thank you for your kind words LuzSD...i would love to come there and build you some cabinets .....but ...the thing is...my extension cords aren't long enough .....regards
woody
Reasonable Canvas guy in Annapolis?
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thank you for your kind words LuzSD...i would love to come there and build you some cabinets .....but ...the thing is...my extension cords aren't long enough .....regards
woody
I don't know how to take all this. Who has a degree and what does that have to do with my skill? I am a mechanical tradesman who climbed my way up. I do pretty well, better than my brother or sister do with 6 degrees between them. I never built cabinets before but I am very comfortable with tools and taking my time. So I too took on the challenge and built a kitchen. In fact I am waiting on the granite now.
Oh. I will be darned if I ever hire someone because they are educated. I want someone who has class and gives a crap about his work and integrity and before any one starts it, you do NOT learn those in college.
I do work for "educated" people all the time. I do simple tasks that they should in my opinion be embarrassed that they can't do.
I never have done canvas work but now, just for spite, I am going to do all my own cushions and maybe even make a new Bimini. I won't hire the advice from any lawyer, doctor, or accountant to do it.
You want a new hvac system, or want cabinets like mine? Your going to pay me a lot more an hour than you make, I can assure you that. My rates start at 130 an hour.
Oh. I will be darned if I ever hire someone because they are educated. I want someone who has class and gives a crap about his work and integrity and before any one starts it, you do NOT learn those in college.
I do work for "educated" people all the time. I do simple tasks that they should in my opinion be embarrassed that they can't do.
I never have done canvas work but now, just for spite, I am going to do all my own cushions and maybe even make a new Bimini. I won't hire the advice from any lawyer, doctor, or accountant to do it.
You want a new hvac system, or want cabinets like mine? Your going to pay me a lot more an hour than you make, I can assure you that. My rates start at 130 an hour.
Attachments
Well I'm dumb as a box of rocks but I've found that I can outwork most folks.
The truth is nobody knows how to do anything the first time through it. you can read books and get advice from those that have done it but in the end you will have to learn by doing. I've found, over 53 trips around the sun, that there is almost nothing that I can't master. There are lots of things that I have mastered but have no interest in doing again too! Once was enough to convince me that I have enough skill to get me out of a pinch and I'll pay someone to do it for me. As a sailor you can get into situations where YOU HAVE to preform the task just to get back home alive. having some skill at a lot of things is handy for those situations.
So if the mainsail gets ripped in a storm in the middle of the Pacific what do you do? Call SBO and have them ship you a new one? I'm thinking that is not a solution. you probably don't have the fuel to motor home...., abandoning ship is kinda dumb, ....
having skills, even rudimentary ones is a good idea as a sailor.
It can also save you a lot of money too.
The truth is nobody knows how to do anything the first time through it. you can read books and get advice from those that have done it but in the end you will have to learn by doing. I've found, over 53 trips around the sun, that there is almost nothing that I can't master. There are lots of things that I have mastered but have no interest in doing again too! Once was enough to convince me that I have enough skill to get me out of a pinch and I'll pay someone to do it for me. As a sailor you can get into situations where YOU HAVE to preform the task just to get back home alive. having some skill at a lot of things is handy for those situations.
So if the mainsail gets ripped in a storm in the middle of the Pacific what do you do? Call SBO and have them ship you a new one? I'm thinking that is not a solution. you probably don't have the fuel to motor home...., abandoning ship is kinda dumb, ....
having skills, even rudimentary ones is a good idea as a sailor.
It can also save you a lot of money too.
A little perspective..
Our dodger & Bimini was 78.5 man hours....
*Go to boat meet with client on specifics and take preliminary frame measurements (most boats are not right in front of the canvas shop)
*Go back to shop to bend, crown & manufacture the frame
*Go to boat and "test fit frame" for "aesthetics" and agreed customer shape/dimensions/height etc.. A good shop will often want to get agreement on the new frame before moving forward.
*Send frame out for custom welded grab bar (not all canvas shops are capable of doing a "top shelf" welding job for a grab rail).
*Go back to boat to install both frames, every hole needs to be properly bedded and sealed. Backing plate access for the dodger & bimini frame need to be available for a "proper" installation. This required taking much of the interior apart to gain access to the where the feet would be mounted. Some guys just use screws, I prefer through bolting and was glad to pay for this extra time....
*Pattern for dodger & bimini (got windy and ran out of time in "calm" on our job and had to come back to complete it, this happens). I was there during the patterning. It took two guys 4.5 hours on the first round before it got too windy to continue patterning. I suspect another 2 on the next round...
