Current ST4000 autopilot on my Catalina 36 is only marginally effective at keeping course under sail and pretty much useless with much wave. I'm looking to upgrade but with mostly day sailing, with the occasion coastal cruise of 3-5 days while only 3-6 hrs between stops, I don't know that I can justify the expense of a below deck system which I know would work well. There is also the cost of installation including custom modifications for the ram, whereas another wheel mount I can install myself. Does anyone have experience with upgrading to the Raymarine EV-100 and will this offer any significant improvement in less than flat sailing conditions?
Raymarine EV-100 vs current ST4000 Autopilot
- Thread starter envisionvenicefl
- Start date
I upgraded to the EV100. Changed my life, that might be a little dramatic, but it changed the way I sailed. I had installed a NMEA 2000 network. The ST 4000 was NMEA 0183. I didn’t like it enough to fool with the data conversion. Put in the EV100 it plugged seamlessly to my network. I could now sail to wind angle, a waypoint, or a course. I mostly single handed and to have her hold dead into the wind allowed me to put up the main a lot more often. It really made single handing much easier.
Although I think a 36 footer is on the very edge of what a wheel pilot can handle. But I sure liked mine!
Although I think a 36 footer is on the very edge of what a wheel pilot can handle. But I sure liked mine!
I had an old ST4000+ on my O’Day 322. It was tired and even though I replaced the belt, it still would not hold course very well in rough seas.
Mine did not have a rudder sensor, so sometimes the AP kept trying to turn the wheel, even though it was hard over against the rudder stop, and the belt would jump teeth on the drive gear.
I suspect that the wheels and clutch were pretty worn on my old unit. I bought a new belt and that didn’t help at all…actually seemed worse.
One option I considered was to purchase a new wheel drive only and keep the old course computer, compass, etc.
something like this… about $625
The wheel drive is compatible with the older MK1 motor wires. So, you could buy one of these and upgrade just the wheel drive.
I was fortunate and found a brand new, open box, never installed ST60001+ on EBay. Listed for $1,100, but as soon as I put it on my Watch list, I got an offer to sell it for $825. I countered at $725. We settled on $800.
This system has a separate Course Computer (the ST4000 had it built into the control head). It also came with a rudder sensor, which my ST4001 did not have. The compass appears to be exactly the same between the ST4000 and the ST60001. Right now, I am still using the old compass.
The belt and motor assembly on the ST6001 seems more robust (as is the clutch). Upgrading just the wheel drive may be a really cost-effective option.
A new EV-100 is around $1,600 and it does not include a rudder sensor. I am sure the software has been updated some, but not worth the extra $800 to me.
I looked at a used linear drive that I thought I could utilize, but as you said, it needs significant mods to get a rudder arm installed and a place to mount the drive.
Cheers, and good luck,
Greg
Mine did not have a rudder sensor, so sometimes the AP kept trying to turn the wheel, even though it was hard over against the rudder stop, and the belt would jump teeth on the drive gear.
I suspect that the wheels and clutch were pretty worn on my old unit. I bought a new belt and that didn’t help at all…actually seemed worse.
One option I considered was to purchase a new wheel drive only and keep the old course computer, compass, etc.
something like this… about $625
Raymarine Wheel Drive Unit For Sailboat 723193120934 | eBay
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The wheel drive is compatible with the older MK1 motor wires. So, you could buy one of these and upgrade just the wheel drive.
I was fortunate and found a brand new, open box, never installed ST60001+ on EBay. Listed for $1,100, but as soon as I put it on my Watch list, I got an offer to sell it for $825. I countered at $725. We settled on $800.
This system has a separate Course Computer (the ST4000 had it built into the control head). It also came with a rudder sensor, which my ST4001 did not have. The compass appears to be exactly the same between the ST4000 and the ST60001. Right now, I am still using the old compass.
The belt and motor assembly on the ST6001 seems more robust (as is the clutch). Upgrading just the wheel drive may be a really cost-effective option.
A new EV-100 is around $1,600 and it does not include a rudder sensor. I am sure the software has been updated some, but not worth the extra $800 to me.
I looked at a used linear drive that I thought I could utilize, but as you said, it needs significant mods to get a rudder arm installed and a place to mount the drive.
