Re: Fresh water leak

emmajen5 · Nov 6, 2004

Steve,

There's a chance that water is getting in this way. The seal is not
great. Would this water turn up in starboard settee locker, though?
Perhaps it's getting in through the starboard cockpit locker (he
muttered to himself) Some of It could then migrate down to where I'm
finding it which is probably the lowest spot along that side as was
pointed out in Frank's post. I haven't noticed a leak there but then
I haven't had a good recent look during a hard rain.

Garry
Vega 2427 "Raven"

schroath · Nov 6, 2004

Hi,

When we purchased our Albin Vegan, the electric bilge pump was sitting on
top of the fuel tank. There was an auxiliary hand-operated pump in the
cockpit, with the hose running deep under the fuel tank. What has anyone
found to be the best bilge pump arrangement. Do you put a flotation switch
under the tank? Do you put a bilge pump under the tank?

Thanks for your help and advice.

Rick and Jody

chris20636 · Nov 6, 2004

Rick and Jody:

On VESPER, V1868, I installed a float-operated bilge pump very much as you
described; on top of the fuel tank. I bolted it to a piece of 3/4 inch wood,
sized and shaped so as to wedge into place with its sides against the port and
starboard sides of the bilge walls. I ran the pump discharge overboard through
a hole I drilled on the starboard side of the hull, and with a check valve in
the line to avoid any chance of water coming in when on a very "well-heeled"
sail. Also, I wired this pump directly to one of the batteries. This saved my
boat from taking on a lot of water more than once, and kept the batteries from
becoming salted even more.

I also had the manual pump under the aft end of the cockpit sole, on the port
side of the tiller. I mounded the pump handle on that little bulkhead just
aft of the tiller. Please remember to mount the clips for the bilge handle so
they won't interfere with the operation of the pump, or the hand that is
operating the pump.

Good Luck ................Ed

wxt8981 · Nov 7, 2004

Hi Jody;

I have my (electrical) bilge pump at the lowest point in
the bilge, with a float switch nearby. But be careful about
the location of the float switch: it must be high enough to
remain closed when the remaining water in the hose flows
back into the bilge (otherwise the float switch will go on
and off all the time!)

Wilhelm, V-257

schroath · Nov 7, 2004

Thanks Wilhelm and Ed for your responses about the bilge pump location.

Ed, your system is exactly what we have. Our concern was that the water
would have to rise pretty high before the bilge pump came on. Have you had
any experience with that?

Wilhelm, your system was what we were considering installing. Do you
recommend one pump over another or is it just a garden variety?

Thanks,

Jody

papasbackhoeinc · Nov 7, 2004

Dear Jody,

The original bilge pump in my Vega 1682 is mounted just near the rudder
mounting. Its a weak pump and the place is hard to reach.

I installed a s e c o n d bilge pump on the inside of the starboard
cubboard , where I keep the sails.

I have to open the lid and pump the bilge water out manually, it works
fine, I am not dependant on electricity.

After a few weeks there is normally approx 10 liters of water. Sometime it
smells nastily , and
I pour some deoderant fluent in the bilge.

I hope my english is clear enough.

Henk Jansen
Le Cygne V 1682
Naarden The Netherlands.

wxt8981 · Nov 7, 2004

Hi Jody;

Attwood and Rule make good pumps for bilges. I don't
recommend an automatic bilge pump, but rather install a
float switch from Rule (Rule-A-Matic float switch) But like
I wrote in my previous mail, be sure to install the float
switch high enough to prevent the switch from being
activated by the water return from the hose (install a good
garden hose back, but install a loop to prevent water from
coming in)
I also have the manual bilge pump that comes standard in a
Vega, though I hardly ever use it)

Wilhelm, V-257

rolyatad · Nov 8, 2004

I see mention of bilge pump float switch quick cycling. To preclude
that, I use two float switches, wired so that the upper one turns the
pump on, and the lower one turns it off. This is per Gladstone
in "More Boatkeeper."

You can see photos in the files section under "12VDC." There are a
couple of photos showing the pump/float switch assembly, and a couple
show the operating relay in the electrical panel. Of course in Vega
#712 there is no diesel tank in the keel.

