I was thinking about replacing the counter in the Oday 22 I just bought. The boat was in so so shape and had been sitting uncovered outside for about 3 years. So needless to say I am spending a good amount of time drying the boat out and replacing some wooden parts of the boat. Does anyone happen to have any plans for such a project? Or maybe any ideas on materials to use? This is my first boat and am relying on my handiness to get me through this. Thanks.
Redoing counter and cabinets
- Thread starter David ONeill
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patience
I suggest that you delay any significant remodeling for a year. This old maxim applies to houses as well as boats.
I suggest that you delay any significant remodeling for a year. This old maxim applies to houses as well as boats.
Why wait?
angerman Can you please explain your reasoning behind waiting. I redid mine after it had been in the water a few times. I am glad I did. It is much nicer to sail on a clean comfortable boat. K
angerman Can you please explain your reasoning behind waiting. I redid mine after it had been in the water a few times. I am glad I did. It is much nicer to sail on a clean comfortable boat. K
Bigger Job than it Appears?
Can't say for sure on the 22, but on my 25, this is a much bigger job than it appears. I completely gutted my 25 recently, and was surprised to find how the galley was assembled. I removed every screw I could easily see, and it still wouldn't come apart. I stuck my head under the galley, and found a bunch more and removed them. This was no easy job. Look at the galley cabinet hatch, and imagine a 240 lb 6'0" guy sticking the arms in there blindly unscrewing a bunch of screws, then sticking his head back in to find more, and repeating - about a dozen times. I finally got every screw I could find out of it, and it STILL didn't come off...!!! I finally just took my pry bar and started pulling wood (I was planning on rebuilding anyway, I just wanted to minimize damage so I could use the old stuff as a pattern). After pulling one of the cabinet sides, I found the reason for my frustration. Apparently, O'Day installed the wood for the galley, including screws screwed in downwards from the counter top into the sides of the cabinets. Then they covered the galley top with plastic laminate (Formica). This covered the screws. Bottom line is, it's a worthy project, but VERY involved. I suspect that was the reason for the "patience" recommendation. Sail the boat for a few months, then decide what REALLY needs to be changed. I owned my O'Day 25 for 3 years before I started this, and then the compelling reason to go ahead and start was rotted bulkehads. When I pulled them, I decided to just go ahead and remodel everything.
Can't say for sure on the 22, but on my 25, this is a much bigger job than it appears. I completely gutted my 25 recently, and was surprised to find how the galley was assembled. I removed every screw I could easily see, and it still wouldn't come apart. I stuck my head under the galley, and found a bunch more and removed them. This was no easy job. Look at the galley cabinet hatch, and imagine a 240 lb 6'0" guy sticking the arms in there blindly unscrewing a bunch of screws, then sticking his head back in to find more, and repeating - about a dozen times. I finally got every screw I could find out of it, and it STILL didn't come off...!!! I finally just took my pry bar and started pulling wood (I was planning on rebuilding anyway, I just wanted to minimize damage so I could use the old stuff as a pattern). After pulling one of the cabinet sides, I found the reason for my frustration. Apparently, O'Day installed the wood for the galley, including screws screwed in downwards from the counter top into the sides of the cabinets. Then they covered the galley top with plastic laminate (Formica). This covered the screws. Bottom line is, it's a worthy project, but VERY involved. I suspect that was the reason for the "patience" recommendation. Sail the boat for a few months, then decide what REALLY needs to be changed. I owned my O'Day 25 for 3 years before I started this, and then the compelling reason to go ahead and start was rotted bulkehads. When I pulled them, I decided to just go ahead and remodel everything.
