I recently purchased a 1983 O'day 23 which is in generally good condition. Although there are no soft spots on the deck I have some water penetration through some fittings installed by pervious owners. I figured I would re-bed all the deck fittings as I made the repairs to the two leaky swivel blocks only to find that all the other hardware is inaccessable as access to the fitings in behind the interior liner. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to go about doing the job of re-bedding?? John
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
L
Laurens Morel
Sounds familiair...
Hi John, Recently I posted almost the same question as you did, although related to an Oday 22. No response so far. So hopefully we can exchange any information that comes around. Thanks Laurens Morel Rotterdam, The Netherlands lmorel@wxs.nl
Hi John, Recently I posted almost the same question as you did, although related to an Oday 22. No response so far. So hopefully we can exchange any information that comes around. Thanks Laurens Morel Rotterdam, The Netherlands lmorel@wxs.nl
J
Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Rebedding
John - Ordinarily I would be a big proponent of rebedding everything preventatively but in this case I think it may be more work than its worth. If you're sure that you are not getting water into the fittings I'd leave them to avoid cutting up the headliner. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
John - Ordinarily I would be a big proponent of rebedding everything preventatively but in this case I think it may be more work than its worth. If you're sure that you are not getting water into the fittings I'd leave them to avoid cutting up the headliner. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
J
John
Justin re: cutting the headliner
Justin, From your response I assume you believe that the only solution is to cut into the liner?? Laurens, If I get any information I'll be happy to share. I'm going over to the boatyard this afternoon to see if any of the folks over there have some suggestions. John
Justin, From your response I assume you believe that the only solution is to cut into the liner?? Laurens, If I get any information I'll be happy to share. I'm going over to the boatyard this afternoon to see if any of the folks over there have some suggestions. John
D
Don Evans
Headliner Access
John, by headliner do you mean the fiberglass roof? Or is there a cloth or carpet liner? Which deck hardware are you referring too? If you suspect a need for rebedding than nothing short of complete removal of the hardware will work. The fiberglass liner will have to be cut open to access the backing nut so the hardware can be removed completely. In his book, "Sailboat Hull and Deck Repair", Don Casey suggests openning the headliner to access the backing nuts, replacing the original short bolts on the deck hardware with longer bolts that would drop them below the new access hole, using nylon spacers on the longer bolts to allow a backing plate to secure the hardware and cover the new access hole. For metal to plastic hardware I would suggest either Life Seal, or 3M4200. The secret to rebedding is to get as clean a surface as possible on either surface and to progressively tighten the fitting as the goo cures. I would strongly suggest that while your at it, you consider "potting" the deck for the hardware, by drilling a larger bolt hole, than routing out the core with a bent nail attached to your drill. Plug the hole openning from below and inject thickened epoxy into the "enlarged" hole cavity. After the epoxy has set redrill the new bolt hole through the epoxy. This guarntees that any water that does breach the fitting will not penetrate the core and render it mushy. Its a lot of work for sure but will solve an age old problem at its source. Don
John, by headliner do you mean the fiberglass roof? Or is there a cloth or carpet liner? Which deck hardware are you referring too? If you suspect a need for rebedding than nothing short of complete removal of the hardware will work. The fiberglass liner will have to be cut open to access the backing nut so the hardware can be removed completely. In his book, "Sailboat Hull and Deck Repair", Don Casey suggests openning the headliner to access the backing nuts, replacing the original short bolts on the deck hardware with longer bolts that would drop them below the new access hole, using nylon spacers on the longer bolts to allow a backing plate to secure the hardware and cover the new access hole. For metal to plastic hardware I would suggest either Life Seal, or 3M4200. The secret to rebedding is to get as clean a surface as possible on either surface and to progressively tighten the fitting as the goo cures. I would strongly suggest that while your at it, you consider "potting" the deck for the hardware, by drilling a larger bolt hole, than routing out the core with a bent nail attached to your drill. Plug the hole openning from below and inject thickened epoxy into the "enlarged" hole cavity. After the epoxy has set redrill the new bolt hole through the epoxy. This guarntees that any water that does breach the fitting will not penetrate the core and render it mushy. Its a lot of work for sure but will solve an age old problem at its source. Don
J
John
Thanks Don
Thanks for your response. I suspected that there was no easy way to do the work and you have confirmed it. Your suggestions in your response make good sense. Looks like I know what I'll be doing this Fall. Regards, John
Thanks for your response. I suspected that there was no easy way to do the work and you have confirmed it. Your suggestions in your response make good sense. Looks like I know what I'll be doing this Fall. Regards, John
R
R.W.Landau
Which parts?
