Raymarine S1 autopilot

[kloudie1]

Thanks, Main.. I looked at the possibility of chafe on the cables carefully when I bought the boat (’91) and watch it every year when I do inspection. The cables do not hit the edge of the sector groove, they engage on the rounded part. You can see the slide marks/graphite on the sector groove just under the little ball socket. So far, no discernable fretting or chafe. The turning pulleys are at the bottom of their travel, and the sector is locked there by a thru bolt. I suspect that all H-34’s have this same little mismatch of angles.
Ron’s popping of the ball socket could be caused by something hitting the pushrod when hard over too. Until I put the little bend in my pushrod, it would touch the modified rudder stop and pop off.. My friend’s Beneteau 42, the one with the water tank leak, had exactly the problem you are describing about hitting end of travel on the RPS. It popped off many times and then broke the RPS once when it didn’t pop off..

 

[Maine Sail]

That's good news..

Thanks, Main.. I looked at the possibility of chafe on the cables carefully when I bought the boat (’91) and watch it every year when I do inspection. The cables do not hit the edge of the sector groove, they engage on the rounded part.

Glad to know it was a camera angle / optical illusion but I did not want to leave it un-mentioned it just in case...

 

[kloudie1]

RPS Mountings

Again, thanks, Main..(almost hijacking the thread) Always good to have another pair of educated eyes looking at stuff critically. I don’t think Hunter thought this one out all the way but the misalignment has not caused excess wear yet.. Here is the other end of the cable. The pulley is at the end of its travel .. and as you can see, it looks pretty bad… but it is not wearing the cable that I can see, and there are no broken strands (meat hooks) yet. I know that these two places of misalignment is where the first wear will show up..

 

[BroadReach]

Send It Back

Benny, in Tampa

If its not too late put the S1 auto pilot back in the box and try and get your money back.

The S1 is a klug of a unit.

Raymarine now has a X5 and X10 units that do not require rudder feed
back. Get one of theses units.

The S1 has so many things wrong with it: it is not worth the time to cover them.

The rudder feed back is the starter - then try attaching the wires to the smart pilot unit without breaking one (or several) of the spring loaded (heavly loaded I may add) wire holders.

and then try and read the instruction book on how to calibrate the S1 NG or the S1 G unit which ever one you have.

In any case I have a successful install the S1 NON G (non GyroPlus yaw sensor unit) and I am still trying to get the unit set up on my 35 foot sailboat to my satisfaction. Tomarrow will be my fourth day devoted to the claibraton god.

And believe me you will not get any help from Raymarine Tech Support.

I have a Garmin MapGPS 192C attached to the S1 NG and the interconnect via seatalk looks good.

And then when you are just about finished the question is asked - where do I put the fluxgate compass ??

And remember again every time you read the instructional book remember what type fo S1 unit you have.

As I said above your best bet is to return the S1 and get one of the new Raymarine X units

R Dean
Pensacola, Fl

 

[Stu Jackson]

And now, finally, Raymarine does: BACK TO THE FUTURE

Our ST3000 works great without a rudder sensor or any external parts. All tiller pilots do just as well without one.

Raymarine spent 10 years f-ing things up until they finally got smart and did it the right way, the way they used to do it - KISS.

Have you seen the prices of these new units? :cussing::cussing::cussing:

Unless you absolutely need to interface your stuff (which is a whole separate subject, BTW), then consider this alternative, among others that are NOT Raymarine:

http://www.cptautopilot.com/

There are a few others, too.

 

[Maine Sail]

Dean

Benny, in Tampa

If its not too late put the S1 auto pilot back in the box and try and get your money back.

The S1 is a klug of a unit.

Raymarine now has a X5 and X10 units that do not require rudder feed
back. Get one of theses units.

The S1 has so many things wrong with it: it is not worth the time to cover them.

The rudder feed back is the starter - then try attaching the wires to the smart pilot unit without breaking one (or several) of the spring loaded (heavly loaded I may add) wire holders.

and then try and read the instruction book on how to calibrate the S1 NG or the S1 G unit which ever one you have.

In any case I have a successful install the S1 NON G (non GyroPlus yaw sensor unit) and I am still trying to get the unit set up on my 35 foot sailboat to my satisfaction. Tomarrow will be my fourth day devoted to the claibraton god.

And believe me you will not get any help from Raymarine Tech Support.

I have a Garmin MapGPS 192C attached to the S1 NG and the interconnect via seatalk looks good.