I did the same thing to my 25
but I'm 5'10" and 185 8). what i did with mine was use the old parts as patterns. The wood on my boat was in pretty bad shape, so I did it all at one time. Herb. How is the table coming along? If you have some pictures, send them to me. I'll send you another email. Crawford
but I'm 5'10" and 185 8). what i did with mine was use the old parts as patterns. The wood on my boat was in pretty bad shape, so I did it all at one time. Herb. How is the table coming along? If you have some pictures, send them to me. I'll send you another email. Crawford
Table
Table's not finished, but it's coming along (I sent you an email). I don't have pics yet, but will put them together when I finish it up. I'm taking it kind of slow because I had to work on issues with the Coronado (it's on Lake Pontchartrain), also spent a week doing some volunteer work there. On top of that, I'm doing multiple projects on the O'Day at the same time. Still working on the bulkheads (the center buklheads are in place, as well as new chainplates, but the forward smaller ones aren't, nor is the aft gally bulkhead), built new companionway hatch boards (they turned out great), and got the chainplates finished and the mast up. Finally, since the boat is now sailable, I have to get in my regular 2-3 times sailing each week, and a few to make up for all the missed time while the mast was down. Been a busy time, but the boat's beginning to look great. There's this mixed set of feelings after you've repaired a boat that was dismasted. On the one hand, it's a great sense of accomplishment and pride. On the other hand, you look at the mast and wonder if you really are good enough to have done it so it doesn't come down again. Know what I mean?
Table's not finished, but it's coming along (I sent you an email). I don't have pics yet, but will put them together when I finish it up. I'm taking it kind of slow because I had to work on issues with the Coronado (it's on Lake Pontchartrain), also spent a week doing some volunteer work there. On top of that, I'm doing multiple projects on the O'Day at the same time. Still working on the bulkheads (the center buklheads are in place, as well as new chainplates, but the forward smaller ones aren't, nor is the aft gally bulkhead), built new companionway hatch boards (they turned out great), and got the chainplates finished and the mast up. Finally, since the boat is now sailable, I have to get in my regular 2-3 times sailing each week, and a few to make up for all the missed time while the mast was down. Been a busy time, but the boat's beginning to look great. There's this mixed set of feelings after you've repaired a boat that was dismasted. On the one hand, it's a great sense of accomplishment and pride. On the other hand, you look at the mast and wonder if you really are good enough to have done it so it doesn't come down again. Know what I mean?
Galley Slave
My 22 has the standard old galley and is in need of something. Just what to do remains to be found out! The biggest complain I have is that getting to the sink involves sitting on the berth twisted backwards to reach the sink which hides under the deck cove. And all this while working the ruddy hand pump at the sink faucet. Step one for me is a foot pump. I saw those hand free knee blades in hospital scrub sinks and loved them. So I plan to start off with a foot pump and then go form there. I may (gumption not withstanding!) relocate the sink towards the center more on the countertop and put a small ice box in it's place. The stove niche (a collect-all for junk really) would have to go away and I would need to set up a spot for the stove elsewhere on some sort of a pull-out of stow-away arrangement. The stove's hardly used anymore. It's the sink and the ice box that's more important now. But reading what one needs to do to remove the ruddy things makes me wonder. I have a long, cold winter ahead to ponder the subject! I'll try to post pics if I can figure out how to when possible. Stay warm and dry! Stu "Karakahl" 1979 O'day 22 CB Centerport
My 22 has the standard old galley and is in need of something. Just what to do remains to be found out! The biggest complain I have is that getting to the sink involves sitting on the berth twisted backwards to reach the sink which hides under the deck cove. And all this while working the ruddy hand pump at the sink faucet. Step one for me is a foot pump. I saw those hand free knee blades in hospital scrub sinks and loved them. So I plan to start off with a foot pump and then go form there. I may (gumption not withstanding!) relocate the sink towards the center more on the countertop and put a small ice box in it's place. The stove niche (a collect-all for junk really) would have to go away and I would need to set up a spot for the stove elsewhere on some sort of a pull-out of stow-away arrangement. The stove's hardly used anymore. It's the sink and the ice box that's more important now. But reading what one needs to do to remove the ruddy things makes me wonder. I have a long, cold winter ahead to ponder the subject! I'll try to post pics if I can figure out how to when possible. Stay warm and dry! Stu "Karakahl" 1979 O'day 22 CB Centerport
Sink Relocation