John, Is it the deck hardware or the teak? If it is the teak, You could drill one locating hole through the teak into the headliner. From here you may be able to drill a hole directly below the nearest connector.Your could assess your location before drilling the next one. I am not sure the size but my 25 O'day has plugs for the hand rail on the cabin top. Rudy might sell these or have a source. I had a 23 paceship, very similar boat. I had to use a mirror to even see past the headliner then a flex extension with a Phillips head bit to remove and rebed the teak rails. Quite the two man job. Worst case, drill an over size hole with good guesses as to the location of the fasteners. If you do a good job of keeping them straight, you may be able to cover the holes with a 1/4 x 2" piece of wood attached to the cabin liner. r.w.landau
John, Is it the deck hardware or the teak? If it is the teak, You could drill one locating hole through the teak into the headliner. From here you may be able to drill a hole directly below the nearest connector.Your could assess your location before drilling the next one. I am not sure the size but my 25 O'day has plugs for the hand rail on the cabin top. Rudy might sell these or have a source. I had a 23 paceship, very similar boat. I had to use a mirror to even see past the headliner then a flex extension with a Phillips head bit to remove and rebed the teak rails. Quite the two man job. Worst case, drill an over size hole with good guesses as to the location of the fasteners. If you do a good job of keeping them straight, you may be able to cover the holes with a 1/4 x 2" piece of wood attached to the cabin liner. r.w.landau
J
John
Leak location
R.W., We had a heavy rain yesterday and I got a first hand look at some of the leaks. Not surprisingly windows/ports was one source and easily correctable. I found that the teak handrails were also a source of some intrusion and was pleased that O'day had made them accessible via the soft plugs in the overhead that you mentioned. The other source of water seems to be from the deck fittings used to secure the shrouds to the deck. These are the fittings that will require some cutting into the overhead liner. Fortunately they are not located in an area that would be cosmetically attention grabbing and as you suggested I will use plugs, probably teak rounds that I can make up, to cover the liner holes when I am done. Thanks for your interest and advice, John
R.W., We had a heavy rain yesterday and I got a first hand look at some of the leaks. Not surprisingly windows/ports was one source and easily correctable. I found that the teak handrails were also a source of some intrusion and was pleased that O'day had made them accessible via the soft plugs in the overhead that you mentioned. The other source of water seems to be from the deck fittings used to secure the shrouds to the deck. These are the fittings that will require some cutting into the overhead liner. Fortunately they are not located in an area that would be cosmetically attention grabbing and as you suggested I will use plugs, probably teak rounds that I can make up, to cover the liner holes when I am done. Thanks for your interest and advice, John
R
R.W.Landau
Shrouds
John, Look at those shroud fittings again. They are normally a stainless plate about 1" wide by 3/16" thick. The lenght is about 8 to 10".Are they not bolted to the bulkhead under the shrouds? r.w.landau
John, Look at those shroud fittings again. They are normally a stainless plate about 1" wide by 3/16" thick. The lenght is about 8 to 10".Are they not bolted to the bulkhead under the shrouds? r.w.landau
J
John
Re: Shrouds
That's what I get for not doing a careful inspection before I asked the question. As you suggested, the shroud fittings are bolted to the interior plywood bulkhead. What I mistook for bolts on deck are wood screws to provide a weather tight fit. In fact I have now stripped out everything that I could and have removed all cosmetic plugs in the liner and find that the folks at O'day made a pretty serviceable Chevy! Even the bolsters come out and my wife is ramping up to reupholster all the cushions etc. assuming that I will be successful in making things weather tight. I will complete the stripping of all teak and fittings this week and begin the process of re bedding. I do have two other questions for anyone inclined to be helpful. 1) Has anyone had any experience using gaskets in consort with marine sealant and if so does it provide a longer lasting or better seal than just using marine sealant alone? What kind of gasket material? 2) What replacements are available for the rub rails. Mine are in good shape except in two spots where they took a hit near the bow and need to be either repaired or replaced. What are the options? Regards, John
That's what I get for not doing a careful inspection before I asked the question. As you suggested, the shroud fittings are bolted to the interior plywood bulkhead. What I mistook for bolts on deck are wood screws to provide a weather tight fit. In fact I have now stripped out everything that I could and have removed all cosmetic plugs in the liner and find that the folks at O'day made a pretty serviceable Chevy! Even the bolsters come out and my wife is ramping up to reupholster all the cushions etc. assuming that I will be successful in making things weather tight. I will complete the stripping of all teak and fittings this week and begin the process of re bedding. I do have two other questions for anyone inclined to be helpful. 1) Has anyone had any experience using gaskets in consort with marine sealant and if so does it provide a longer lasting or better seal than just using marine sealant alone? What kind of gasket material? 2) What replacements are available for the rub rails. Mine are in good shape except in two spots where they took a hit near the bow and need to be either repaired or replaced. What are the options? Regards, John
L
Laurens Morel
Access to fasteners
John, Thanks for your extensive reply. At the Oday 22, at least at mine, the only hardware that can be approached via removable plugs are the handrails. So cutting holes in the interior liner seems to be the best option. I will start figuring out how and where to do this, without ruining the interior too much. (Anyone who did this in an Oday 22?) Another item I have been thinking of is trying to find a way of replacing screws by bolts at places where access from inside is impossible. This requires a kind of plug/thread that can be mounted from the outside and is strong enough. Recently I read about someone who did this by using ordinary wall plugs which he fitted into an epoxy filled hole. After the epoxy hardened the hardware was screwed into the deck. What I'm not so sure about is the strength here. Any thoughts about this? Bye and thanks again, Laurens