*Go back to shop and sew dodger. With W.L. Gore Tenera thread, which is what was used on ours, this can add up to two+ additional hours in labor alone during the sewing as Tenera is quite finicky through the machines.. I will NEVER, EVER use polyester thread again and am GLAD to pay a premium for Tenara thread....
*Return to boat and install dodger & bimini. On our boat this took two guys nearly 8 hours, I was there during the installation. Remember every fastener needs to be properly bedded, mounted & sealed. The snaps, lift a dots etc. are all installed on-site so the fit is just right. The dodger MUST fit correctly and there is a LOT that goes into a proper fitting and installation to get it "just right". If any nip & tucks need to be done to the dodger or bimini it goes back to shop for more tweaking. If old screw holes from a previous dodger could not be used they are filled, and this can really add up..
*Once the dodger & bimini were installed the patterning for the bimini connector piece could begin
*Pattern for bimini connector
*Sew bimini connector
*Return to boat and install bimini connector
*If it does not fit "perfectly" back to shop for "tweaks"..
With a quality canvas shop this is not a 20 hour process at $80.00 per hour it is closer to 65 - 80+ man hours at the going rate, which around here is $75.00 to $90.00 per hour. $75.00 - 90.00 per hour for specialized labor is CHEAPER than most labor rates in this area not just "marine"...
Recently our washing machine was repaired and they charge $97.00 per hour + travel + made a COMPLETELY OFFENSIVE mark up on the parts. Once I saw the part I wrote down the part number and ordered a spare.. Not just a "marine thing"... My canvas guy actually earned his money compared to the technician who changed a $3.68 sensor then charged me $68.00 for it + $218.25 in labor and $65.00 "travel" to come 9.5 miles from his shop.
My car repair shop gets $121.00 per hour to work "flat rate" which means the mechanic fixes it in 15 minutes and they still charge me for a full hour because that is what the shop rate manual tells them to charge.....
At least with my canvas guy I pay for an honest hours worth of work.....
I recently changed the transmission fluid on my car for total cost of $36.00 for the four quarts. It took me about 20 minutes (would have taken the dealer 10 minutes). The dealer wanted $185.00 and they get the transmission fluid at their cost not the $9.00 / quart I pay for the "proprietary" fluid.......
My canvas guy drives an old car and lives in a very modest home. He also does not own multiple Rolex, Omega and other multi-thousand dollar watches like the owner of my car dealership does...
The canvas maker who did our current boat has about 10 people on the payroll, has a huge waterfront sail loft to support and up until last year had two locations but with the economy & a lack of "qualified help" he had to close one and consolidate. His insurance is pretty outrageous because he also does rigging and has employees up spars.
We use the same insurance agency so have commiserated about insurance costs before. He has the lowest labor rate of any of the local canvas or sail lofts in the area. Still it did not make my canvas project inexpensive because it all comes down to the sheer number of hours involved in a quality job.. If you want a quality job it is going to involve hours.
My canvas guy charges me fairly for an honest hours work where my car dealer, appliance guy and my wife's hair dresser do not.. He works for an hour, I pay him for an hour. He works for a half hour I pay him for a half hour. There is no "shop rate" book for boats so he does not work for 15 minutes and charge me for 1.25 hours of work. The guy who cut's my wife's hair in 30 minutes charges her $185.00 then expects a tip.....
Talk about lawyers rates.... My canvas guys operation is quite different in scale from the Mom & Pop car garage down the street who charges the same exact labor rate, has less employees (two to be exact), a smaller lower rent shop, but does the job in 15 minutes and still charges customers for the 1.25 hours the book says. Marine mark up???? I suspect it is not just limited to "marine"....
My point is that boating labor is often not any more or less expensive than other comparable work.
Heck the local awning maker is more expensive than our local canvas & sailmaker. One of my customers now uses this same guy to do the canvas work for all his local restaurants. He discovered this because the local "awning company" was about 50% more and had less attention to detail. He was sure glad he had him make a sail cover this summer because it saved him big money on the new awning that got blown off the building during Hurricane Sandy.
My canvas guy is actually less per hour than these other local services:
Car Repair
Oil Burner Service Tech
Plumber
Electrician
Appliance Repair
My Wife's Hair Dresser ($140.00 - $200.00 for about 30-45 minutes)
Landscaper ($60.00 to mow my neighbors lawn in 20 minutes)
Snow Plow Guy (my neighbor pays $40.00 per plow and it takes less than 5 minutes)
I prefer quality work and am willing to pay for it, some are not. I see lots of crappy canvas work out there that can destroy the aesthetics of an otherwise pretty boat. Not what I want to pay for but you can if you want to......
