. Originally, I left them them up just when single-handing but now I leave them up all the time. They're ready to go and I can drop the main in a hurry. The lazy jack lines can be loose enough to not interfere with sail shape (again, depending on design, I suppose). I would suggest people just try all the options many times to see what works for them. kak - make note of Vic's comment about uncleating the boom vang (along with the main) when hoisting the main. This applies when putting in a reef too, or you might not get the reef point (clew) close enough to the boom. I was just on a 37' boat where we couldn't get the boom to swing all the way out for a broad reach when the vang was too tight. ...RickM...
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