Rear Mast Support

[patrickfarley]

I have been working on speeding up trailer to sailing. I am trying to get it to under 30 minutes(by myself). One of the big things that slowed me was the rear support for the mast.

I made this rear support out of PVC. When the cross brace is not in place the mast is tied down to the rear railing(trailering) or if the mast is up the supports act as fishing pole holders.

I got a longer jib halyard that will run through the pulley system I have set up to raise the mast. This will save me time. Now I will slide the mast back, put in the mast bolt, tie the mast raising system in 3 places(bow and lifeline stays), attach the jib halyard to the mast raising system and run the other end of the jib halyard though the pulley and pull up the mast. Then attach the forstay and tighten. Pull the main out which is already on the boom and attach.

The other thing that slows me down is moving the rudder from the cabin to the back of the boat. It is heavy and awkward. I don't have a good answer for this one. The best I have is putting down thick towels so I can slide it over the cabin hatch and then slide it over the rear of the cockpit.

Finally I take the outboard out of the Suburban and hang it on the mount.

Then launch and sail.

I am open to any suggestions for a faster rig.

 

[patrickfarley]

I did one more thing. I added an LED anchor light. Now I can anchor out and not use up a bunch of energy.

 

[Catketch]

I singlehand most of the time and have maximized my rig for quick set up / break down. The best addition I ever made to my boat was installing a minimalist radar arch sold by Fishmaster.com designed for RIBs. I bolted a 12” x 4’ piece of painted plywood to the top and cobbled together a quick and dirty mast roller from hardware store parts and a rubber anchor roller. I also put together a mast raising pole based on the one available for the Mac 26M (there’s lots of info online about building one from scratch).

To launch, I just unfasten the mast tie downs, roll the mast back and secure to the step (it is almost effortless to do with the roller setup on the arch), rig the lifting pole, double check that my shrouds aren’t tangled and crank her up. Total rig time, including anchor and outboard mounting, is well under 30 minutes for my tall-rig boat.

If you are interested in an arch, they are being discontinued by the manufacturer but are still available at the closeout price of $175. You can find info here: http://www.fishmaster.com/products/RadarArch.htm . I probably sound like a commercial, but I have no financial interest in the company, I just love the product. It is a neat little arch that, with a little modification, works incredibly well on a Mac 25. It holds the mast high enough off the deck to allow the pop top to be deployed and makes a great mount for a solar panel and anchor holder. Mounting it without excessive flexing required a little modification so, if you decide to get one, send me a private email and I’ll give you some pointers that I had to learn through trial and error.

I trailer with my rudder mounted. I just kick it up as high as it will go and secure it with two bungee cords. I also cleat off the raising line as a failsafe in case both bungees happen to break (so far, neither one has ever broken, but I’m paranoid about the rudder dropping while on the road). The rudder sticks out a few feet from the back of the boat, but no further than the mast already does.

Hope this info is what you were looking for.

Best Wishes,
Dan
Sailorguides.com

[EDIT] I inserted some photos, but I'm not sure they made it on the page. Here's a manual link to my Facebook photo album: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.453448554724020.99698.451374631598079&type=3 or you can get there through my web site www.sailorguides.com .

 

[patrickfarley]

That arch looks great on your boat. I looked through the rest of your pictures and saw some other great ideas.

I keep my rudder on the back when I am going short distances. My rudder sticks out quite a bit. I put a red flag on it when I am on the street. If I am driving more than a few minutes I put it in the cabin. I have the same worry about the line breaking and letting the rudder down.

I have a two stroke 9.9 outboard right now. It works great but is loud and smokey. I have been looking at going 4 stroke. I noticed that you use a 6hp. How does it do in high winds and current? I don't want to get a large outboard if I can go with a smaller one and still have plenty of power for this boat size. I would have no problem with a 6hp on a lake but what about the ocean? I will definitely be getting the longest shaft possible. I hate it when the prop comes out of the water.

 

[Erik V]

Patrick
where did you get the mast head casting. I have been looking for one for my M25 my halyard is on a cheek block near the top of the mast.
Erik

 

[patrickfarley]

I bought my boat second hand and it came like this except for the light.

 

[centerline]

if you have a desire to do so and your rigging is the basic macgregor setup, you can have the boat ready to sail in 20 minutes, give or take a couple....

the pvc support as you have it will save lots of hassle as it allows the mast to slide easily a keeps the rigging gathered so it doest slip off the side of the railing and tangle on something...

as for the rudder, keeping it in the cabin is the biggest, single loss of time you will ever have when rigging or derigging the boat.
I keep mine in the cockpit rather than the cabin. it is a folding model and i keep it locked straight so it doesnt fold up when im handling it.
with two cheap throwable cushions placed on the starboard settee for it to set on, and the rudder board towards the bulkhead and the post running aft. the tiller will lay across the rear of the footwell to the port settee. it rides very well at 75 and 80 mph if you should ever be in a real hurry to get to the water.
to get it to the ground, i will stand it up on the settee, then lower it over the side, then use a dock line to lower it to lay on the ground. its quick and out of the way the very first thing, and can lay there until I decide to get down and attach it after getting other stuff ready.

