Raymarine X-5 WheelPilot

[steve stark]

OK, I'm confused....
I'm sitting here unwrapping my boat show deals and planning installations. I open the brand new Raymarine X-5 and, lo and behold, the drive has a belt inside. Based on archived threads, I thought that the X-5 was supposed to continue the evolution of the S1 drive which was supposed to be beltless. I have been hasseling with my old ST4000+ for years and was looking forward to a much cleaner 'direct/geared drive'.

What gives?
Did Raymarine give up on the 'beltless' drive because of reliability problems?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Its almost false advertising as they definitely state "beltless wheeldrive". I guess they mean there is no exposed belt between their drive unit and your wheel.

 

[FastOlson]

So far, so good

I put in a new X5 system last summer, to replace an old A4000S system that I installed in '95.
Both use an enclosed belt, AFAIK.
Having never tried to access the drive unit on the new setup, I could be wrong about what is inside that cover...

I gave the old A4000S to a friend with a Catalina 38, and he's made one overnight coastal trip with it. He knows that it might not last long, but his classic Catalina did not have an AP at all.

Those belts must be pretty durable.

Best of luck with your new AP. We've only given ours some light usage days so far, but the correction algorithms seem better than in the former computer.

Cheers,
L

 

[juslookin]

Basically

I think the basic difference between the older Ray auto pilots and the X-5, is the gyro built into the unit, which makes it no longer require the rudder sensor. As explained to me by a tech at Ray Marine, they added the necessity for the rudder sensor to make the units work a lot better. Then the rudder sensors proved to be a major complaint, as they can be a real PITA to install. My understanding is you can add the gyro to the older units, for 400 bucks, and you have an X-5.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Here is some text regarding the X-5: "The innovative Raymarine SmartPilot X-5 Wheel autopilot is equipped with the fully enclosed MkII wheel-drive for simple installation and below deck autopilot performance."
And then for a spare belt: "This replacement Autopilot Belt is designed for the AutoHelm ST4000 and the MKII Raytheon Auto Pilot Fits Units with Gray Housing Cover Only. Carry as a spare." From the Defender catalog.

P.S. - should mention that my old Simrad WP30 has the internal belt. It has steered the 18000# H37C for ten years or more. I do carry a spare. So not sure why you are concerned about the belt.

 

[Maine Sail]

The S1 and the X5 use the same wheel drive and they have always been belts just like the older ST4000+ MK II was. They are not however external belts like the older Autohelm units.

The X5 still NEEDS a rudder position sensor to steer as well as the older S1's with the RPS. The gyro, as much as they would have liked it to, does NOT solve the issues completely. The rudder position sensors can be a PITA to install on some boats but they can be installed and are worth every penny.

We use an S1G (S1 with rate gyro & RPS) and actually chose that over the X5 computer...

 

[steve stark]

As always, thanks all for the advice. The old ST4000+ actually steered well, and so I am looking forward to adquate performance from the rate gyro. The major problem with my old unit was an inability to properly adjust the clutch in the drive ring, leading to sticking and chattering of the belt on the drive surface when disengaged. That, plus many, many repairs to the wheels that captured the two halves have led me to conclude that the alignment is just not going to be good enough for smooth operation.

In looking at the X-5 drive, there are several improvements to the mechanics capturing the drive ring and the clutch idler wheel and adjustment, so I am going to go for the install. I do note that the motor drive gear is somewhat larger than the old system, so hopefully the loss in gear ratio will not be an issue as my helm has a fairly hard pull to port when motoring only (I presume this is prop-wash on the blade rudder).

Maine... point well taken. I had to fuss for some time on the ST4000+ with various settings in the controller to obtain good course-keeping. A rudder sensor would have saved me a lot of grief in dialing-in that system. I will keep the sensor in mind should the rate-gyro system not perform adequately. My normal sailing pattern has me in protected waters with mild seas, and we usually only engage Otto when motoring in still airs, or raising sail, so I suspect I will be fine with the sensorless system.

 

[alexco38]

4000 vs X5

I fixed my friend's 4000 drive. The idler roller was'nt correctly assembled from the factory. Once that was corrected the chatter was gone. 3 yrs of weekly racing no problem.

I bought an x5 and it works great. The advance leaning feature takes 5-6 zig zag. Once done it sails better than the 4000 with no rudder sensor. Wave from behind is the best. It keeps a pretty line.

 

[kloudie1]

I agree with MaineSail, I fought my 4000+ for a few years to try to get it to drive in a straight line.. I even had a list of setting combinations that I could plug in to get almost acceptable driving under different conditions.. I had a set for up wind and downwind and a set for cross wind.. a real pain.. then after I put the RPS on, it got to where it can drive for hours in changing conditions .. GREAT.. I hope ya don't have to add one, Steve, but if ya can't get it to drive correctly .. don't hesitate to add the sensor.. Good luck !

 

[Dan Johnson]

Steve...

I replaced an ST-4000 with the newer S-1 (with great pricing when the X-5 came out). It's a bit more sensitive to the software settings, even with the rudder sensor and separate flux gate compass. Once you get the settings right, it works like a charm.

My old 4000's wheel clutch froze up and broke, but the belt was fine still after almost 25 years of service. The newer drives seem to have a much sturdier belt.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I think the basic difference between the older Ray auto pilots and the X-5, is the gyro built into the unit, which makes it no longer require the rudder sensor. As explained to me by a tech at Ray Marine, they added the necessity for the rudder sensor to make the units work a lot better. Then the rudder sensors proved to be a major complaint, as they can be a real PITA to install. My understanding is you can add the gyro to the older units, for 400 bucks, and you have an X-5.

PITA is right! My old venerable ST3000 is still working and doing just fine, thank you. The, IMHO, unnecessary complexities that Raymarine built in to make you spend more $$ really made me disappointed in the vendor. Their old ST1000, ST2000 and ST3000 all did very well with a simple built in compass, and NO rudder sensors. I have found that "necessary" addition to be a crock.

Now, many of you may really like your newer units, and may actually have them able to steer downwind and/or with a quartering sea. If that's true, that's great, cuz mine can't.

But the reams of discussion I've read about the rudder sensor makes me question why they had units that worked without, why they added it, and why they seem to have gone back to units without, which is where they started?

Can anyone help me understand this?

What would have made more sense would have been to start including REAL MOTORS instead of the flimsy toy motors they use. Real motors, like, say, the CPT.

 

[Bad Obsession]

I like my S1. I should probably play with the settings some, but it is a nice unit. It does drive decently upwind. In some conditions it does okay down wind, but in bad conditions you need to steer by hand, the drive unit would never keep up.

The rudder sensor is a pain to install. It is very intimidating to have to cut stuff on the boat to install it. I wanted the unit previous to the S1 but it wasn't being made.

When all is said and done, I am happy with my S1. I think that an autopilot should be standard equipment on any boat.