My fresh water system for the sinks has been winterized for about seven years. I can see some mold or mildew growing in the clear lines. It has RV antifreeze throughout. The system consists of a 10 gallon tank, pump and a very small accumulator tank. It's plumbed to the sinks and would be used for hand washing only. Assuming everything works, is it feasible to recommission it or is there too much of a health risk?
Recomissioning fresh water system after 7 years?
- Thread starter Project_Mayhem
- Start date
I suspect the chlorine commissioning program identified by @Peggie Hall HeadMistress would be worth a try before you tear the system apart and rebuild.
10 gallons is such small tank that recommissioning the system would be more trouble than it's worth...plus, if that system has been winterized for 7 years, hoses that old have to have become hard,brittle and prone to cracking and splitting. So if it were mine, I'd replace the entire system with a tank big enough (at least 15 gal) to be worth maintaining and replace all the hoses, cuz it would be a shame to have fresh water on the boat without enough to at least be able to rinse out a coffee cup and/or wash your face and brush your teeth...and I strongly suspect that after you've owned the boat a while, you're likelyto want just a bit more creature compfort aboard that just water for hand washing. Plus, I doubt if you'd ever be able to get all the taste of the antifreeze out of the existing hoses.
Don't replace the clear hoses with more clear hoses...Trident has opaque water hose for a very reasonable price..and I'm not sure I'd even keep the accumulator in a system that small.
That's my $.02 worth anyway.
--Peggie
Don't replace the clear hoses with more clear hoses...Trident has opaque water hose for a very reasonable price..and I'm not sure I'd even keep the accumulator in a system that small.
That's my $.02 worth anyway.
--Peggie
Ditch the accumulated and get a Shurflo pump.
Propylene glycol is good bacteria food. After 7 years the bacteria have been feasting and dying. Its not pretty when that happens. Replace the lines and maybe the tank.
Propylene glycol is good bacteria food. After 7 years the bacteria have been feasting and dying. Its not pretty when that happens. Replace the lines and maybe the tank.
The lines, without a doubt, would be replaced. The tank is dry and appears to be clean. I'm not sure how the antifreeze is staying in the system. I'll snap a few pictures later today. I have no intentions of using it for anything beyond hand washing unless I were to replace the whole system.
Surely, there must be a better alternative for winterizing or is this not an issue when a system is winterized for only a year or two?
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Yes there is a way to significantly reduce the amount of the AF used. It requires setting up the water system to make it easier to do.
Pump everything as dry as it can be.
Drain the HW tank and bypass the HW tank.
Disconnect the water line on the outflow side of the pump and open all the faucets. Use a compressor to blow out the lines.
Disconnect the inflow line from the pump. Use a compressor to blow any water back into the tank. Use a shop vac to clean up any residual water.
Connect a couple of temporary lines to the water pump and pump a small amount of AF through the pump. This is necessary because any water, even a few tsps can puncture the diaphragm in the pump.
In the spring connect everything back up to the pump, fill the tank and shock the system, see procedure on the Marine Sanitation forum here on SBO.
A little water left in the HW tank is not a big issue. There is plenty of room for it to expand when it freezes, it won't do any damage. Between shocking the system and the first long motoring session when the tank temp reaches 170° F any critters will be dead.
While it is nice to have the water tank bone dry, often it difficult to accomplish this. A little water will make the tank humid which can promote mold and mildew growth.
There is a better alternative to antifreeze in a fresh water system, but it requires a bit of work: blowing ALL the water out of ALL the lines, which requires disconnecting where necessary to drain them.
Water expands about 10% when it freezes...Damage only occurs when the volume of ice has no room to expand. An inch or two of water in the tank has plenty of room to expand, so no need for the tank to be completely dry.
(Dave posted with more detail while I was typing...so I will add to his advice: you can buy kits to bypass the water heater...use the drain petcock at the bottom of the tank to drain it.)
--Peggie
Water expands about 10% when it freezes...Damage only occurs when the volume of ice has no room to expand. An inch or two of water in the tank has plenty of room to expand, so no need for the tank to be completely dry.
(Dave posted with more detail while I was typing...so I will add to his advice: you can buy kits to bypass the water heater...use the drain petcock at the bottom of the tank to drain it.)
--Peggie
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One of the tricks I learned from @mainesail was to use SS supply hoses for connections and not the barbed hose connectors. These are the connectors used in household plumbing to connect the faucets to the supply pipes. Much easier to simply unscrew the connection than to wrestle with hose clamps and pulling hoses off the fittings.
