Re-use original copper fuel tank for diesel fuel

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reefmagnet

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May 9, 2011
1,000
Hi Guys, I pulled the old copper tank out of my series 1 Vega and seen that it was in reasonably good condition over-all. I figured that with the addition of a fuel return inlet and a sight tube it can be resurrected for use with the new diesel installation.

Not so easy it seems, as a quick google reveals that there is some issue associated with using copper fuel tanks with diesel fuel, though the exact nature of the issue isn't easy to discover. The best I could establish from an actual BP document on storing diesel fuel is that diesel fuel stored in a copper tank will have a reduced shelf life. I've also heard that diesel can dissolve the copper over time (this is related to the sulfur content of the diesel, apparently) although I find that a little hard to believe due to the widespread use of copper alloyed fuel lines.

So my obvious question is - has anyone recycled the original copper tank for use with diesel (or know someone that has) and what have been the results?

Ta - Jeff
 
O

o2n7dcolin

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Jul 10, 2009
125
I think the issue may be with the diesel reacting with the solder also.
I looked into this before and went with a plastic fuel tank. Colin...
 
P

pjacobs55

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Oct 30, 2019
1,459
Hi Jeff,
Sin Tacha is using the original copper tank with Diesel fuel. I'm not sure when the conversion was done, but the Yanmar engine is a 1983 model.
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
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pjacobs55

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Oct 30, 2019
1,459
To add to my last comments,
The only issues I could find on the net were related to BioDiesel. I would think copper would act as a biocide ... it certainly works for anti-fouling paint. Anyway, my surveyor was happy with the tank, and I trust his judgement. My tank is not tinned inside.

That said, if the tank leaked out into the bilge and the automatic bilge pump emptied 33 liters of fuel into the marina, one could be faced with an angry lynch mob at the dock. With that in mind I installed a bilge pump switch that only reponds to water, either fresh or salt. For details see:
www.sintacha.com

SinTacha.com is for sale | HugeDomains

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www.sintacha.com

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
R

reefmagnet

.
May 9, 2011
1,000
Great info yet again -and that bilge switch sounds like a great idea as
well!

So, yeah I'm thinking I'll risk using it. I'll measure it up while it's out
so I can get an aluminium replacement fabricated in a hurry if I have to
down the road.
 
E

edbawden

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Jun 7, 2009
18
I work for a petro-chemical company and have just checked with our metallurgist.

Copper and copper compounds are frequently forbidden in the specifications for refineries. This is because of the reaction with caustic contained within hydrocarbons.

Quoting our metallurgist "There have been reports of copper corrosion by biodiesel, because NaOH is used as part of the biodiesel process and copper is not resistant to caustic."

I think if regular diesel is used then should find no problems. On the plus side the use of copper should be a good anti-microbial, so risk of sludge formation is reduced.

Best regards
Ed
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: autegraau@...
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 08:02:56 +1000
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Re-use original copper fuel tank for diesel fuel

Great info yet again -and that bilge switch sounds like a great idea as
well!

So, yeah I'm thinking I'll risk using it. I'll measure it up while it's out
so I can get an aluminium replacement fabricated in a hurry if I have to
down the road.
 
G

groundhogyh

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May 30, 2006
1,075
Also. That you are holding in your hands and examining a 35? Year old cu tank in good condition is maybe the answer too.
Groundhog
 
B

brockhaus77

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Jul 24, 2002
149
For what it's worth, VegaLyra also has been converted from Petrol to Diesel in the mid-eighties and the existing copper tank in the starboard cockpit locker now serves as Diesel tank (this was all done long before I bought her).
I haven't seen any problems with leakage from the tank ever, but I'm a bit doubtful about the supposed biocide advantage - over the years, I've had plenty trouble with growth in the tank, having to occasionally pump out the whole content (mostly when water got in somehow). I use Biobor (?) biocide which seems to be working o.k. (no problems recently).

- Sebastian (VegaLyra 1060)
 
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reefmagnet

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May 9, 2011
1,000
Interesting regarding water getting into the tank. When I went to remove the
old tank last week it was full to the brim of old fuel and water even though
it hadn't been used for at least the last 4 years or so. I figure water is
getting in through either the fuel filler or maybe the breather. Is there
any history of common problems with water entering the tanks? I would be
keen to know this because even if the copper tank is no good in the end, my
plan was to build a replica in aluminium.
 
S

SVFlyAway

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Oct 31, 2019
303
If the tanks were totally full the problem could be condensation. The warm
air cools at night and condenses on the tank walls. It is amazing how much
water can accumulate even over a winter.
 
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pjacobs55

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Oct 30, 2019
1,459
Hmmm .... all these years I've been keeping my tank full in the belief that a full tank does not get condensation inside. I still believe this to be true!

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
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tiempo2010

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Sep 24, 2008
346
Peter

I agree - condensation cannot form in a full tank - it comes from the
moisture in the warmed air in an empty or partially filled tank when it
comes in contact with cold surfaces like the tank walls.
 
S

SVFlyAway

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Oct 31, 2019
303
Opps, you are correct. I meant to say "if the tanks were not totally full."
No air, no condensation.

Sorry about that.
 
P

pjacobs55

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Oct 30, 2019
1,459
Very common problem when buying a boat that has been out of commission for a
year or more. Esp. in commercial boats, the tanks are often left more or
less empty and the resulting condensation and fuel dregs make an awful mess
of algae, enough to clog filters in just minutes first time the boat is
operated in lumpy seas, maybe off a lee shore. Boats have been lost for that
reason. Bottom line: essential to open up tanks when buying a boat out of
layup and the tanks are not found pressed up with fuel.Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940

This email is from a law firm and may contain information
that is privileged or confidential. If you suspect
you were not intended to receive this email,
please delete it and contact us.
 
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pelagicasd

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Jan 28, 2001
694
Chris, Keep the copper tank, With the way scrap copper prices are going it will soon be worth more than the boat! As an aside I pulled an aluminum tank from a junk pile at a marina. It had been discarded because of a leak. It looked fine on the outside but electrolysis had pitted the inside so badly that it looked like the craters on the moon. Walt

To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: svflyaway@...
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 21:44:44 -0700
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Re-use original copper fuel tank for diesel fuel




Opps, you are correct. I meant to say "if the tanks were not totally full."

No air, no condensation.
Sorry about that.
 
D

dougpol1

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Feb 13, 2010
528
I ran a machine shop for a lot of years and we were always getting
aluminum tanks in for repair. It was always electrolisis and usually
caused by the use of brass fittings screwed into the tank sometimes the
use of copper or steel tubing. This was before the use of bio fuels I
have no idea what goes on there. Doug
 
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