BTW one of our local canvas/sailmakers is a Dartmouth alum and I think all of them are college grads........
Well said Main Sail
Well said Main Sail...... I am an Architect and it can be quite frustrating dealing with backward people who have no respect for my time or skills.A little perspective..
Our dodger & Bimini was 78.5 man hours....
*Go to boat meet with client on specifics and take preliminary frame measurements (most boats are not right in front of the canvas shop)
*Go back to shop to bend, crown & manufacture the frame
*Go to boat and "test fit frame" for "aesthetics" and agreed customer shape/dimensions/height etc.. A good shop will often want to get agreement on the new frame before moving forward.
*Send frame out for custom welded grab bar (not all canvas shops are capable of doing a "top shelf" welding job for a grab rail).
*Go back to boat to install both frames, every hole needs to be properly bedded and sealed. Backing plate access for the dodger & bimini frame need to be available for a "proper" installation. This required taking much of the interior apart to gain access to the where the feet would be mounted. Some guys just use screws, I prefer through bolting and was glad to pay for this extra time....
*Pattern for dodger & bimini (got windy and ran out of time in "calm" on our job and had to come back to complete it, this happens). I was there during the patterning. It took two guys 4.5 hours on the first round before it got too windy to continue patterning. I suspect another 2 on the next round...
*Go back to shop and sew dodger. With W.L. Gore Tenera thread, which is what was used on ours, this can add up to two+ additional hours in labor alone during the sewing as Tenera is quite finicky through the machines.. I will NEVER, EVER use polyester thread again and am GLAD to pay a premium for Tenara thread....
*Return to boat and install dodger & bimini. On our boat this took two guys nearly 8 hours, I was there during the installation. Remember every fastener needs to be properly bedded, mounted & sealed. The snaps, lift a dots etc. are all installed on-site so the fit is just right. The dodger MUST fit correctly and there is a LOT that goes into a proper fitting and installation to get it "just right". If any nip & tucks need to be done to the dodger or bimini it goes back to shop for more tweaking. If old screw holes from a previous dodger could not be used they are filled, and this can really add up..
*Once the dodger & bimini were installed the patterning for the bimini connector piece could begin
*Pattern for bimini connector
*Sew bimini connector
*Return to boat and install bimini connector
*If it does not fit "perfectly" back to shop for "tweaks"..
With a quality canvas shop this is not a 20 hour process at $80.00 per hour it is closer to 65 - 80+ man hours at the going rate, which around here is $75.00 to $90.00 per hour. $75.00 - 90.00 per hour for specialized labor is CHEAPER than most labor rates in this area not just "marine"...
Recently our washing machine was repaired and they charge $97.00 per hour + travel + made a COMPLETELY OFFENSIVE mark up on the parts. Once I saw the part I wrote down the part number and ordered a spare.. Not just a "marine thing"... My canvas guy actually earned his money compared to the technician who changed a $3.68 sensor then charged me $68.00 for it + $218.25 in labor and $65.00 "travel" to come 9.5 miles from his shop.
My car repair shop gets $104.00 per hour to work "flat rate" which means the mechanic fixes it in 15 minutes and they still charge me for a full hour because that is what the shop rate manual tells them to charge..... At least with my canvas guy I pay for an honest hours worth of work.....He charges for an hour and works for an hour.. Hmm odd concept car repair shops just don't seem to get....
I recently changed the transmission fluid on my car for total cost of $36.00 for the four quarts. It took me about 20 minutes (would have taken the dealer 10 minutes). The dealer wanted $185.00 and they get the transmission fluid at their cost not the $9.00 / quart I pay for the "proprietary" fluid.......
My canvas guy drives an old car and lives in a very modest home. He also does not own multiple Rolex, Omega and other multi-thousand dollar watches like the owner of my car dealership does...
The canvas maker who did our current boat has about 10 people on the payroll, has a huge waterfront sail loft to support and up until last year had two locations but with the economy & a lack of "qualified help" he had to close one and consolidate. His insurance is pretty outrageous because he also does rigging and has employees up spars. We use the same insurance agency so have commiserated about insurance costs before. He has the lowest labor rate of any of the local canvas or sail lofts in the area. Still it did not make my canvas project inexpensive because it all comes down to the sheer number of hours involved in a quality job.. If you want a quality job it is going to involve hours.