And then when you are just about finished the question is asked - where do I put the fluxgate compass ??

And remember again every time you read the instructional book remember what type fo S1 unit you have.

As I said above your best bet is to return the S1 and get one of the new Raymarine X units

R Dean
Pensacola, Fl

With all due respect Dean I think your comments are a little broad based and a little pre-mature.

The X-5 took well over a year to get right, from its original stated launch date because of the software programming that went into it in order to remove the RPS (this information comes directly from Raymarine techs).

The RPS is STILL an option on the X-5, winder why?, but they have tried to delete it as standard equipment by adding a rate gyro. In my opinion the jury is still out on the X-5 as there are very few actually installed and in use at this point. This is not to say it won't be a good unit but we really just don't know yet.

As for calling the S-1 a "klug" that comment is quite off from my personal use. The S1 has been the best AP I have owned, as of yet, and I have owned many over the years from Simrad, Robertson, Raymarine & Com Nav. It steers my 17,000+ pound vessel with not even a hiccup and does so more accurately than any unit I have ever used. While I will add the rate gyro it will be for radar overlay use and not for accuracy of the pilot.

With AP's the critical details are in the set up and calibration. They really like to be set up manually in something other than the pre-determined "sail" or "power" settings.

I have installed many wires into my S1 computer and never broken any of them. I also don't find the manual all that confusing but I can guarantee you the X5 will be written in the same exact manner.

The X5 also has RPS input terminals as an option.. You will also have to ask yourself where to put the flux gate on either the X5 or the S1 as the X5 does not get rid of the flux gate.

I may eventually upgrade my course computer for the X5 box (Raymarine will do this for about $400.00) but I will certainly keep my RPS and would not be without one..

There are lots of happy S1 users out there, including myself. Mine has steered our boat flawlessly, even in quite rough following seas, and has done all this without the rate gyro.

Suggesting a yet unproven AP, that was already delayed over a year due to "issues", over one with a track record is a little premature. The S1 is a good unit and mine has been a GREAT unit.. The ONLY real differences between the S1 and X5 are the course computer that deletes the RPS as standard equipment and tries to replace this with a rate gyro and adds screws as opposed to push pins for wire attachment. The head, wheel drive and flux gate are still the same as on the S1 as far as I have seen or unless they have just recently changed the head, wheel drive or fluxgate..

Compared to the other Raymaire pilots I have owned ST-3000, ST-4000+ MKII and the Simrad units the S1 has been a true work of art comparatively speaking.

One should also not forget the added value of a rudder trim indicator for sail trim and racing...

 

[Mike G.]

Calibration Gods

Dean:

I am not mechanically inclined, so I had my S-1 professionally installed last spring. First day out, someone from the company that installed it came aboard to calibrate the system.

After about 30 minutes of having no success, he asked me where the fluxgate compass was. I had no idea since I wasn't there for the install. After tracing some cables, we found the fluxgate and the reason for the calibration troubles: I had a tool bag right next to it!!!! Ten minutes later - calibration complete.

Maybe your calibration troubles could be as simple as having metal objects within 3 feet of your fluxgate?

Mike

 

[Dan Johnson]

Claude & Maine Sail...

Thanks for the pics and mounting suggestions.

Didn't think of shortening the quadrant radius distance to increase the range of the RPS to accomodate the wide swing of the H34's rudder--excellent solution!

 

[sailaway78]

Trashing the S1

My experience has been similar to Mainesail. Love my S1, even though I did have to go through the double jointed, back breaking, seemingly impossible task of mounting the RPS.
Once that was done, the unit is great. Seems to learn the boat each time out. Also, I did not find the manual that bad. There was/is room for improvement, but it I have seen much worse. Raymarine tech support is the same. Room for improvement, but not terrible. For me it seemed to depend on which rep you got. Some are not so good, some are excellent. Best solution I found was to take names, and then try to get the one that is best for you. The X5 has been long in coming, and I don't know that I would want one of the early units since they had so many problems getting it on the market. As usual, this is one mans opinion, and is worth just about what it cost to read it.

 

[RAD]

I con cur with both MS & N&E about the performance of the S1 on my boat, I too was not waiting any more for for the X5 to show up knowing that there were problems and thats why the delayed release and I'm sure this new system will work fine and be lot easier install with out the RPS but having the rudder position is a good feature, anyway we like challenging installations

 

[sailaway78]

Inquiring minds

Broadreach,
I just have to ask, since no one else has. Do you actuallly have a X5 auto pilot installed and working. If so, how long have you had it installed, and how do you like it. If you have one on your boat, and it works, that adds some validity to your remarks. If not, you are just reading the literature and speculating.