The file ought to have been titled, "Cheap Electrical Improvements."

wxt8981 · Nov 8, 2004

Hi Doug;

using two float switches like you note is quite okay.
Though I like to keep it as simple as possible. One switch
is enough to go wrong....
I just fiberglassed a small piece of wood (as a base of the
switch) at the lower end of the bilge... and it worked for
the last 27 or so years.

Wilhelm, V-257

towlerg · Nov 9, 2004

Hi Dougany chance of a curcuit diagram.

Tks in advance

George "Vista" 1043

wxt8981 · Nov 9, 2004

Hi Doug;

go a any marine store, take a look at the 'Rule-A-Matic'
float switch (or any other) and you'll see the wiring
diagram.

Wilhelm, V-257

wxt8981 · Nov 9, 2004

Hi Doug;

it's me again-- I forgot to mention- should you install a
float switch then it's a good idea to also install a 3-way
Panel switch with the "automatic-off-manual" position. The
wiring is easy- the diagram comes with the switch.

Wilhelm, V-257

pelagicasd · Nov 10, 2004

Just thought I'd add my two cents worth. Put a cycle counter in the system.
It will alert you to excessive cycling of the pump. It comes on twice when
you're off the boat for a few days. Next time you're off for a few days and
when you come back and check it you find it has cycled 30 times you know you
have a new problem.
Consider using two electric pumps. Little one for routine pumping and the
biggest one you can get into the bilge for emergency use. Remember, little
boats fill and sink faster than big boats.
Loved the tall ship poem. Blender for milkshakes? Not where we are going!
We're off to La Paz and the Sea of Cortez to put Lyric back in the water.
She has been in storage way to long and I'm concerned that everything is
going to need fixing. Wish us luck. We'll blend up a few margaritas and
think off all of you. Walt

towlerg · Nov 10, 2004

I'm interested in the curcuit diagram to use two float switches that
Doug described. The object is to build in hysteresis.

George Towler "Vista" 1043

emmajen5 · Nov 11, 2004

Thanks everyone for your advice on figuring out my fresh water leak.
I now realize that the water is probably coming in via the starboard
cockpit locker and migrating along to the locker under the starboard
berth. I've found a couple of spots where it may be getting in. The
thing is is that it has probably been leaking for quite a while but I
only now have become aware of it because the drain at the bottom this
locker (under the berth) had become plugged causing the water to back
up and pool. I didn't realize there was drain there. Thanks to
Alisdair for pointing this out and suggesting the hacksaw blade
cleaning method which I utilized successfully. The water no longer
pools up under the berth at least. Now I have to work on sealing up
the spots where I think it's getting in.

Garry
Vega 2427 "Raven"

moondance5003 · Nov 12, 2004

Garry,

As a suggestion, I used some automotive weather stripping. The kind
used to seal between a toolbox or camper top and the truck itself. I
used the thin, 1-2 inch wide, high density one. I cut to length,
peeled the tape and stuck it to the underside of the cockpit seats
and sole. It has worked great now for almost a year and no leaks. It
is very inexpensive, and I will simply clean and replace it as
needed. I was amazed at the amount of water that had been coming in
through the cockpit sole and seats.

Good luck,
Robert

emmajen5 · Nov 14, 2004

Thanks Robert, I'll give it a try.

Garry

rolyatad · Nov 16, 2004

I can scan the wiring diagram from Gladstone's "More Boatkeeper." I
think I have that book at home. The inexpensive relay is readily
available at Radio Shack. It's not a "marine" device, so it wants to
be kept dry. The relay plugs into a wired base, so it can be changed
out in 5 seconds.

Its a wee bit more complicated than a single switch, and a single
switch will work just fine, mounted parallel to the centerline vice
athwartships.

I became trusting of reliable but complicated electrical circuits
during 12 years as a marine electrician at a shipyard overhauling
nucular submarines. Solid water resistant wiring connections will
help in making 12 volt things reliable.

rolyatad · Nov 22, 2004

As requested by Capt. Towlerg:
I put a pdf file of the circuit in the "12 VDC" folder in the files
section.

Another advantage of a relay, whether for two float switches or
one, is that the float switch contacts are spared full motor current,
and will last longer.