My canvas guy charges me fairly for an honest hours work where my car dealer, appliance guy and my wife's hair dresser do not.. He works for an hour, I pay him for an hour. He works for a half hour I pay him for a half hour. There is no "shop rate" book for boats so he does not work for 15 minutes and charge me for 1.25 hours of work. The guy who cut's my wife's hair in 30 minutes charges her $185.00 then expects a tip.....
My canvas guys operation is quite different in scale from the Mom & Pop car garage down the street who charges the same exact labor rate, has less employees (two to be exact), a smaller lower rent shop, but does the job in 15 minutes and still charges customers for the 1.25 hours the book says. Marine mark up???? I suspect it is not just limited to "marine"....
My point is that boating labor is often not any more or less expensive than other comparable work.
Heck the local awning maker is more expensive than our local canvas & sailmaker. One of my customers now uses this same guy to do the canvas work for all his local restaurants. He discovered this because the local "awning company" was about 50% more and had less attention to detail. He was sure glad he had him make a sail cover this summer because it saved him big money on the new awning that got blown off the building during Hurricane Sandy.
My canvas guy is actually less per hour than these other local services:
Car Repair
Oil Burner Service Tech
Plumber
Electrician
Appliance Repair
My Wife's Hair Dresser ($140.00 - $200.00 for about 30-45 minutes)
Landscaper ($60.00 to mow my neighbors lawn in 20 minutes)
Snow Plow Guy (my neighbor pays $40.00 per plow and it takes less than 5 minutes)
I prefer quality work and am willing to pay for it, some are not. I see lots of crappy canvas work out there that can destroy the aesthetics of an otherwise pretty boat. Not what I want to pay for but you can if you want to......
BTW one of our local canvas/sailmakers is a Dartmouth alum and I think all of them are college grads........
Re: Well said Main Sail
I repair houses for a living and have for about 33 years. Today a real estate agent called and has a sheetrock ceiling repair that needs doing in a house on the market. Time is of the essence. Does anyone think it is going to be cheap?
I repair houses for a living and have for about 33 years. Today a real estate agent called and has a sheetrock ceiling repair that needs doing in a house on the market. Time is of the essence. Does anyone think it is going to be cheap?
You guys are hilarious.
From some (not all) - No concept of what was stated or asked, only reactionary jibberish.
I never said "Cheap". Anyone who has a boat in Annapolis knows what I'm talking about when I complain about rates.
I never said anything about needing a dodger. The whooole schpeal about constructing a dodger was for naught.
I never said I was superior. I said I charge 25% of what Annapolis canvas people want, for the same amount of time worked. "Educated" means I have ALSO invested in myself, not knowing that I apparently should have been a canvas maker.
I understand that skill is required. You'd have to be arrogant and ignorant to assume that I don't. My question is, why is canvas skill in Annapolis vastly more valuable than mine? My answer is, it isn't; the rates are exhorbitant.
Thank you to those who helped, and for the links.
From some (not all) - No concept of what was stated or asked, only reactionary jibberish.
I never said "Cheap". Anyone who has a boat in Annapolis knows what I'm talking about when I complain about rates.
I never said anything about needing a dodger. The whooole schpeal about constructing a dodger was for naught.
I never said I was superior. I said I charge 25% of what Annapolis canvas people want, for the same amount of time worked. "Educated" means I have ALSO invested in myself, not knowing that I apparently should have been a canvas maker.
I understand that skill is required. You'd have to be arrogant and ignorant to assume that I don't. My question is, why is canvas skill in Annapolis vastly more valuable than mine? My answer is, it isn't; the rates are exhorbitant.
Thank you to those who helped, and for the links.
Skipper, Sir, you started this with a very arrogant tone, and I think you received response appropriate to your comments. What were you asking for besides a group gripe session on the high cost of canvas mfg. in your area and in the marine world in general? I have a feeling that had everyone responded with their own woe is me story you would not have been upset at the direction of the response. If all you were after was a few names of less expensive canvas people, then you'd have been better off without the long drawn out details about 4 x as much as you make. Actually I still don't understand what that means.
My response stands though; I believe in marine canvas, you get what you pay for.
My response stands though; I believe in marine canvas, you get what you pay for.
