Redundant navigation lights

Ted

Ted

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Jan 26, 2005
1,255
C&C 110 Bay Shore, Long Island, NY
Is it illegal or confusing to to other boaters to display deck level navigation lights and a tri-color masthead light at the same time? My boat has both but I don't use them at the same time. Just wondering if displaying redundant navigation lights would be a problem.
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
One of the other. That's the rule.

Both would look like two boats.
 
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uncledom

uncledom

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Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
Ted, I'm pretty sure it's against COLREGs to display duel sets of lights although it isn't worded exactly that way. I will try to find it.
 
Parsons

Parsons

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Jul 12, 2011
1,165
Leopard 40 Jupiter, Florida
It's confusing because from another boat you look like something else. USCG has an excellent on-line tool for the ColRegs, with illustrated lights at http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesContent
As you can see, if another boat sees your port side, and you have both a top and bottom red light, you are broadcasting that you are Not under Command .... "red over red, lost my head" or if you have your steaming light on (white) that you are Restricted in your ability to maneuver. - both definitions under Rule 27.
Green-over-green doesn't have another meaning, except that you don't know the rules. White-over-white at the stern could be mistaken for a towing light from ahead under Rule 24, except there would be no side lights.
Although these are in the Federal Register, I've not heard of the USCG stopping people and giving out citations for bad lights, unless you are a commercial vessel, or they are particularly bored. I have heard of local harbor police giving local citations for not displaying anchor lights, but those are more for personal preservation so I always make sure I'm very compliant and obvious.
 
Roland5048

Roland5048

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May 12, 2004
1,505
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
Yes, illegal to use both at the same time. The mast head tri-color is normally used while sailing off shore as to be able to be seen when in a trough and can also be seen from much further. Deck lights are used when motoring and, usually, near shore but, I don't believe there is any rule prohibiting the use of the tri-color near shore if you are under sail only.
 
C

Capt jgw

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Feb 8, 2014
1,300
Columbia 36 Muskegon
Roland5048 said:
Yes, illegal to use both at the same time. The mast head tri-color is normally used while sailing off shore as to be able to be seen when in a trough and can also be seen from much further. Deck lights are used when motoring and, usually, near shore but, I don't believe there is any rule prohibiting the use of the tri-color near shore if you are under sail only.
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Right. The Rules don't care where you are sailing, they just say you may use the tricolor only when sailing (no engine). I don't have a tricolor on my current boat, but did on a previous one. When I'm inshore or an otherwise congested area, I prefer to use the deck level lights. I think they're more likely to be seen there than one way up in the air. Offshore, the tricolor not only can be seen farther off, but as the boat rolls and pitches the light swings back and forth much more than deck lights would. Kind of like waving a flag at a bull, it gets their attention more than a stationary light would.
 
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Roland5048

Roland5048

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May 12, 2004
1,505
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
I also, kinda, remember that I heard or read somewhere that the tri-color light is not to be used inshore or inside the Line of Demarcation. Might have been on the captain's test or I may have just made that up. Anyway, as Capt jgw said, the deck lights are easier to see in close quarters
 
Ted

Ted

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Jan 26, 2005
1,255
C&C 110 Bay Shore, Long Island, NY
I'm clear about which lights have to be displayed and the reason to use the masthead as opposed to the deck height navigation lights. I just can't seem to locate the specific COLREG prohibiting their use together. I would have thought it would be a significant point. Time to re-read the lighting section again without falling asleep.
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Roland5048 said:
I also, kinda, remember that I heard or read somewhere that the tri-color light is not to be used inshore or inside the Line of Demarcation. Might have been on the captain's test or I may have just made that up. Anyway, as Capt jgw said, the deck lights are easier to see in close quarters
Click to expand
I'm pretty sure there is no rule that mandates one or the other, or at certain times. If there was, all boats would have to have both sets, when in fact that is very rare.

My First 260 case only with mast top
My First 36.7 came only with hull light (mast top added)
 
C

Capt jgw

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Feb 8, 2014
1,300
Columbia 36 Muskegon
Rule 25 (b) (pages 60-61 in the 2014 book) reads:
"In a sailing vessel of less than 20 meters in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of the Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen". So they're talking about only one set of lights, they can be at the deck or the mast top, but not both. And when you start your engine, you're no longer a sailing vessel so the lights for a power vessel are required, and they must be mounted at the deck or super structure (Rule 23).
Also Rule 25 says. "may" which means it's completely optional. Which is why most boats don't have them.
 
Roland5048

Roland5048

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May 12, 2004
1,505
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
Jackdaw said:
I'm pretty sure there is no rule that mandates one or the other, or at certain times. If there was, all boats would have to have both sets, when in fact that is very rare.
Click to expand
That is correct. I added my tri-color years ago as the mast was already down and we were doing some re-wiring, anyway.
 
Roland5048

Roland5048

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May 12, 2004
1,505
Hunter Cherubini 30 New Port Richey
Roland5048 said:
I also, kinda, remember that I heard or read somewhere that the tri-color light is not to be used inshore or inside the Line of Demarcation. Might have been on the captain's test or I may have just made that up. Anyway, as Capt jgw said, the deck lights are easier to see in close quarters
Click to expand
Evidently, I must have just made that up as the tri-color is allowed inshore according to the inland rules. That would make sense as the Great Lakes are definitely inshore and they are allowed there. The only restrictions I can find is that they are not to be used together and the tri-color cannot be used while under motor even if motor-sailing.
 
Joe

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,005
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
What line of Demarcation?......I thought if you were west of that line you had to speak Spanish.... east - Portuguese. Magellan tried to outwit the catholic church when he crossed that line. So.... confusing the world with multiple running lights could be called "magellanistic":hook2:
 
J

JohnShannon

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Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
Leaving SF bay on the chart #18645 there is a line between Lands End and Point Bonita it says "Colregs Demarcation Line" Local belief seems to be oceanside of that line masthead is OK inside that line it isn't but coasties won't bust you cause a least you have lights
 
C

Capt jgw

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Feb 8, 2014
1,300
Columbia 36 Muskegon
The tricolor light is prescribed in both the International and Inland Rules, so it's valid on either side of the line. Location makes no difference.
 
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