Stu. I like your idea of putting in an ice box and relocation the sink. I have seen a picture of a 72 and the sink was accross from the head on the starboard side. It looked like it was factory too. This version had a cusion at the same level as the port satee where the counter would go. I don't know what they had for a sotve. Sofar, we have only used ours for day outings and the sink is very important. I have a little cooler that slides under the coclpit deck below the companion way. I put in new counter tops and put the sink which wasn't installed back about where it was. I don't have water pump yet. I am not sure there is really room for a foot pump. I do like the idea though. I think I could get buy with a one burner stove. I don't have a stove yet, but will need one when we start doing overnighters. As far as the stove nice being a collect all, I couln't agree more. However, If I put a stove in there what will I do for storage. All of the stuff in there is important. I think I am going to have to get creative and build some racks or shelves I have seen. Speaking of pull out stoves, have you seen the ones on the O'day 23? Both the sink and the sotve are pull out. Good luck with what ever you decide to do. I hope you can post them so we can see. Kevin 1973 O'day 22 Shoal Keel, trailer sailer
Stu. I like your idea of putting in an ice box and relocation the sink. I have seen a picture of a 72 and the sink was accross from the head on the starboard side. It looked like it was factory too. This version had a cusion at the same level as the port satee where the counter would go. I don't know what they had for a sotve. Sofar, we have only used ours for day outings and the sink is very important. I have a little cooler that slides under the coclpit deck below the companion way. I put in new counter tops and put the sink which wasn't installed back about where it was. I don't have water pump yet. I am not sure there is really room for a foot pump. I do like the idea though. I think I could get buy with a one burner stove. I don't have a stove yet, but will need one when we start doing overnighters. As far as the stove nice being a collect all, I couln't agree more. However, If I put a stove in there what will I do for storage. All of the stuff in there is important. I think I am going to have to get creative and build some racks or shelves I have seen. Speaking of pull out stoves, have you seen the ones on the O'day 23? Both the sink and the sotve are pull out. Good luck with what ever you decide to do. I hope you can post them so we can see. Kevin 1973 O'day 22 Shoal Keel, trailer sailer
Galley Slave -2
Hi Kevin; My 22 footer has the galley against the bulkhead seperating the front vee berth from the "salon". The 23 has the galley as a slide out under the companionway I believe. I have no room for a slide out unless it slid out on one of the quarterberths either side of the "salon". The boat came with a single-burner butane stove that produced strong odors and soot. I replaced it with a Coleman 2-burner camp stove that uses little bottles of LP. I also have a lantern that uses the same bottles. It's cheap, clean and easy to use. The stove packs away easily when not used, and I usually stow it aft on the port quarterberth with a bunch of other gallye things in a crate. I use the stove on overnights to make hot water while cooking breakfast. Having two burners is a plus, but certainly not a necessity. I do hope to do some creative cooking in the future while afloat. I'm even toying around with the notion of putting in an auxilary water tank under the port quarterberth. The deadweight will offset the cant that the 9.9 hp motor gives on the starboard side. I sail solo so the balanced weight will help stabilize the boat somewhat. It will hinder things in light airs as well! Just thoughts - not many answeres however! I have not yet configured proper galley storage, and I'm debating the worth of plate racks and what not with a galley in a space that I can only occupy while kneeling or sitting. The downside of propane is the emissions are not good - good ventilation is a must! I always have the companionway opened and the forward hatch raised when using the stove. I'll be glad to share with you whatever (and if ever) I can get something going. Stay warm and dry! Stu "Karakahl" 1979 O'day 22 CB Centerport
Hi Kevin; My 22 footer has the galley against the bulkhead seperating the front vee berth from the "salon". The 23 has the galley as a slide out under the companionway I believe. I have no room for a slide out unless it slid out on one of the quarterberths either side of the "salon". The boat came with a single-burner butane stove that produced strong odors and soot. I replaced it with a Coleman 2-burner camp stove that uses little bottles of LP. I also have a lantern that uses the same bottles. It's cheap, clean and easy to use. The stove packs away easily when not used, and I usually stow it aft on the port quarterberth with a bunch of other gallye things in a crate. I use the stove on overnights to make hot water while cooking breakfast. Having two burners is a plus, but certainly not a necessity. I do hope to do some creative cooking in the future while afloat. I'm even toying around with the notion of putting in an auxilary water tank under the port quarterberth. The deadweight will offset the cant that the 9.9 hp motor gives on the starboard side. I sail solo so the balanced weight will help stabilize the boat somewhat. It will hinder things in light airs as well! Just thoughts - not many answeres however! I have not yet configured proper galley storage, and I'm debating the worth of plate racks and what not with a galley in a space that I can only occupy while kneeling or sitting. The downside of propane is the emissions are not good - good ventilation is a must! I always have the companionway opened and the forward hatch raised when using the stove. I'll be glad to share with you whatever (and if ever) I can get something going. Stay warm and dry! Stu "Karakahl" 1979 O'day 22 CB Centerport
Please DO NOT USE PROPANE!