John, Thanks for your extensive reply. At the Oday 22, at least at mine, the only hardware that can be approached via removable plugs are the handrails. So cutting holes in the interior liner seems to be the best option. I will start figuring out how and where to do this, without ruining the interior too much. (Anyone who did this in an Oday 22?) Another item I have been thinking of is trying to find a way of replacing screws by bolts at places where access from inside is impossible. This requires a kind of plug/thread that can be mounted from the outside and is strong enough. Recently I read about someone who did this by using ordinary wall plugs which he fitted into an epoxy filled hole. After the epoxy hardened the hardware was screwed into the deck. What I'm not so sure about is the strength here. Any thoughts about this? Bye and thanks again, Laurens
J
John
Wall Fastners
Laurens, I'm no expert but I would be hesitant to use hardware that is not designed for marine use. If your research makes you confident that a specific solution is time tested and proven you may well proceed but, I'd want to have some pretty strong evidence that such a choice would not let me down at a critical moment. Perhaps some of the others on this board with some real experience in this area can offer some advice. Good luck, John
Laurens, I'm no expert but I would be hesitant to use hardware that is not designed for marine use. If your research makes you confident that a specific solution is time tested and proven you may well proceed but, I'd want to have some pretty strong evidence that such a choice would not let me down at a critical moment. Perhaps some of the others on this board with some real experience in this area can offer some advice. Good luck, John
J
Josh
Oday 22
Hmm, strange. I'll look again but as far as I could tell all the fittings on my 22 were accessible from below. At least someone cut holes or drilled the fittings all the way through and bolted them though both the top and bottom fiberglass. The positions of the holes and their accuracy was such that I assumed it was factory. Possible this was done professionally if not by the factory? Johnny Home Mechanic would have been hard pressed to do this himself! Josh
Hmm, strange. I'll look again but as far as I could tell all the fittings on my 22 were accessible from below. At least someone cut holes or drilled the fittings all the way through and bolted them though both the top and bottom fiberglass. The positions of the holes and their accuracy was such that I assumed it was factory. Possible this was done professionally if not by the factory? Johnny Home Mechanic would have been hard pressed to do this himself! Josh
L
Laurens Morel
Re: Wall fasteners
Hi John, The only reason I quoted the article about the wall plugs, was to illustrate the direction in which my thoughts were going. Don't worry: I was not considering using the same materials. I agree with you not to use solutions that raise even the slightest doubt. Especially concerning the mounting of deck hardware. But thanks for the warning anyway. I am curious though if any good alternative will come around. In fact, I did find a very (theoretically) clever and strong plug, a rubber cilinder with inside thread (metal). When putting it in the hole and thightening the bolt, the rubber squeezes underneath and inside the hole, creating a very tight and (water) close connection. If you are interested, you can check out this website: www.rawlplug.co.uk - products - construction - screw fixings - Rawlnut (TM) flexiplug Again: it might be a doubtful solution, not created for marine use. On the other hand: thinking about and searching for solutions might pay off one day... Bye, Laurens
Hi John, The only reason I quoted the article about the wall plugs, was to illustrate the direction in which my thoughts were going. Don't worry: I was not considering using the same materials. I agree with you not to use solutions that raise even the slightest doubt. Especially concerning the mounting of deck hardware. But thanks for the warning anyway. I am curious though if any good alternative will come around. In fact, I did find a very (theoretically) clever and strong plug, a rubber cilinder with inside thread (metal). When putting it in the hole and thightening the bolt, the rubber squeezes underneath and inside the hole, creating a very tight and (water) close connection. If you are interested, you can check out this website: www.rawlplug.co.uk - products - construction - screw fixings - Rawlnut (TM) flexiplug Again: it might be a doubtful solution, not created for marine use. On the other hand: thinking about and searching for solutions might pay off one day... Bye, Laurens
G
Gregory
Bedding deck fittings
With a little common sense this is very simple. First, remove deck fitting and remove/clean off ALL gaskets, caulk,etc. Make sure everything is clean. Words I have always lived by "A great foundation is the beginning of a job well done" Lay a bead of caulk around the fitting and put the fitting back in place. Tip from the pros--LIGHTLY tighten your fitting back in place, some times a hand tight is great. WAIT 24 Hours, then go back and tighten with "wrench." What you have done is squezed all the caulk down flat and formed a bonded gasket to the boat anf fitting, now with this new "gasket" you will tighten down on it
With a little common sense this is very simple. First, remove deck fitting and remove/clean off ALL gaskets, caulk,etc. Make sure everything is clean. Words I have always lived by "A great foundation is the beginning of a job well done" Lay a bead of caulk around the fitting and put the fitting back in place. Tip from the pros--LIGHTLY tighten your fitting back in place, some times a hand tight is great. WAIT 24 Hours, then go back and tighten with "wrench." What you have done is squezed all the caulk down flat and formed a bonded gasket to the boat anf fitting, now with this new "gasket" you will tighten down on it
- Status
- Not open for further replies.