I bought a Raymarine St3000 autopilot from West Marine on "clearance with full manufactures warranty" a week ago. I installed it and found it had a bad compass. I sent it to raymarine as westmarine had now more in stock to swap it for me. I just got a call from Raymarine saying they are going to charge me 75$ to repair it even though it was just purchased. They said since it is out of manufacture by several years that they wont honor the 2 year manufacturer's warranty. There is no notice about this beyond it is a discontinued product on the Raymarine web site. Just thought i would give you guys a warning. Don
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They have to hoor the warrenty
the problems is that that unit was made by a compamy that was pruchased by the current company, Raymarine. They have to honor the warrenty becuase when you buy a company you have to owner it former agreements.
the problems is that that unit was made by a compamy that was pruchased by the current company, Raymarine. They have to honor the warrenty becuase when you buy a company you have to owner it former agreements.
Not bad, considering
$75's not bad to replace a compass - my friends paid $300 to replace a light bulb in a chartplotter that was a couple of months out of warranty. Kevin
$75's not bad to replace a compass - my friends paid $300 to replace a light bulb in a chartplotter that was a couple of months out of warranty. Kevin
Take WM to Task for it
They claim that they are so "Consumer Friendly", then ask them to resolve it.
They claim that they are so "Consumer Friendly", then ask them to resolve it.
Not bad, considering
$75's not bad to replace a compass - my friends paid $300 to replace a light bulb in a chartplotter that was a couple of months out of warranty. Kevin
$75's not bad to replace a compass - my friends paid $300 to replace a light bulb in a chartplotter that was a couple of months out of warranty. Kevin
on a unit that was purchased new in box within a
week? As for westmarine, im taking the issue to them now. I expect them to either get raymarine to honor their warranty or to issue me a store credit for the ammount im out.
week? As for westmarine, im taking the issue to them now. I expect them to either get raymarine to honor their warranty or to issue me a store credit for the ammount im out.
To don954
It was supposed to be a joke/sad commentary on Raymarine's service. $300 for a 2 yr old light bulb? $75 to fix a new/old stock compass? OTOH, they did replace my whole speed/depth instrument for me when the display went out after 2 months.
It was supposed to be a joke/sad commentary on Raymarine's service. $300 for a 2 yr old light bulb? $75 to fix a new/old stock compass? OTOH, they did replace my whole speed/depth instrument for me when the display went out after 2 months.
sorry, i was just still peeved at raymarine so i
didn't see the humor. The cold-cathode back-light is what went out for your friend? I don't know about chart plotters but on laptops that part is ~ $30 and it takes an hour to disassemble and an hour to put it back together. On the other hand, i removed, inspected, and reinstalled my S3000's compass in about 5 min before i sent it off to raymarine (didn't want to be out of it for weeks if it was just disconnected on the foil edge connector).
didn't see the humor. The cold-cathode back-light is what went out for your friend? I don't know about chart plotters but on laptops that part is ~ $30 and it takes an hour to disassemble and an hour to put it back together. On the other hand, i removed, inspected, and reinstalled my S3000's compass in about 5 min before i sent it off to raymarine (didn't want to be out of it for weeks if it was just disconnected on the foil edge connector).
I don't understand being peeved @ Raymarine
It was West Marine the West Marine sold it to you on "clearance with full manufactures warranty". Not Raymarine, all they know is that they have a warranty claim on something that hasn't been manufactured in more than two years . From what I recall Raymarine usually has a two year warrantee on most things they sell. It sounds like you did get a good deal though. Get West Marine to do the leg work --
It was West Marine the West Marine sold it to you on "clearance with full manufactures warranty". Not Raymarine, all they know is that they have a warranty claim on something that hasn't been manufactured in more than two years . From what I recall Raymarine usually has a two year warrantee on most things they sell. It sounds like you did get a good deal though. Get West Marine to do the leg work --
Warranty is typically from the date of sale...
not manuf. If you have a dated receipt the warranty should still kick in for the specified period. I fear that you are going to be caught between West and RM. I'd go for a full refund from West, otherwise it's going to be a tough go. Each is going to point you to the other one. If you push West, they will probably give you a good deal on a newer model unit. Hopefully you charged the West purchase. If so, dispute the charge and let them deal with the bank.
not manuf. If you have a dated receipt the warranty should still kick in for the specified period. I fear that you are going to be caught between West and RM. I'd go for a full refund from West, otherwise it's going to be a tough go. Each is going to point you to the other one. If you push West, they will probably give you a good deal on a newer model unit. Hopefully you charged the West purchase. If so, dispute the charge and let them deal with the bank.
of course i should be peeved at raymarine
their warranty is on their web site and there is no exception for what they are trying to claim. There is no mention on their ST3000 product info page that warranty support is discontinued. Nada.
their warranty is on their web site and there is no exception for what they are trying to claim. There is no mention on their ST3000 product info page that warranty support is discontinued. Nada.