as for the motor, I keep mine on the boat. but you have to use a special procedure to secure it when hauling it that way.
i have a length of line that i tie to the aft starboard cleat, then it goes to and around the rear of the motor, then up to and around the port winch a few times, then to the jib sheet camcleat... with this I can tighten the line and lift on the motor, then tighten some more until when i shake the motor, all the slack is out of it and the whole boat and motor moves as one, rather than the motor bouncing on the bracket and transom.
its very secure and unloads the majority of the weight from transom while keeping the motor from flopping around when you hit a bump.

other than technique with no wasted moves, i dont think there is anything more you can do to speed up the process.

but then when you start adding things like reefing, preventor-boom brake, downhauls, topping lift, deck organizers to run the cabintop control lines thru, the time factor for rigging goes up dramatically....

 

[patrickfarley]

I think I will try to carry the rudder in the cockpit. I will have to look at it and see if I can sew some cushions that will fit the ends of the rudder to prevent damage and come off quickly.

 

[Catketch]

I have no complaints regarding the 6hp, although I have not pushed it through any really severe weather. I originally bought it for use with an O'Day 22 and liked it so well that I kept it when I moved up to the Mac. If I were fitting a motor to the boat from scratch, I might go with either an 8 or 9.9 just to have the extra thrust in an emergency, but it is a fine motor for normal cruising.

It's counter intuitive, but I think you actually get better fuel economy with an oversized motor rather than an undersized one, so that's another thing to consider. It is the first 4-stroke outboard I ever owned and was a huge improvement as far as noise, smell and fuel economy goes, so I would highly recommend an upgrade if you have the free funds available.

Best,
Dan

 

[patrickfarley]

I have no complaints regarding the 6hp, although I have not pushed it through any really severe weather. I originally bought it for use with an O'Day 22 and liked it so well that I kept it when I moved up to the Mac. If I were fitting a motor to the boat from scratch, I might go with either an 8 or 9.9 just to have the extra thrust in an emergency, but it is a fine motor for normal cruising.

It's counter intuitive, but I think you actually get better fuel economy with an oversized motor rather than an undersized one, so that's another thing to consider. It is the first 4-stroke outboard I ever owned and was a huge improvement as far as noise, smell and fuel economy goes, so I would highly recommend an upgrade if you have the free funds available.

Best,
Dan

Thanks for the information. I was kind of hoping that I could go with the 6hp. It would be lighter and cost less. However, I guess I will be much happier to have the extra power to help out when the conditions require it.
The noise and smell are the main reason I want to switch. I have an electric trolling motor for cruising along the shore and on quiet evenings. The 2 stroke is too loud for a relaxing cruise.

 

[Sumner]

A Johnson lever on the forestay really helps in speed and having the rigging tensioned correctly.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-24.html

We tow with the outboard also on and even the dinghy outboard on the stern...

...but have worked on the trailer so it tows better, but we did tow to Canada and back, about 3000 miles, with a Honda 8 HP and a Nissan 6 HP on the stern with the trailer when it was a single axle in the stock location. We loaded lots in the V-berth area though and it towed well.

I'm getting too old to lift even the 6 HP off and on while the boat is on the trailer.

We put the rudder in the back of the Suburban and it goes on and off in minutes. I'm chicken having it stick out there in traffic and don't like that with the outboard but now with the third bunk and the lights further back and a middle light bar below the boat I worry a little less.

I can setup at home in 30-45 minutes alone, but for our trips we pretty much figure a half day or more loading the boat at the ramp and such either ...

...in the water or on the trailer.

Good luck,

Sum

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[Sumner]

... I was kind of hoping that I could go with the 6hp.... .

I wouldn't have any quams about the 6 HP with a high thrust prop on it for the lake, but if you go to the coast and are dealing with any currents then a 8-10 HP is nice and we like the electric start as a safety option since Ruth can't pull start an outboard,

Sum

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[patrickfarley]

If I put on a Johnson Lever do I have to shorten or replace the forestay? I think I will have to get a Johnson Lever for my boat. It just won't happen this trip. Headed down to Sarasota, Fl. this Friday.

I would have to reconfigure my trailer to put more weight in the rear. Also I don't want to have an outboard on the motor mount. It is the original mount. The backing plate looks good but I think that traveling with the outboard mounted would need better support.

I plan to get a long shaft electric start 4 stroke 9.8hp. I think I will have to beef up the mount just to support the heavier 4 stroke.

 

[Sumner]

If I put on a Johnson Lever do I have to shorten or replace the forestay? I think I will have to get a Johnson Lever for my boat. It just won't happen this trip. Headed down to Sarasota, Fl. this Friday..

We got a new forestay and for us it was longer so moved it and the new shrouds up the mast a ways.