Cheers, and good luck,
Greg
Hi,
I installed an ev 100 on my c&c 110. At 12000 the 110 was really over the limit for a wheel pilot, but as you wrote, a below deck pilot would have been way too expensive. Anyway, the ev 100 was great for motoring, and good at sailing upwind. It was terrible at sailing downwind.
my current boat came w a below deck raymarine pilot. That definitely works better than the wheel pilot.
barry
I installed an ev 100 on my c&c 110. At 12000 the 110 was really over the limit for a wheel pilot, but as you wrote, a below deck pilot would have been way too expensive. Anyway, the ev 100 was great for motoring, and good at sailing upwind. It was terrible at sailing downwind.
my current boat came w a below deck raymarine pilot. That definitely works better than the wheel pilot.
barry
Greg, thanks for your reply. I'll be checking eBay (and others) for a ST6001+ wheel as an option. I don't believe I have a rudder position sensor now, which I believe could improve my ST4000. I don't mind paying $1,600 for the EV-100 setup, but I'd just like to be fairly certain I'll see some improvement. Brian
Thanks Barry, your input (and doing some other research) appears consistent with what others are saying. Thanks
I saw a big improvement when I upgraded my C30 from the ST4000 to the EV100. The EV1, the compass, monitors something like 9 axis for heading, pitch, roll, yaw which adds to the APs abilities to hold course.
Having it connected to the Sea Talk network has advantages such as sailing to wind angle, not just a heading, and sailing to waypoints if you have a chart plotter connected to the network as well.
Mine does very well when sailing tight to the wind and down wind in 25 knots, though I'm mostly day sailing on the bay.
As @HMT2 points out, the C36 may be at the weight limit of the EV100 but so was the ST4000.
You can find the EV100 for $1475 and less when it is on sale.
When my SPX unit failed, Raymarine sold me a "refurbished" Evolution complete system (head, computer & EV1 sensor). Works great! Made the old system seem like something from the tube era.
@envisionvenicefl I installed the EV100 on my Cal 35C in 2016. At 15000lb dispalcement it is at the upper limit of the AP's capabilities. As far as holding course in calm to moderate weather it is a real worker and valuable crew member.
When the seas get above 4ft or the wind above 18-20, I prefer to be at the helm.
The new MkII wheel (grey plastic) is lighter and yet not as robust (in my opinion) as the Autohelm 4000 model. I have gone through several repairs and rebuilds in the past couple of years. While the belt has served without issue, the clutch arm failed needing replacement, and most recently I replaced the Drive ring. Parts were an issue to find. While Tech Support was good (spoke with the original Autohelm engineers in the UK) it required removal and return to Raymarine in order to get a part (or have them install a part).
I have since found a Canadian company building parts to address this issue.
3DGear Autopilot Parts and Remotes | Canada | i3DGear
Yes the EV100 has better software and sensors. It connects to the SeatalkNG system. You need a Raymarine MFD to upgrade the software or take the components to a distributer to have the software upgraded.
I am able to hold course (like an arrow) under power and easily sail in 13-15 knots wind without a rudder sensor. That said when sailng you need to balance the sails to make the control easy on the AP.
When the seas get above 4ft or the wind above 18-20, I prefer to be at the helm.
The new MkII wheel (grey plastic) is lighter and yet not as robust (in my opinion) as the Autohelm 4000 model. I have gone through several repairs and rebuilds in the past couple of years. While the belt has served without issue, the clutch arm failed needing replacement, and most recently I replaced the Drive ring. Parts were an issue to find. While Tech Support was good (spoke with the original Autohelm engineers in the UK) it required removal and return to Raymarine in order to get a part (or have them install a part).
I have since found a Canadian company building parts to address this issue.
3DGear Autopilot Parts and Remotes | Canada | i3DGear
Yes the EV100 has better software and sensors. It connects to the SeatalkNG system. You need a Raymarine MFD to upgrade the software or take the components to a distributer to have the software upgraded.
I am able to hold course (like an arrow) under power and easily sail in 13-15 knots wind without a rudder sensor. That said when sailng you need to balance the sails to make the control easy on the AP.
JSSAILES, thanks for your reply. I'd be a happy Captain to have that crew member under the conditions of acceptability that you described. And I too would prefer to be at the helm under worsening conditions. I'm glad you commented on the rudder sensor since I was wondering if it was absolutely necessary. I have read mixed opinions. But most everyone mentions balancing the sails. Which in my opinion is a good objective with or without the AP engaged.
I sailed with my “new” ST6001 today for the first time.
She sailed very well, but it was in light winds and 1-foot seas.
What I noticed most was that the wheel didn’t hunt nearly as much as my ST4000.
And I am still using the old compass. The new one that came with the new ST6001 looks exactly like the one from my ST4000, so I haven’t wired the new one in yet.
The rudder sensor should come into play when in light winds the boat doesn’t have much steerage, and the AP will keep turning the wheel (past the rudder stop and beyond). Or, when in heavy winds and not well-balanced…it won’t steer beyond the ranges set in the computer.
@jssailem, I am curious about the wheel drive failures you have experienced and if there any things to look for…
Greg
She sailed very well, but it was in light winds and 1-foot seas.
What I noticed most was that the wheel didn’t hunt nearly as much as my ST4000.