My question is, why is canvas skill in Annapolis vastly more valuable than mine? My answer is, it isn't; the rates are exhorbitant
Listen I design and make all most of my own stuff bicycles included ( it took a few years to get this good )
I pay the sail loft and canvas guy because I don't really feel like investing the YEARS and thousands of dollars to gain that skill
Listen I design and make all most of my own stuff bicycles included ( it took a few years to get this good )
I pay the sail loft and canvas guy because I don't really feel like investing the YEARS and thousands of dollars to gain that skill
So, I'm the only one who has ever complained about "marine" rates? Whenever I complain about it, I'm arrogant? Give me a break.
So, you just pay whatever they ask?
I in fact do NOT get what I pay for, if I am shopping in the Rodeo Drive of boat vendors. I've already had multiple others in a separate post state that their canvas people are hugely less than Annapolis.
And, 4x means 4x. I don't understand your confusion. They gave the time required, then the price. I did the math. I was actually a little conservative in their favor.
Again, anyone who has a boat in Annapolis knows what I'm talking about. And I'm not the first to mention it, or regarding similar harbors around the country.
By the way, did you used to own an old Tartan 27? Your name sounds familiar - I'm originally from SoCal.
Skipper, I venture a guess that you slept through economics 101. The class where they explain supply and demand and diminishing returns. Rule #1 when you are in business: if you get every job that you bid your prices are too low! Rule #2: If you are getting more work than you can handle and don't want to hire more people, raise your rates! There is an infinity of work out there at 1 dollar per hour and a rather small amount of work at 1000 dollars per hour but some where in between can be found a dollar value that makes the best of the market and your time. That is why costs are high where there is great demand.
So, you just pay whatever they ask?
No I get quotes and if I am not happy I keep looking or DIY the job
Just like I could not afford the boat I wanted I did not think they were ripping me off as nobody had one I could afford
SO I bought junk boat and spent 20 months in my driveway and now I have what I want I just paid in a different way
No I get quotes and if I am not happy I keep looking or DIY the job
Just like I could not afford the boat I wanted I did not think they were ripping me off as nobody had one I could afford
SO I bought junk boat and spent 20 months in my driveway and now I have what I want I just paid in a different way
I get the feeling that the op opened the thread with what he intended to be a little lighthearted venting, and it got taken the wrong way, then the whole thing steamrolled. It can be hard to rationalize a lot of shop prices here in the annapolis area when it's not at all uncommon for some thing like a hull painting job costing more than the boat itself is worth.
I say this without a bit of jealousy or spite, but there are almost two separate sailing worlds here... The regular guys that have to groan a little everytime a surprise $500 expense pops up, and then there are the guys that enjoy beautiful, large boats and don't have as many concerns with the cost of upkeep and dockage. Unfortunately, because slip space, shop space, craftsman talent, etc are in limited supply, we regular guys often have to swallow hard pay the big rich guy costs. And I think that's what the op was trying to make light of.
I say this without a bit of jealousy or spite, but there are almost two separate sailing worlds here... The regular guys that have to groan a little everytime a surprise $500 expense pops up, and then there are the guys that enjoy beautiful, large boats and don't have as many concerns with the cost of upkeep and dockage. Unfortunately, because slip space, shop space, craftsman talent, etc are in limited supply, we regular guys often have to swallow hard pay the big rich guy costs. And I think that's what the op was trying to make light of.
This thread is kind of scary. I wonder what it would cost to have new canvas for my boat. I have a bimini, dodger, and connector. They are in okay shape and fit great. I would just want copies of what I have.
Any thoughts on the cost?
Any thoughts on the cost?
The cost of a bimini depends (you knew it would) on how big it is and what extras you want and what you are willing to do yourself.
I did my full (12'x 6') bimini with full enclosure and bug screens, winch covers, and new sail cover for around $800.00. that did not include the bimini bows which i already had. If I had a shop do it I'm thinking nothing lsee than $3000 for the whole shootin match.
I did my full (12'x 6') bimini with full enclosure and bug screens, winch covers, and new sail cover for around $800.00. that did not include the bimini bows which i already had. If I had a shop do it I'm thinking nothing lsee than $3000 for the whole shootin match.
Ahhh just wear a baseball cap and slap on some sunscreen. Bimini schmimini.
Here's the thing. The original thread strayed with...
"I'm educated" (fantastic, that and 2 bucks will get you a cup of coffee but this is where we all got the arrogant time...)
"I'm experienced" no clarification as to what experience you have at this point.
And Talented (with regard to making bicycles)
The problem here is the canvas guy doesn't base his rates on what you or I do for a living unless he runs on the "section 8" plan, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't. He probably gives at church so he's not obligated to do any charity work and frankly if anyone can afford a boat, they aren't really an ideal charity case. I'm being facetious here.