Please re-consider the use of Propane in a boat! Propane is heavier then air, and sinks to the bottom of the boat and into the bilge spaces. The only way to get it out is to "blow" it out with a high volume fan or a blower. The gas will occumulate over time in the bilges and can, and will cause an explosion. A good friend of mine had a propane stove installed by a professional gas man. Over a period of six months, the "spill" from the stove reached the critical "mass" and exploded. He suffered 3rd degree burns over 90% of his body. I don't think that I need to tell you what the rest of his life was like. There are alternative fuels for stoves, including Compressed Natural Gas, which is lighter then air and floats away in case of a spill. If you cannot find a local CNG dealer, go on the internet, you will find many systems for bottling the gas yourself, if you have gas running to your home. Propane people do not like me, but propane is not a safe fuel in confined spaces. This is a fact, no matter what they say. One burned man or woman is one too manhy! It is great for a barbeque in the back yard, unless you have it in a depression in the ground. Best of luck to you! Paul "Fine As Frog's Hair" PS I may have some remodeling to do on my 1977 22. Hurricane Wilma tore the fore-hatch off and the interior of the boat is soaked. Unfortunately, I had to leave before I could do anything about it. The hatch is taped on it so no more water will get in, but I have not removed the water yet.
Please re-consider the use of Propane in a boat! Propane is heavier then air, and sinks to the bottom of the boat and into the bilge spaces. The only way to get it out is to "blow" it out with a high volume fan or a blower. The gas will occumulate over time in the bilges and can, and will cause an explosion. A good friend of mine had a propane stove installed by a professional gas man. Over a period of six months, the "spill" from the stove reached the critical "mass" and exploded. He suffered 3rd degree burns over 90% of his body. I don't think that I need to tell you what the rest of his life was like. There are alternative fuels for stoves, including Compressed Natural Gas, which is lighter then air and floats away in case of a spill. If you cannot find a local CNG dealer, go on the internet, you will find many systems for bottling the gas yourself, if you have gas running to your home. Propane people do not like me, but propane is not a safe fuel in confined spaces. This is a fact, no matter what they say. One burned man or woman is one too manhy! It is great for a barbeque in the back yard, unless you have it in a depression in the ground. Best of luck to you! Paul "Fine As Frog's Hair" PS I may have some remodeling to do on my 1977 22. Hurricane Wilma tore the fore-hatch off and the interior of the boat is soaked. Unfortunately, I had to leave before I could do anything about it. The hatch is taped on it so no more water will get in, but I have not removed the water yet.
Please DO NOT RACE YOUR BOAT!
I read a book about this race near England, and 17 people DIED. And some of these were seasoned, experienced sailors! One senseless death from racing a sailboat is one too many. Besides, we all know what an oxymoron it is to say "sailboat" and "race" in one sentence - it's like a beauty contest among ugly women. There are SO many better, safer, and even faster ways to race. I've NEVER heard of 17 people dying in a NASCAR race, and they go much faster. Shoot, no one EVER died in any of the soapbox derby races I was in as a kid, and they went much faster than my boat. Seriously folks. Yes, propane is more dangerous than some other fuels, but it most definitely can be used safely, IF a person has it installed properly, then also installs the appropriate sensors.