And I am still using the old compass. The new one that came with the new ST6001 looks exactly like the one from my ST4000, so I haven’t wired the new one in yet.
The rudder sensor should come into play when in light winds the boat doesn’t have much steerage, and the AP will keep turning the wheel (past the rudder stop and beyond). Or, when in heavy winds and not well-balanced…it won’t steer beyond the ranges set in the computer.
@jssailem, I am curious about the wheel drive failures you have experienced and if there any things to look for…
Greg
Yes. The drive ring developed cracks in the areas of the metal inserts. It eventually broke in multiple places.
the redesigned unit from 3DGear is believed to be stronger. I have not seen the finished product, yet. Here is the prototype.
The clutch uses a soft material. I worked with 3DGear to test new material,
And helped redesign the area on the under side. This new clutch has a larger under cut to better fit over the wheel nub. It is intended to hold the clutch. It is designed to release the clutch should the AP jam or under pressure. It is also Serbs to be quickly released it moved by the operator.
The symptoms I observed were
the redesigned unit from 3DGear is believed to be stronger. I have not seen the finished product, yet. Here is the prototype.
The clutch uses a soft material. I worked with 3DGear to test new material,
And helped redesign the area on the under side. This new clutch has a larger under cut to better fit over the wheel nub. It is intended to hold the clutch. It is designed to release the clutch should the AP jam or under pressure. It is also Serbs to be quickly released it moved by the operator.
The symptoms I observed were
- a jumping of the wheel,
- Stiff resistance to manual movement. I believe this happens when the bearings get trapped in the cracks
- Sticking or lack releasing drive ring when the clutch is released
Thanks for the notes.
How old was the unit when these issues surfaced?
Is the design of the drive ring different on the EV-100?
Greg
I believe it is lighter in density. The guy at 3D thought it was the plastic they used. And the thickness of the molded extrusion at the rivetNuts. I bought it Dec 2016. Installed in April 2017. Showed evidence of issues Sept 2019. I isolated the problems and resolved them in Oct 2021 by replacing the drive ring.
2020 doesn’t count. No real sailing accomplished.
I’d guess about 150 hrs of use.
My sense is the parts are under engineered.
2020 doesn’t count. No real sailing accomplished.
I’d guess about 150 hrs of use.
My sense is the parts are under engineered.
On your 36 I really doubt you'll be happy with either wheel pilot. I put an EV1 on our Seaward 25. It's much better than the Navico it replaced but had some of the same downwind issues you've mentioned concerning your 4000.
Our Catalina 350 has a below deck 4000 unit. Totally different animal. It hasn't skipped a beat in the 3 years we've owned the boat. Doesn't care what sea state or wind direction it's in.
If you're trying to save money over a below deck unit, have you looked into the CPT units? That would be my choice in a new one that wasn't below deck for a 36' boat.
Our Catalina 350 has a below deck 4000 unit. Totally different animal. It hasn't skipped a beat in the 3 years we've owned the boat. Doesn't care what sea state or wind direction it's in.
If you're trying to save money over a below deck unit, have you looked into the CPT units? That would be my choice in a new one that wasn't below deck for a 36' boat.
I upgraded to a EV100 systeme too. Easy to install the wiring. It uses far less power than the old ones. I sail very accurately like on train rails 
I reef a bit earlier but im still very happy. Ive sailed in 30knt + under auto pilot with no issues. A hunter 356 has steering linkage with a ratio thats geared perfect for the EV100. Maybe other boats that have a gearing or rope pulley steering systeme which needs more powerful auto pilot?
I reef a bit earlier but im still very happy. Ive sailed in 30knt + under auto pilot with no issues. A hunter 356 has steering linkage with a ratio thats geared perfect for the EV100. Maybe other boats that have a gearing or rope pulley steering systeme which needs more powerful auto pilot?Are you familiar with the "Catalina Cocktail" settings for RM wheelpilots ? The default setting are for boats with 3 or more turns to the wheel, Our Catalinas have less than 2. So you got to numb them down a little so they don't hunt back and forth overmuch. I'm using the black MKI wheeldrive because it's a better fit on my boat, the gray MKII could only fit "upside down and backward" so to speak. Go into the dealer set-up and try changing the settings, you may have to fine tune what works best for your boat.
Removed a malfunctioning gray mkII drive from a friends boat recently and when opened all the bearings fell out, the cheesy bearing ring was broken into numerous pieces. Or am I so late to the party that you already have a new one ?
Autopilot Settings (aka The Catalina Cocktail) | Catalina 36/375 International Association
Removed a malfunctioning gray mkII drive from a friends boat recently and when opened all the bearings fell out, the cheesy bearing ring was broken into numerous pieces. Or am I so late to the party that you already have a new one ?
Autopilot Settings (aka The Catalina Cocktail) | Catalina 36/375 International Association