In that case I would "escalate" the matter inside
Raymarine. You obviously got "clerked" and given a 'pat' answer from a lackey. The magic word is "escalate" , just politely ask if you could escalate this matter to the "line manager" or whomever is next in line. Get that person and explain that you don't expect to "pay" anything for a product you purchased 10 days ago from one of Raymarines largest resellers (West Marine). Also point them to their OWN "terms, conditions and limitations set forth for their U.S. Limited Warranty" http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/Default.asp?site=1&Section=3&Page=1407&Parent=379 Raymarine warrants that its products, when properly installed and used, will be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of twenty-four (24) months (with respect to VHF radios thirty-six (36) months) from the date of first purchase (the "Warranty Period"). For the purposes of this Warranty, "date of first purchase" means the date that the product was purchased by the first retail customer; (I'd still push back on West Marine also)
Raymarine. You obviously got "clerked" and given a 'pat' answer from a lackey. The magic word is "escalate" , just politely ask if you could escalate this matter to the "line manager" or whomever is next in line. Get that person and explain that you don't expect to "pay" anything for a product you purchased 10 days ago from one of Raymarines largest resellers (West Marine). Also point them to their OWN "terms, conditions and limitations set forth for their U.S. Limited Warranty" http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/Default.asp?site=1&Section=3&Page=1407&Parent=379 Raymarine warrants that its products, when properly installed and used, will be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of twenty-four (24) months (with respect to VHF radios thirty-six (36) months) from the date of first purchase (the "Warranty Period"). For the purposes of this Warranty, "date of first purchase" means the date that the product was purchased by the first retail customer; (I'd still push back on West Marine also)
Counterpoint 
Substitute another product ... say AutoCad IIRC you get free tech support for some period of time after purchase. If I buy version 2 from the discount bin for a substantial savings and the current product is version 5, should I expect them to support a several version old product just because it is new to me? I am NOT saying that RayMarine is right, but it sounds like someone got a bargain on a "several years" out of date product and expects support and service as if they bought a current product. I would not waste any time. Take it back to West Marine and get a refund. The ST3000 is 2001 vintage. If the last one was sold at the end of 2002 the warranty would be over in 2004 ... two years ago. Is it reasonable to expect a company to support product last built in 2001 in 2006? Granted, the warranty statement puts no limits based on date of manufacture, so technically they have to support it. Do you really want a "several years" out of date product that has a problem a week after purchase? May be harsh, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Maybe you should be peeved at yourself for buying electronics from the bargain bin?
Substitute another product ... say AutoCad IIRC you get free tech support for some period of time after purchase. If I buy version 2 from the discount bin for a substantial savings and the current product is version 5, should I expect them to support a several version old product just because it is new to me? I am NOT saying that RayMarine is right, but it sounds like someone got a bargain on a "several years" out of date product and expects support and service as if they bought a current product. I would not waste any time. Take it back to West Marine and get a refund. The ST3000 is 2001 vintage. If the last one was sold at the end of 2002 the warranty would be over in 2004 ... two years ago. Is it reasonable to expect a company to support product last built in 2001 in 2006? Granted, the warranty statement puts no limits based on date of manufacture, so technically they have to support it. Do you really want a "several years" out of date product that has a problem a week after purchase? May be harsh, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Maybe you should be peeved at yourself for buying electronics from the bargain bin?
uh, no, that is why i checked the web site before
purchasing. No where did they say end of warranty support or any other like notice. Im a network engineer, im familiar with EOL products, normally if they are going to terminate warranty, in the computer industry, we get a notice & it is posted on the companies site to fore-warn potential customers. If i looked up Microsoft Windows NT 4.0, i would quickly find that no support is given and product is EOL, not just out of production. Raymarine has the exact same notice on the ST3000 that it has on the ST4000+MKII, which was just retired last month. They also don't say when they discontinued them, so i had no way of telling that it was out of production for more than 2 years.
purchasing. No where did they say end of warranty support or any other like notice. Im a network engineer, im familiar with EOL products, normally if they are going to terminate warranty, in the computer industry, we get a notice & it is posted on the companies site to fore-warn potential customers. If i looked up Microsoft Windows NT 4.0, i would quickly find that no support is given and product is EOL, not just out of production. Raymarine has the exact same notice on the ST3000 that it has on the ST4000+MKII, which was just retired last month. They also don't say when they discontinued them, so i had no way of telling that it was out of production for more than 2 years.