I read a book about this race near England, and 17 people DIED. And some of these were seasoned, experienced sailors! One senseless death from racing a sailboat is one too many. Besides, we all know what an oxymoron it is to say "sailboat" and "race" in one sentence - it's like a beauty contest among ugly women. There are SO many better, safer, and even faster ways to race. I've NEVER heard of 17 people dying in a NASCAR race, and they go much faster. Shoot, no one EVER died in any of the soapbox derby races I was in as a kid, and they went much faster than my boat. Seriously folks. Yes, propane is more dangerous than some other fuels, but it most definitely can be used safely, IF a person has it installed properly, then also installs the appropriate sensors.
Your Analogy Sucks!
Herb Parsons, your analogy sucks! So does your sense of humor, or the lack there of. Why don't you tell Hank Graber's widow and his orphan children how safe Propane is on a sail boat? In fact, why don't you tell the 743 people who were hurt in Propane gas explosions on their boats in 2004. Sticking your head in the sand does not make the problem go away! The "super snooper" sensor device, which is about the only effective sensor for propane costs nearly $300.00. For that you can purchase three or four set ups for NCG bottling. I have no alterior motives. The fact is that propane can kill in confined spaces! A 22ft sail boat is just such a confined space! Why risk a life or limb when there are as good, if not better, alternatives! Paul "Fine As Frog's Hair!"
Herb Parsons, your analogy sucks! So does your sense of humor, or the lack there of. Why don't you tell Hank Graber's widow and his orphan children how safe Propane is on a sail boat? In fact, why don't you tell the 743 people who were hurt in Propane gas explosions on their boats in 2004. Sticking your head in the sand does not make the problem go away! The "super snooper" sensor device, which is about the only effective sensor for propane costs nearly $300.00. For that you can purchase three or four set ups for NCG bottling. I have no alterior motives. The fact is that propane can kill in confined spaces! A 22ft sail boat is just such a confined space! Why risk a life or limb when there are as good, if not better, alternatives! Paul "Fine As Frog's Hair!"
Ulterior Motives
Your opinion is noted, but your assertion that my analogy "sucks" was not addressed. The analogy is very apt. There were widows in the Fastnet race as well. Don Casey (who I KNOW has far more experience than I in boat, and I suspect more experience than you) in his book 100 Fast and Easy Boat Projects describes how to make a storage device for the small propane cannisters mentioned below. In his book This Old Boat, he describes in detail how to safely use propane, including building a propane locker that floods overboard instead of in the bilge, and installing propane detectors (BTW, I saw one on eBay earlier this week that went for $30, new, in the box. I almost bought it for my Coronado 35, but not that far into the refurb yet, I WILL be using propane, I assume there's no need to invite you sailing?). You missed my point completely, in your emotional outburst. A MUCH better suggestion would have been to take all of the necessary precautions if using propane. As far as my "sense of humor", I wasn't using humor, it was sarcasm, sorry you didn't enjoy it. Maybe others will. You WILL note; however, that I (unlike you) offered the original poster some advice that had something to do with his initial question. BTW, you misspelled "ulterior" (as in "ulterior motive"). In spite of your passion on the subject, propane can be safely used. Obviously, it wasn't in your friend's case. Boats can be safely sailed, yet people still die. Finally, in spite of your assertions to the ready availability of CNG, I can go to WalMart, the local sporting goods store, even the local grocery store in my area, and buy propane. I can't do the same with CNG. Finally, every negative you can say about the possible dangers of propane exist for gasoline - including the fact that there is a safer, and better alternative; yet boaters continue to use gasoline engines rather than diesel.