 

[kloudie1]

The only beef I have with Raymarine about my 4000+ is that they didn’t say up front in the literature or after registration that the unit needed an RPS with my boat, or probably any boat with less than 2 turns lock-to-lock.. When I actually called, they said that the unit would really work MUCH better with the RPS. It does!

 

[Dan Johnson]

I'm replacing my ST-4000...

because the wheel unit keeps locking up with the clutch lever disengaged. Makes for some hairy moments in close quarter manuvering, like docking stern-to in my slip.

I noted the push pin slots in the computer box being quite stiff and plan to mount the unit on a backer board and bring these connections out to barrier strips below it so that standard screw-down connections can be made for all wiring.

Every one's S-1 experience are words of encouragement and reinforcement of having made the right decision!

Thanks, guys!

 

[Rick D]

Dan, Isn't That An Adjustment For That?

because the wheel unit keeps locking up with the clutch lever disengaged. Makes for some hairy moments in close quarter manuvering, like docking stern-to in my slip.

I seem to recall there was a condition that would cause that. Anyhow, it's worth an e-mail to them to check first. I had something similar which a local electronics guy remedied. It was about 15 years ago tho, so I don't remember the specifics.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Thanks, Rick...

I've torn down the drive unit and looked for bad teeth on the nylon-like gears that make up the reduction unit that drives the wheel unit. PITA to do, but found nothing wrong. Seems to "cog" when turning the wheel sharply.

There is an adjustment on the idler wheel for the belt that has an ecentric center that allows the belt to be tensioned. Adjusting it didn't hav an effect on the problem.

Suspect wear in the shaft centers of the reduction gears is allowing them to get slightly misaligned or lock up--the unit is original to the boat, making it about 25 years old.

The control head was reconditioned by Raymarine just before they discontinued support for the 4000s--it works great, especially with the wired remote. I just can't trust the wheel to turn freely when it's not engaged though.

I don't recall seeing anything in the forums on this matter, but there could be a fix out there. Who would you e-mail?

 

[Rick D]

Re: Thanks, Rick...

Darn, I don't know who you would contact other than Ray's Tech Support. I do remember some other guys had a similar issue that they also resolved so... It's the unfortunate byproduct of older electronics which is why I gave up trying to repair my ST50's and replaced them with 60's. So, I understand the problem, but hate to see you get rid of it if it's fixable. maybe someone here has experienced the same thing and got it right. I do think you were looking in the right place. Any chance the belt is stretched?

 

[Icetug]

I am wondering how durable the rudder sensor is mounted in the weather. I see the installation on the Hunter 40.5 and it is similar to what I would need to do on a Hunter 37, quadrant is topside and no way to attach the sensor to the rudder post inside the hull. Raymarine told me that the rudder sensor is not waterproof and needs to be inside. The tech stated that if didn't use a sensor I would need to send the computer in to them for installation of a rate gyro to compensate. That is why I understand the new X-5 smartpilot has a built in gyro and no sensor.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Rick...

I doubt if the belt is stretched as it engages properly and holds when the lever is locked in. The idler wheel opposite the clutch wheel at the drive head has an eccentric that can be adjusted for tension on the belt if there is a small amount of stretch. Taken apart, the belt looked fine with no flat spots, shreds, or torn teeth.

The newer S1 has a belt too, but it appears to be much more substancial.

I realize there is still value in the older ST-4000 in otherwise working order--someone else on the list has noted that and has first option on the old one when fully removed from the boat. I'm hoping to recover some of the cost of the new one that way.

 

[seadaddler]

Benny and Dan

First off Dan call Raymarine tech repair center to check out your wheel part of the Auto,I know they did check out my Drive Wheel and make sure it was working properly under warranty.
Benny here is some photo's of my rudder sensor on my 2007 Hunter maybe it is similar to the rack and pinion steering that you have.
Nick

 

[Benny]

Nick, we do have a rack and pinion system and we mounted it exactly as you have but for the fact that we had to do it down in the drain so we had to install a box to raise it 2" for level operation and to keep it dry. We have it working and will be doing the seatrial calibration next week. Thanks for the photos.