Good Points
I have to agree that there is nothing from RayMarine that supports their position. I sincerely hope you get satisfaction. You are the only one that can decide if pursuing the warranty issue is worth your time. I'd still have a refund or credit toward a current unit as my first goal rather than fuss with getting the ST3000 to work. At the end of the day you will have an outdated product. I hope you will share the response from both West Marine and RayMarine here. It is good to know what to expect from the companies we deal with.
I have to agree that there is nothing from RayMarine that supports their position. I sincerely hope you get satisfaction. You are the only one that can decide if pursuing the warranty issue is worth your time. I'd still have a refund or credit toward a current unit as my first goal rather than fuss with getting the ST3000 to work. At the end of the day you will have an outdated product. I hope you will share the response from both West Marine and RayMarine here. It is good to know what to expect from the companies we deal with.
raymarine
this sounds like a west marine problem - i have had a couple of warrently issues with raymarine and one time went through a company other than raymarine to get it resolved - it was one week out of warrently and raymarine replaced the unit at shipping cost only - i was also just hit my lightening and raymarine did a great job working with us to replace what had to be replaced and rebuild what could be rebuilt on the other hand we went through west marine on getting a part sent back to raymarine and it sat in their store for 3 weeks and did not go back - west marine kinda has a monolopy and does not need to provide the type of customer service to take on raymarine chuck
this sounds like a west marine problem - i have had a couple of warrently issues with raymarine and one time went through a company other than raymarine to get it resolved - it was one week out of warrently and raymarine replaced the unit at shipping cost only - i was also just hit my lightening and raymarine did a great job working with us to replace what had to be replaced and rebuild what could be rebuilt on the other hand we went through west marine on getting a part sent back to raymarine and it sat in their store for 3 weeks and did not go back - west marine kinda has a monolopy and does not need to provide the type of customer service to take on raymarine chuck
Nothing wrong with buying last years model...
Don, Regardless of what others have said, I do not believe there is anything wrong with trying to save a few bucks by buying last years model of auto pilot. It's not like there have been big breakthroughs in marine electronics lately. There really is nothing to get "outdated" on navigation gear. There is no shelf life on electronics. I expect the navigation electronics I buy to work for the next 10 years (the last set worked for 20!). And I could care less what model they are as long as they provide accurate information. Nothing says a newer model will perform as good as an older one. It may even perform worse or be built cheaper (actually that is probably the norm). In fact, I doubt any of the new offerings by Raymarine will equal the great reputation the ST3000 has for overall reliability. The only real problem you may face with an older model is what you have already run into, problems getting the item serviced by the manufacturer. But you will eventually run into the same problem even with a current model. Up until a few months ago Raymarine didn't even list the ST3000 as discontinued on their site. Raymarine should warranty the unit as long as you can produce a reciept showing a purchase date that is within the warranty period. I would argue loudly to whatever customer service supervisor I could get to listen. Not honoring the warranty is plain wrong. Maybe pointing them to this forum and the bad press they will be getting might help. Knowing they continued to refuse warranty service to you would certainly make me re-consider any future Raymarine purchase. Be sure to post the outcome here.
Don, Regardless of what others have said, I do not believe there is anything wrong with trying to save a few bucks by buying last years model of auto pilot. It's not like there have been big breakthroughs in marine electronics lately. There really is nothing to get "outdated" on navigation gear. There is no shelf life on electronics. I expect the navigation electronics I buy to work for the next 10 years (the last set worked for 20!). And I could care less what model they are as long as they provide accurate information. Nothing says a newer model will perform as good as an older one. It may even perform worse or be built cheaper (actually that is probably the norm). In fact, I doubt any of the new offerings by Raymarine will equal the great reputation the ST3000 has for overall reliability. The only real problem you may face with an older model is what you have already run into, problems getting the item serviced by the manufacturer. But you will eventually run into the same problem even with a current model. Up until a few months ago Raymarine didn't even list the ST3000 as discontinued on their site. Raymarine should warranty the unit as long as you can produce a reciept showing a purchase date that is within the warranty period. I would argue loudly to whatever customer service supervisor I could get to listen. Not honoring the warranty is plain wrong. Maybe pointing them to this forum and the bad press they will be getting might help. Knowing they continued to refuse warranty service to you would certainly make me re-consider any future Raymarine purchase. Be sure to post the outcome here.
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