Your opinion is noted, but your assertion that my analogy "sucks" was not addressed. The analogy is very apt. There were widows in the Fastnet race as well. Don Casey (who I KNOW has far more experience than I in boat, and I suspect more experience than you) in his book 100 Fast and Easy Boat Projects describes how to make a storage device for the small propane cannisters mentioned below. In his book This Old Boat, he describes in detail how to safely use propane, including building a propane locker that floods overboard instead of in the bilge, and installing propane detectors (BTW, I saw one on eBay earlier this week that went for $30, new, in the box. I almost bought it for my Coronado 35, but not that far into the refurb yet, I WILL be using propane, I assume there's no need to invite you sailing?). You missed my point completely, in your emotional outburst. A MUCH better suggestion would have been to take all of the necessary precautions if using propane. As far as my "sense of humor", I wasn't using humor, it was sarcasm, sorry you didn't enjoy it. Maybe others will. You WILL note; however, that I (unlike you) offered the original poster some advice that had something to do with his initial question. BTW, you misspelled "ulterior" (as in "ulterior motive"). In spite of your passion on the subject, propane can be safely used. Obviously, it wasn't in your friend's case. Boats can be safely sailed, yet people still die. Finally, in spite of your assertions to the ready availability of CNG, I can go to WalMart, the local sporting goods store, even the local grocery store in my area, and buy propane. I can't do the same with CNG. Finally, every negative you can say about the possible dangers of propane exist for gasoline - including the fact that there is a safer, and better alternative; yet boaters continue to use gasoline engines rather than diesel.
Florida vs. Texas
Honestly guys. Both of your opinions are important and have validity. The greatest thing about this site is the ability to share information. If someone feels strongly about a safety issue then he should write about it and let us decide if the information is of value. If we get blasted for writhing it, then we might have a tendency to avoid doing so. I just bought cheap propane stove the day before this was written. Because of what I have learned here, I will not use it inside the boat. Thanks you for that!!! Also, please don't beat me up if I miss-spell or act grammatically challenged. This is a great venue for information and networking. Thanks everyone for all of your help. Kevin 1973 O’day 22 Ford Ranger 4cyl 5spd. Microsoft spell checker!
Honestly guys. Both of your opinions are important and have validity. The greatest thing about this site is the ability to share information. If someone feels strongly about a safety issue then he should write about it and let us decide if the information is of value. If we get blasted for writhing it, then we might have a tendency to avoid doing so. I just bought cheap propane stove the day before this was written. Because of what I have learned here, I will not use it inside the boat. Thanks you for that!!! Also, please don't beat me up if I miss-spell or act grammatically challenged. This is a great venue for information and networking. Thanks everyone for all of your help. Kevin 1973 O’day 22 Ford Ranger 4cyl 5spd. Microsoft spell checker!
Extreme Views
Well put Kevin, and what you said empahsized what I was trying to say (see, I've never been accused of being a diplomat). Nothing wrong with saying there are dangers to using propane, and nothing wrong with an individual saying that he personally would never use it, that the risks and expense of making it safe enough to use just aren't worth it. However, to make a blanket statement that propane should never be used on a boat, to me at least, is akin to making a blanket statement that sailboats should never be raced. In other words, don't make blanket statements. List the dangers, possible solutions, and let others decide (as you have done.) The miseplling comment was tongue in cheek, much as the "DON'T RACE YOUR BOAT" comment.
Well put Kevin, and what you said empahsized what I was trying to say (see, I've never been accused of being a diplomat). Nothing wrong with saying there are dangers to using propane, and nothing wrong with an individual saying that he personally would never use it, that the risks and expense of making it safe enough to use just aren't worth it. However, to make a blanket statement that propane should never be used on a boat, to me at least, is akin to making a blanket statement that sailboats should never be raced. In other words, don't make blanket statements. List the dangers, possible solutions, and let others decide (as you have done.) The miseplling comment was tongue in cheek, much as the "DON'T RACE YOUR BOAT" comment.
I like Alcohol...
I use a pressurised alcohol stove... an old two burner Homestrand. The more modern, non-pressurised Origo's are easy to use, reliable and very common. The fuel is available at any hardware store... denatured alcohol. One disadvantage is less cooking heat. My coffee takes about twice as long to perk than when at home. Another is that it gives off heat and water vapor, which can fog your ports. The advantage is that the alcohol is not very volatile. Spilled alcohol burns with a weak blue flame, easily extinquished. I also use a non-pressurized Origo Boat Heat Pal heater for cold days and evenings... a nice safe, simple and economical space heater. As for Propane, I would not sail on a boat with it installed. And any gas inboard boat for that matter... I would check it out first, at least, for proper venting... and have done so. When I was a kid a family of five was blown up on a lake near me. When it is easy and possible to avoid the concern, why do it any other way? There is no over-riding advantage that I can see. Alcohol works, is cheap, is safe and available, so I would have no reason to take a chance with anything else. Rich.
