Rebuild or Replace. If Replace, with What?

[KZW]

I’m looking for feedback from folks with experience. The situation: I’m having issues with the WC Headmate manual head in my Catalina 310. I took possession of the boat a month ago. This is my first experience with a head in a boat. It doesn’t seem to pump very well. It empties to a 20 gal holding tank via approximately 6 ft. of hose. The previous owner used fresh water to flush, filling the bowl with water from the shower fixture; not drawing it in with the pump, meaning the pump piston was always dry. I’m told this has bad ramifications for the piston in the pump as well as the pump wall. The pump will empty the bowl after several strokes, but it just doesn’t seem to have any force to the pump. I’ve taken the advice of 6 inches per pump and pump at least twenty times to ensure things get to the holding tank. On pump out, the yard has trouble getting a good seal. I’m not sure the pump out ever completely empties the tank. I went off shore, opened the macerator seacock, and tried dumping the tank. Clearly the macerator pump was chewing on stuff. When the boat heels to port (the side the holding tank is on), the head bowl fills with rather nasty stuff. I know the head has not been rebuilt for the last five years, and possibly not since it was new in 2005. Today I disassembled the pump and lubricated it with Teflon SuperLube. I also replaced the joker valve. The old joker valve didn’t close all the way. It was hard to see the pump piston, but it appears to have seen better days. (By the way, why do the engineers who design these things make it so difficult to get a screwdriver onto the screw heads???) Here are the questions:

1) Is it worth rebuilding the Headmate with a $70.00 rebuild kit, or should the whole thing be pulled out and replaced?

2) If replaced, do I go with a Jabasco Twist N Lock for $180, or a Raritan PHII that is going to run around $400? I’ve heard the Jabasco may have issues pumping, but have no first hand knowledge. Given the length of the discharge hose, that is a concern. The Raritan gets good reviews. The head will not be used very much, perhaps two or three weekend overnights per year. I plan to keep the boat at least 10 years.

I take all the help I can get!!!

 

[Stu Jackson]

I used to have many Headmates. They were pretty good, I'd say between a trashy Jabsco and a Raritan.

Get a PHII and be done with it. Forever. Good luck, it's easy.

Head Replacement 101 - Installation of PHII Head http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3797.0.html

 

[kloudie1]

There is the option of using the ceramic bowl from the WC and installing it onto the Raritan base.. Saves some dollars in the part and the shipping..:
http://shop.hunterowners.com/prod.php?52006/Raritan LBA Upgrade for almost any toilet
For the record, I had to buy a Jabsco about 10 years ago .. was leaving for a few day cruise and the WC Headmate died and no parts were available.. West Marine happened to have the JAbsco on sale and no one else was open that night. I have been very happy with the toilet but it is more "delicate" than the Raritan. I had intended to install a Raritan but the Jabsco has not given me enough grief to force that issue.

 

[Ron20324]

Just pump the 20 times when you do the last pump of the cruise. If you do it every potty use, you'll just be filling the holding tank needlessly with water.

 

[Sailm8]

I don't like Jabsco, personal opinion, because you always end up fixing it again next year. I switched to Raritan bought through this site and have had no problems since.

That being said, you can buy the entire pump assembly as one piece for about 100 bucks. I rebuilt my old Jabsco, John Wayne, (he didn't take crap from anyone) and was no sooner finished than the pump cylinder cracked and I got to do it again.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

(Nursing the first cold I've had in at least 5 years and VERY cranky about it!)

Replace the toilet... The Headmate was discontinued several years ago...you don't want to put any money into an obsolete worn out piece of equipment.

It shouldn't take 20 pumps even for a worn out toilet to move bowl contents 6' (and Ron, if you'd ever learn to use the dry mode, you can pump waste that far without filling up the holding tank with flush water).

Bowl shouldn't fill up with tank contents when the boat heels either...and your difficulty in pumping out or dumping the tank can be due to a blocked tank vent.

So you really need more than a new toilet (go with the Raritan PHC LBA...this site has it for a VERY good price !)...the whole system really should be replumbed and hoses replaced and rerouted. And most likely your tank vent line removed from the rail stanchion and connected to a proper thru-hull. Good news: you shouldn't have to replace the tank...it's excellent quality, should last forever. (operative word there is "should.") So the the toilet is the only major expense.

You're gonna need more specific help than is practical in a discussion forum...Email me and we'll talk.

 

[KZW]

Peggy,

Very glad to hear from you. Given yours and other opinions on the site, replacement with a Raritan appears to be the way to go. That will wait until the hot / humid weather here in the FL panhandle moderates. Even with the air conditioning, working on the head in the confined space is hot and hard on my joints - which have seen better days.

