Rebedding deadlights on '87 O'Day 272

Pat · Jan 2, 2013

cbourne200 said:
Rebedding deadlights on a 272 - does anyone know if there was a 'seal' behind the dark lexan? I removed one today, and it appears that around the cabin opening (stuck to cabin top) was a seal of some kind - approx 1/4-3/8" wide, and had ridges. Definitely NOT a 'caulk' type material. The back that was attached to the cabin appeared to have a cellophane coating (which may be why it was leakng) and was not stuck to the cabin very well.

Does anyone know it there was an original 'seal' or whether this may have been a PO modification? I removed it (but didn't destroy it or throw it away), and put butyl tape in it's place. But not sure if butyl will be thick enough to fill gap between lexan/cabin top.

Any help/recommendation is appreciated.

Charles
'87 O'Day 272
Pensacola, FL

We had to replace on of ours twice...we had them made by Rudy at D & R
and he recommended using Dow 275 Black because it flexes during hot and cold weather....is also use on car windshields....We ignored that advice and
it shattered into a thousand pieces the first try (at first frost) so we re-ordered. Now, to your question. It seems to me that the material you are describing must have been used by O'Day initially, because I remember pulling it off...We did not put anything like that material back on the 2nd time...just used the black Dow 275 Caulk...to hold the portlights in place...Per Rudy's instruction sheet, the small screws only hold the piece in place...they do not function to keep the port from leaking so you don't tighten them down really tight....the above all occured about 4 years ago, maybe 5 and the port has never leaked again...We could not find the Dow Chemical 275 Black in Wichita at any retail outlets so we went to google and found a wholesale distributer for car windshield places in Kansas City and he sent us 2 deals of the caulk...it is mostly used by automobile windshield places....the ones in Wichita had it and used it but would not or could not sell to us....If you have any questions, write back & good luck!

remember your issue is one of expansion and contraction and evidently 275
is best....If you order the port from Rudy, it comes with instructions that if followed, will insure success....

Joe11688 · Jan 3, 2013

It's called Dow Corning 795 and this is the stuff you should use. The port light set up on my 1986 O'Day 222 is the same as what my friend Mike has on hiis 1986 O'Day 272 which is probably similar to the 1987 O'Day 272, I calculte.
What I would do is put masking tape around the port lights first. Then the excess clean up will be easier.
Also, I was thinking that an extra pair of hands will come in handy on this job to line up the Plexiglas. I would use two long nails for each of the upper corners of the holes in the Plexiglas as a guide. After you squeeze out a bead of caulking around the frame opening, just stick each nail into the corners and into the existing screw holes as a guide, and be ready with the screws. Just get all your screws caught first, and then remove the nails and put your remaining screws in and screw them all down. This should insure a perfect line up without a lot of mess.
I've thought about this and how I would do the job, and this is one solution that I came up with for a perfect line up. Both the DC 795 and the Sikaflex caulking can be messy so I would use the masking tape where needed.

Joe11688 · Jan 4, 2013

I like Butyl Tape for certain hardware which is bolted in place like the hinge plate on my cabin which sits on a piece of Trex and has a utility plate under the hinge. I also used it for my new bow stem chain plate.
Anything held on by wood screws though, I want a caulking that will also adhere. I'm assuming that DC 795 has good adherence qualities. I used it on my forward hatch, but then again, my hatch is held on with 1/4'' bolts and special cap nuts.

One caulking I really like which has amazing adherence is Dap Silicon Rubber Adhesive Caulking but I'm told that you shouldn't use it on Fiberglas. Actually I used it to adhere the Lexan lens to my Gray Marine forward hatch cover and this stuff worked like a champ. I only adhered plastic to plastic with the Dap. I did that this past summer because I was getting a tiny leak coming in around the lens. I thought it may be good to use on port lights but some people on this forum are telling me no. One thing you don't want to use is a Polysulfide caulking. Don't use Acetone on these lens. I used denatured alcohol for clean up.

I remember talking to a girl in Columbus OH who owned an 87 O'Day 222 with the same type of port lights. She had some new ones made up to replace the dull ports and she used a special 3-M caulking tape to adhere them with---no screws!

I haven't heard from her in a long time so I don't really know how well they held up.

Pat · Jan 4, 2013

Trinkka said:
I like Butyl Tape for certain hardware which is bolted in place like the hinge plate on my cabin which sits on a piece of Trex and has a utility plate under the hinge. I also used it for my new bow stem chain plate.
Anything held on by wood screws though, I want a caulking that will also adhere. I'm assuming that DC 795 has good adherence qualities. I used it on my forward hatch, but then again, my hatch is held on with 1/4'' bolts and special cap nuts.

One caulking I really like which has amazing adherence is Dap Silicon Rubber Adhesive Caulking but I'm told that you shouldn't use it on Fiberglas. Actually I used it to adhere the Lexan lens to my Gray Marine forward hatch cover and this stuff worked like a champ. I only adhered plastic to plastic with the Dap. I did that this past summer because I was getting a tiny leak coming in around the lens. I thought it may be good to use on port lights but some people on this forum are telling me no. One thing you don't want to use is a Polysulfide caulking. Don't use Acetone on these lens. I used denatured alcohol for clean up.

I remember talking to a girl in Columbus OH who owned an 87 O'Day 222 with the same type of port lights. She had some new ones made up to replace the dull ports and she used a special 3-M caulking tape to adhere them with---no screws! I haven't heard from her in a long time so I don't really know how well they held up.

Everything Trinka is saying is correct...It is 795....and it's properties allow contraction and swelling vs. regular black caulk....we learned the hard
way as we used a regular black caulk on the first one Rudy sent us, despite his telling us to use the 795..then the first frost, the port shattered into a thousand pieces...and his installation recommendations are right on and a second person is very helpful..