I use a pressurised alcohol stove... an old two burner Homestrand. The more modern, non-pressurised Origo's are easy to use, reliable and very common. The fuel is available at any hardware store... denatured alcohol. One disadvantage is less cooking heat. My coffee takes about twice as long to perk than when at home. Another is that it gives off heat and water vapor, which can fog your ports. The advantage is that the alcohol is not very volatile. Spilled alcohol burns with a weak blue flame, easily extinquished. I also use a non-pressurized Origo Boat Heat Pal heater for cold days and evenings... a nice safe, simple and economical space heater. As for Propane, I would not sail on a boat with it installed. And any gas inboard boat for that matter... I would check it out first, at least, for proper venting... and have done so. When I was a kid a family of five was blown up on a lake near me. When it is easy and possible to avoid the concern, why do it any other way? There is no over-riding advantage that I can see. Alcohol works, is cheap, is safe and available, so I would have no reason to take a chance with anything else. Rich.
Stove fuel
I, too, prefer alcohol as a fuel despite the fact that it takes a little longer to heat things. I use products from Origo and Trangia that are simple and work well (both are Swedish, is that a coincidence?) The rationale behind using alcohol on boats that I found convincing is that alcohol fires can be extinguished with water (the one thing that is plentiful on a boat) where as kerosene, white gas and other petroleum based fuels call for a fire extinguisher since they float on top of water. Propane (and butane too?) appear to be more of an explosion risk than a spilled-fuel fire risk but what I don't understand is that if propane is really as dangerous as some of you say, how can it be that most new boats manufactured are equipped from the factory with a propane stove and oven. Companies as big as Catalina and Hunter could be considered pretty deep pockets from a standpoint of liability if these propane systems are truly unsafe even when designed and installed properly.
I, too, prefer alcohol as a fuel despite the fact that it takes a little longer to heat things. I use products from Origo and Trangia that are simple and work well (both are Swedish, is that a coincidence?) The rationale behind using alcohol on boats that I found convincing is that alcohol fires can be extinguished with water (the one thing that is plentiful on a boat) where as kerosene, white gas and other petroleum based fuels call for a fire extinguisher since they float on top of water. Propane (and butane too?) appear to be more of an explosion risk than a spilled-fuel fire risk but what I don't understand is that if propane is really as dangerous as some of you say, how can it be that most new boats manufactured are equipped from the factory with a propane stove and oven. Companies as big as Catalina and Hunter could be considered pretty deep pockets from a standpoint of liability if these propane systems are truly unsafe even when designed and installed properly.
Why Propane, when it is so dangerous?
I have been asking myself the same question? The fact is that the Propane Lobby and it's sales force have done an excellent job of selling what I would call, a dangerous product. Granted, new fume detectors and sparkless fume and vapour evauation systems have dropped in price significantly, and can be installed in a boat whose price already exceeds $50,000. $500 or $1000 in additional cost is just a drop in the bucket, when compared to the convenience. When some one famous or infamous falls victim to this dangerous product, may be every one will look at it again. Until then, I will continue to voice my opinion of it's dangers. Keep the wind in your sails! Paul "Fine As Frog's Hair"
I have been asking myself the same question? The fact is that the Propane Lobby and it's sales force have done an excellent job of selling what I would call, a dangerous product. Granted, new fume detectors and sparkless fume and vapour evauation systems have dropped in price significantly, and can be installed in a boat whose price already exceeds $50,000. $500 or $1000 in additional cost is just a drop in the bucket, when compared to the convenience. When some one famous or infamous falls victim to this dangerous product, may be every one will look at it again. Until then, I will continue to voice my opinion of it's dangers. Keep the wind in your sails! Paul "Fine As Frog's Hair"
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