The vent doesn't appear to be through a stanchion (I could be wrong). It appears to be on the port stern through a little chrome knob. I will post a picture latter in the week as it is one of the few areas of the boat I have not yet photographed. I was going to snake the vent, but found a screen in it that I cannot figure out how to remove. The vent could be blocked. I'm trying to slosh water around in the tank to see if it loosens things up.

I will take pictures of the lines I can see and get back to you in a few days.

Hope you had a good time at the Annapolis boat show.

Cheers,

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

The vent doesn't appear to be through a stanchion (I could be wrong). It appears to be on the port stern through a little chrome knob.

That's just as bad...the line is too long and screen causes more problems than it solves.

I was going to snake the vent, but found a screen in it that I cannot figure out how to remove. The vent could be blocked. I'm trying to slosh water around in the tank to see if it loosens things up.

That won't work...and you prob'ly won't be able to snake it (too long and prob'ly too many bends) even if you get the screen out--which I'd do with a knife. Then you might be able to backflush it with a hose

I will take pictures of the lines I can see and get back to you in a few days.

Whenever...I'll be glad to help you.

Hope you had a good time at the Annapolis boat show.

That happens in Oct.

 

[Claude L.-Auger]

. Then you might be able to backflush it with a hose

Glad to have you back Peggy ! Good idea to backflush with a hose but before you do make sure the stern vent is not the diesel fuel vent ! you definitely do not want to try backflushing until you are positive about that as you'll create a whole new set of problems for yourself. Good luck

 

[seadaddler]

Replaced

If you want I have a new head mate complete pump that was on when new
in 2007 H-36,I always had to pump many times when new and rebuilt and always
need many pumping and so much water.
It did work OK some times but and they no long make them and I think Raritan
borth them,any way I replaced with the PHII and love it and do use fresh water flushing.
I did replace the PHII with Raritan Sea Era electric this year and we also love it
and may sell the PHII and the Head Mate pump for sure.
I think Raritan makes a very good quality product for sure.
Nick

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

A very VERY good point!

Great catch, Claude...thank you!

. Then you might be able to backflush it with a hose

Glad to have you back Peggy ! Good idea to backflush with a hose but before you do make sure the stern vent is not the diesel fuel vent ! you definitely do not want to try backflushing until you are positive about that as you'll create a whole new set of problems for yourself. Good luck

 

[Ron20324]

Peggy, you needn't mention me on this one- it was in response to the OP's: "meaning the pump piston was always dry. I’m told this has bad ramifications for the piston in the pump as well as the pump wall....... and pump at least twenty times to ensure things get to..." etc.

On a weekend cruise I found the 13-gallon holding tank full on Sunday morning- with 2 couples on board. An "experienced" crew, use to off-shore he says- confessed he pumped all the water he thought it would take to get the contents off the boat. And, as I said, he only filled the tank

 

[KZW]

- There has been no more back flow into the head bowl since I replaced the joker valve

- I finally got some time to get some things done on the boat. Work and tending to the spouse have severely limited my ability to get things done. In addition to getting the material in the stuffing box replaced (that was a new experience!) I back flushed the holding tank lines.

-- The vent line is a very short run to the tank, not more than 18 inches and a straight line.
Picture 1 is the exterior. The silver vent on the left has two 3/8" screens in it and goes to the holding tank. The vent on the right also has two 3/8" screens and it runs to the fuel tank.
Picture 2 is the interior and a real pain in the rump to access. The line on the right is the holding tank vent, the one on the left goes to the diesel tank.

-- I opened the pump out fitting and back flushed the vent at a rate of 0.5 gallons per minute via a 3/8" OD siphon hose. The screens are clean. I ran two gallons into it. No issues. If the vent was plugged, the line should have filled with water and overflowed.

- I also back flushed the pump out line with water from a hose at the rate of a gallon per minute. Four gallons went in without an issue.

- Given the above, I'm presuming the vents and pump out lines are clear. I was able to go offshore a week ago and run the macerator/pump through the seacock. It chewed on stuff and then appeared to run OK. I suspect and overabundance of toilet paper. I think the tank was empty when I shut it down.

- The pump on the WC HM head feels "loose". There is no feeling of pressure when pumping, unlike any hand pump I've used before. It takes several pumps to empty a couple cups of water from the bowl. My presumption is the pump ring failed and/or the pump walls leak. It got "looser" after I put Super Lube in the pump housing. It does leak a little at the rubber gasket where the pump rod enters the pump.

Bottom line is I think the WC HM will be replaced with a PHII when the weather is cooler.


Peggy, I will take you up on your offer and e-mail you a write-up within the week.