There are other options. One person I know was able to remove the turnbuckle and replace it with the Johnson lever. There are a couple length adjustments with it.

Some just end up moving the hound on the mast up a few inches to accomplish that and I see no problem with that as long as it isn't far. Ours was far enough that I wanted to move the shrouds also. We did this at the same time we went with a furler so needed a new forestay anyway to work with the furler. It was less than 50 bucks from riggingonly.com and they put the correct ends on it to work for us. If we would of stayed with a hank-on sail I could of made it the same time I made...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-24.html

...the shrouds.

There is no pat answer until you measure things like the sail and what you have now.

I'm not concerned towing with the mount I made and the way it is mounted, but I could see that being a concern for some depending on their mount unless it was an S or D and it was in the well.

Sum

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[patrickfarley]

Mine is a Macgregor 25. The motor mount hangs off the back by quite a bit.

I think I will wait on the Johnson Lever until I get back. I have a turnbuckle. I will have to measure it when I have it set up and then check out a Johnson Lever at WM and see if I can just do a direct replacement. If it is a direct replacement I think just maybe I will do it.

I take that back. I am going out to measure it after work tomorrow. This could make a big difference in set up speed.

Thank you for the extra information.

 

[Sumner]

Mine is a Macgregor 25. The motor mount hangs off the back by quite a bit.

I think I will wait on the Johnson Lever until I get back. I have a turnbuckle. I will have to measure it when I have it set up and then check out a Johnson Lever at WM and see if I can just do a direct replacement. If it is a direct replacement I think just maybe I will do it.

I take that back. I am going out to measure it after work tomorrow. This could make a big difference in set up speed.

Thank you for the extra information.

We got ours from Defender, but that could take time. It was the next larger one than what most Mac owners use so they special ordered it. We had increased the forestay to 5/32 so wanted the Johnson Lever to be as strong. Most get the one that is one size under ours and I've never heard of a problem.

On the outboard I hear you about the mount on the 25. Don't know how strong they are. How about it 25 owners what do you do?

Sum

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[centerline]

as sumner said, the johnson lever makes it quicker and easier also... it works so slick and fast to use that i forget i added it, ..... it beats turning on the turnbuckle to tension the rig.... and its always the same tension every time.

as for the 2stroke motor hanging on the transom bracket, Im sure you would be fine trailering with it on, if you added additional support like i posted earlier...
the 26 models have a different transom than we do, and some mounting brackets are better than others and offer better support, but if the transom flexes, it doesnt matter how strong the bracket is, its going to bounce and flop as it goes down the road.
others have trailered without the additional support on a cheap bracket with the motor flopping whenever they hit a bump and without incident.... but thats not my style.
I trailered mine on the original bracket without the motor tied down one time... thats all it took for me to realize that if i cared about my motor, i would find a better way to transport it... and i refused to take it off everytime.
so I tied the motor up so the flex was not on the transom, but on the rope it was tied with and it has always remained solid and without movement even on rough streets and highway
but since then I have built a different transom bracket for better motor support and to keep the viberation noise from the motor from reverbrating throughout the hull when running at half throttle....

as for your loud and smoky 2 stroke, if it starts good, but is smoking severly, something is wrong. what kind of oil do you use and how much do you mix?....is the carb adjusted correctly for lean and rich?
some containers say to mix 3oz per gallon, but 2.6 oz per gallon is a 50-1 ratio, as that is what you need.
and as for the loudness of it, it could be the viberation on the hull making it seem louder than it is... the exhaust should dump in the water and dampen the sound a lot.

i had a 7.5 johnson 2stroke on my old boat, and on this boat I have an older 10hp honda 4stroke.... the honda 4stroke is quite a bit louder with more viberation than the 2stroke johnson was.... im sure the newer motors have better sound restraint systems than the older hondas had

 

[patrickfarley]

I have a Sportwin 1961 9.9hp outboard. It starts on the second pull every time. I bought it in a non-working condition and went completely through it. I run a hot plug with 32:1 ratio. It needs this ratio because of the brass bearings. It only smokes as much as a 2 stroke is supposed to smoke(mainly at startup). It also uses fuel like crazy at anything over 3/4 throttle.

I have seen a 4 stroke Tohatsu 9.8 hp running. It was very quiet. Even when moving at a fair clip it was quiet.

Nothing is as quiet as an electric trolling motor.

 

[Sumner]

...I have seen a 4 stroke Tohatsu 9.8 hp running. It was very quiet. Even when moving at a fair clip it was quiet....

We have been very happy with the noise levels or lack thereof with the 9.8 HP Tohatsu and.....

... the 3 1/2 HP is even quieter. People that we have passed at docks have commented on how quiet it is,

Sum

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[timebandit]

Two stroke noise comes from the intake side of the motor.

Just get some air filter foam from your local motorcycle shop and stuff it in the empty air box and people will think you have a four stroke--almost.