While your skill making bicycles is admirable, my guess is there is a larger population of folks wanting canvas work in a city like Annapolis.
Price has nothing to do with cost. Is has everything to do with value, demand, and the competition.
Now if the point is that canvas work is just too expensive in Annapolis, then take a drive out if town and get some quotes.
Here's the thing. The original thread strayed with...
"I'm educated" (fantastic, that and 2 bucks will get you a cup of coffee but this is where we all got the arrogant time...)
"I'm experienced" no clarification as to what experience you have at this point.
And Talented (with regard to making bicycles)
The problem here is the canvas guy doesn't base his rates on what you or I do for a living unless he runs on the "section 8" plan, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't. He probably gives at church so he's not obligated to do any charity work and frankly if anyone can afford a boat, they aren't really an ideal charity case. I'm being facetious here.
While your skill making bicycles is admirable, my guess is there is a larger population of folks wanting canvas work in a city like Annapolis.
Price has nothing to do with cost. Is has everything to do with value, demand, and the competition.
Now if the point is that canvas work is just too expensive in Annapolis, then take a drive out if town and get some quotes.
Thank you, RS Grampian. You are much better at this than I.
Maybe some clarification is in order:
I searched for a good varnish person in Annapolis. The boat has a good quantity of very nice exterior teak. I obtained quotes from several businesses, one of which was operated by a snooty lady who took offense to my multiple questions about her work. I finally found a gentleman whose work pictures looked outstanding, and he was HALF of what the others were asking. The teak now looks stunning, even show-worthy, and now still after a year uncovered and in the sun. This is what I mean by "Reasonable". I never said "Cheap".
I used to live in OC, CA. I had a diver\detailer\varnisher who was a fantastic person and did extraordinary work. And he charged an amount that equalled a very nice hourly income plus materials, without being outrageous. This I consider fair, and "reasonable".
I used to have a mechanic who specialized in my brand of car. He was honest, fair, educated, and talented. And he didn't charge for time not used or make up things that needed doing. This type of vendor is who I seek for every sector.
I didn't sleep through Econ 101, I taught it, then lived it. Was a retail storefront and wholesale business owner for a decade. I was successful because I controlled my expenses, marketed effectively, and treated my customers financially well, for I wanted them to come back, which they did. The customers coming back caused an increase in workload, so I hired people. This is called "Sustained growth", which Ross apparently missed in Econ.
Next, I love the guy who posted pictures of his metal projects. However, I'm unsure what that has to do with the price of tea in China, or the price of canvas in Annapolis.
Last: Sorry to MainSail who posted a much more interesting message than I originally thought.
Your not able to find anybody who will work at your predetermined value for the project
So It has everything to do with it as you think it is to much money but don't have the time/desire to gain the skills
Just like I thought the bicycles were to much money at the time so I did something about it which was build my own BUT as the bicycle component pricing model has changed over time I just bought my most recent 2012 Cyclocross bike because it was cheaper this time than doing a new build
And it is always entertaining when people feel ripped off when there unhappy with the estimate
So It has everything to do with it as you think it is to much money but don't have the time/desire to gain the skills
Just like I thought the bicycles were to much money at the time so I did something about it which was build my own BUT as the bicycle component pricing model has changed over time I just bought my most recent 2012 Cyclocross bike because it was cheaper this time than doing a new build
And it is always entertaining when people feel ripped off when there unhappy with the estimate
There is ONE truly gifted canvas guy in the Anne Arundel (Annapolis) area. Everyone who wants their canvas / frames to look right knows him. He is reasonable, but people who know nothing about what is involved in his craft constantly whine about his prices. I see what they get elsewhere...from the yard parking lot! Saggy, ill-fitting canvas on flimsy, poorly installed frames.
What MaineSail says nicely illustrates the work involved to get boat canvas properly installed. If your sensitivity is price, you have many choices in Naptown. If your sensitivity is canvas that enhances the look and function of your boat, there is one guy. I pay him his rate, or make do without. And by the way, he stands behind his work, and takes care of his customers, old-school.
What MaineSail says nicely illustrates the work involved to get boat canvas properly installed. If your sensitivity is price, you have many choices in Naptown. If your sensitivity is canvas that enhances the look and function of your boat, there is one guy. I pay him his rate, or make do without. And by the way, he stands behind his work, and takes care of his customers, old-school.
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