Which is ok because you should recommission the freshwater system in the spring (complete instructions in the "sticky" at the top of this page.)
--Peggie
I hear cheap vodka works…but I haven’t tried it 
I drain my water tanks (running the faucets), then disconnect each one and put water line in a jug of AF…and run faucets…repeat for other tank. I don’t fill the tanks with AF.
For commissioning, I add water to the tanks, and some bleach (Peggy’s recommended mix) and then run some of the mixture through the lines until pink stops and I can smell bleach at the faucets…then let sit. Next day, I drain the tanks (again running the faucets). I may wipe out the tank at this point if I see any stuff in the bottom, and then fill with fresh water. Run some fresh water through the faucets. I will add a splash of bleach to a full tank of water to help keep the Water from getting skanky if I don’t use it fast enough or if the weather is really hot.
A few years ago, I removed one of my 30 gallon tanks because I didn’t really need that much water for my day sailing and occasionally cooking and cleaning on the boat. Now I use the water much faster, and that keeps it fresher.
It sounds like yours just sat for an extended period of time @Project_Mayhem, so maybe a refresh of the system is needed. But if you are just using it for cleaning, I would commission the system this spring and see how it works/smells/tastes and then make a decision.
Greg
I drain my water tanks (running the faucets), then disconnect each one and put water line in a jug of AF…and run faucets…repeat for other tank. I don’t fill the tanks with AF.
For commissioning, I add water to the tanks, and some bleach (Peggy’s recommended mix) and then run some of the mixture through the lines until pink stops and I can smell bleach at the faucets…then let sit. Next day, I drain the tanks (again running the faucets). I may wipe out the tank at this point if I see any stuff in the bottom, and then fill with fresh water. Run some fresh water through the faucets. I will add a splash of bleach to a full tank of water to help keep the Water from getting skanky if I don’t use it fast enough or if the weather is really hot.
A few years ago, I removed one of my 30 gallon tanks because I didn’t really need that much water for my day sailing and occasionally cooking and cleaning on the boat. Now I use the water much faster, and that keeps it fresher.
It sounds like yours just sat for an extended period of time @Project_Mayhem, so maybe a refresh of the system is needed. But if you are just using it for cleaning, I would commission the system this spring and see how it works/smells/tastes and then make a decision.
Greg
Here's what I found. One ancient looking accumulator tank and one Jabsco automatic pump. Both are disconnected. I'm guessing that I did that when I replaced a bulkhead so it was winterized for two years at most. Zero chance of saving the line next to the tank, that's for sure. I'm hoping I can use the pump. I assume the accumulator tank eliminates water hammer and low pressure when the faucet is first turned on?
If the accumulator works, it stores some pressure so the pump cycles less.
I have one on my O’Day 322, it does flow a little water before the pump kicks on… maybe improves pressure at the very start.
There is a bladder in the tank, and you can normally adjust the pressure (should be an air valve somewhere).
Greg
I have one on my O’Day 322, it does flow a little water before the pump kicks on… maybe improves pressure at the very start.
There is a bladder in the tank, and you can normally adjust the pressure (should be an air valve somewhere).
Greg
At the top of the tank there should be a Schrader Valve like the one on a bicycle tire. The allows pressure to be adjusted in the bladder.
An accumulator tank is not necessary if the pump has a pressure valve. I got rid of the tank on my boat, it wasn't necessary and took up space in a cabinet.
An accumulator tank is not necessary if the pump has a pressure valve. I got rid of the tank on my boat, it wasn't necessary and took up space in a cabinet.
It it has a switch to automatically turn the pump on and off at the specified outlet pressure but does not look like it has a pressure relief valve. What's the likely hood of being able to use these components after sitting for so long?
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The pump pressure is relatively low and the hose diameter small, so over pressure is not much of an issue. These pumps are basically fancy diaphragm pumps, if it gets over pressure I suspect the diaphragm will split and while the pump will run it won't push and water. The water in the hoses would drain out the pump and that would be it.
A long term layup with AF may have affected the rubber in the diaphragm. The only way to check is to put some water in the tank and turn on the pump. If it leaks then it's time for a new pump. Some pump models can be rebuilt, some not. However, the cost difference between the rebuild kit and a new pump is not that much. I'd be inclined to just replace the pump and ditch the accumulator.
Thanks Dave! Hopefully the pump is still in good working order. I'm afraid of what might be growing on the inside of that vintage accumulator. Yes, I know a shock treatment should get rid of everything