Joe11688 · Jan 4, 2013

I learned one other thing about that Plexiglas. If you ever buy new ports and need to bore the holes in it for the screws, bore the holes a little wider to compensate for temperature changes that can cause the lens to crack at the holes. I would just go with a drill bit that will fit the holes in your old lens and use it on the new ones.

I've noticed that these port lights have a tendency to get dull from the sun I guess. I talked to Rudy about this and he told me that you may be able to get them to come back by using an extra fine steel wool and rubbing compound. I really don't know. I've never tried it myself.

Pat · Jan 4, 2013

Trinkka said:
I learned one other thing about that Plexiglas. If you ever buy new ports and need to bore the holes in it for the screws, bore the holes a little wider to compensate for temperature changes that can cause the lens to crack at the holes. I would just go with a drill bit that will fit the holes in your old lens and use it on the new ones.

I've noticed that these port lights have a tendency to get dull from the sun I guess. I talked to Rudy about this and he told me that you may be able to get them to come back by using an extra fine steel wool and rubbing compound. I really don't know. I've never tried it myself.

a really good point about the holes..we actually drilled holes only very slightly larger than the original...Pat

Pat · Jan 5, 2013

cbourne200 said:
Trinkka -
'Don't use acetone on portights' - why? I used a cloth with Acetone to help clean where previous 795 was that I couldn't scrape off. I didn't use it on 'visible' part that would show through window cutout, and what was on cloth ws just enough to 'moisten' the cloth, not soaked.

Also 'Don't use Polysulfide' - why? I'm a big fan of LifeCaulk and use it frequently for 'caulking' jobs.

Just need information for general knowledge - definitely am not an expert on these things. Have been sailing for 35 yrs, started in 1977 on a 2 yr old Columbia T-23. Maintained it all these years (until Dec 2011), and had few maintenance problems. Fortunately, I've not had large maintenance problems during this time. Mabe it's my quest to get info and do it right that has prevented 'nightmares'. Thanks for the info.

Charles
'87 O'Day 272
Pesacola, FL

Charles, we lived in Pensacola for 18 months back in the early 70's (Navy)
I was on the Lexington and just married to a gal from Connecticut....we lived
on Pensacola Beach (Rio Vista Drive).....a very nice spot with a huge screened=in patio on the Inland Waterway...and only a block or two from the gulf itself...could always here the waves.......you are a lucky guy! Pat

Joe11688 · Jan 6, 2013

cbourne200 said:
Trinkka -
'Don't use acetone on portights' - why? I used a cloth with Acetone to help clean where previous 795 was that I couldn't scrape off. I didn't use it on 'visible' part that would show through window cutout, and what was on cloth ws just enough to 'moisten' the cloth, not soaked.

Also 'Don't use Polysulfide' - why? I'm a big fan of LifeCaulk and use it frequently for 'caulking' jobs.

Just need information for general knowledge - definitely am not an expert on these things. Have been sailing for 35 yrs, started in 1977 on a 2 yr old Columbia T-23. Maintained it all these years (until Dec 2011), and had few maintenance problems. Fortunately, I've not had large maintenance problems during this time. Mabe it's my quest to get info and do it right that has prevented 'nightmares'. Thanks for the info.

Charles
'87 O'Day 272
Pesacola, FL

Charles,
You can clean the fiberglas area under the port lights with Acetone but according to what Rudy told me at his shop years ago, you don't want to use it on plexiglas because it will dull the finish on the lens. This is what he told me. I've been using denatured alcohol to clean the plastics ever since.

For plastics such as the Gray Marine forward hatches that came with these boats, port lights, and plastic deck plates and Etc, the chemicals in a regular Polysulfide caulking are very harmful to the plastics and can cause them to deteriorate, so I'm told.

I know. I'm a huge fan of 3-M 4000 and 3-M 4200 Adhesive Caulking myself, but I only use it for either wood to Fiberglas or metal hardware to Fiberglas surfaces.
Check out the caulking directions on a plastic Beckson Deck Plate the next time you're at "Worst Marine" and you'll find this warning on the package. They recommend a silicone caulking for plastics, but now I'm being told that silicone can have an adverse effect on Fiberglas when you need to recaulk the same area with the stuff. They're saying that no amount of cleaning can remove the residue that the silicone left on the Fiberglas surface under the plastic when you caulked it the first time.

Don Casey says in one of his Fiberglas repair books that silicone caulking acts more like a gasket than an adherent. I've use it and I'm inclined to agree with him. However, last summer I used Dap Silicone Rubber Adhesive Caulking to adhere my Lexan lens to my Gray Marine forward hatch cover, plastic to plastic, and it's working like a champ with no leaks so far. I thought it would also be good for port lights but one of "Main Sail's" knowledgeable friends says no.

So with all that said, I don't remember seeing a gasket under my port lights when I removed them. There was no groove for a gasket under them either.
Hey, if there's a gasket that sits in a groove under your port lights, it may be a good idea to use Butyl tape in place of it and use a bead of DC 795 or Sika-flex under the edge of the lens where the screws go in to hold them.

I started messing around with boats back in the 1970s and I'm always learning something new to this very day. Great things, these PCs!

http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117172

Joe11688 · Jan 6, 2013

I hate leaks. I try to attend to them as fast as I can when I first discover them. Last year I had a tiny leak that was dripping from the threads of one on my tabernacle bolts. I wound up taking my mast down and pulling my tabernacle off. This time I countersunk the Fiberglas and the Trex board under my hinge plate and used Butyl Tape to seal everything. So far so good. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Good luck Charles.

Joe

Rebedding deadlights on '87 O'Day 272

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Attachments

.

.

.