Rant on dual helms

[jaysweet]

I spend an absurd amount of time looking at boat listings on yachtworld (because it's fun). And I have to say, there's one thing* I just can't stand, and would never consider buying. A dual helm boat with the chart plotter down at knee level on the centerline. I just don't understand how this makes any sense for... anyone over 20. Maybe this is colored by the fact that I sail in the Chesapeake, where the water is thin and you need to pay some serious attention to your depths. How the heck am I going to see ANYTHING on some plotter down where my shins live, while I'm navigating a narrow channel? I've seen a very small number of dual helm boats with a plotter at each helm, but this is really rare.

Anyway, related rants, refutations, or recriminations are welcome, or at least expected.

*Ok: also sail drives. My next rant is in the works.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Part of the advantage of the dual helm is when sailing - you can still sit on the rail where visibility is good and reach the wheel, even on modern boats with wide sterns. Unfortunately most of that advantage is undone by some of the modern designs that don’t really give good seating space behind or outboard of the wheels anyway. They’re just designed for cockpit living and easy access to the swim platform.

I agree the chartplotter location can be a problem if not designed well. Same thing with the gear shifter / throttle - I’ve seen designs at boat shows where you’d need to be stooping down to shift at ankle level - not conducive to good docking.

 

[BigEasy]

Perhaps on boats over 45’ in length, dual helms are an improvement in design & practicality. No way, no how, can I see a boat in the 30‘ range needing a dual helm setup. Overcrowds a cockpit that is short on space. The redundant rudder & helm equipment just adds more expense up front & additional maintenance costs. I wouldn’t consider purchasing a 30+ footer that has a dual helm.

 

[Indysailor]

Interestingly, I was just looking at a dual helm 40 footer with a chartplotter mounted on the cockpit table base and I thought that looked pretty difficult to use. I don't have one but I wondered how visible the screen would be through my polarized sunglasses.

Having said that, I've sailed a few wide stern,.dual rudder, hard chined yachts and I've enjoyed the performance and handling.

 

[Davidasailor26]

I don't have one but I wondered how visible the screen would be through my polarized sunglasses.

I use my plotter with polarized sunglasses all the time - no problem as long as my head is upright. If for some reason my head is sideways the glasses do cut the light, but that’s pretty rare.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I feel the same way about shift/throttle levers at shin height

 

[jssailem]

So what I read about Dual Helms is that Size Matters. It is not just the way you use it.

Multiple helms is not a new idea.

But it has evolved onto the boats of our time as a tool to improve control of larger and wider stern boat hulls.

Two helms with one rudder, or two helms and two rudders, when will the innovations or complications stop?

 

[colemj]

Is your complaint about dual helms per se, or dual helms with the chartplotter mounted low on centerline? If the latter, then I have not seen an example (chiefly because I have never looked for these designs). It seems that one advantage of dual helms is leaving the centerline open for easy access. A chartplotter mounted low there sounds like a tripping hazard.

It also seems easy to fix by putting a chartplotter on one binnacle, or even two smaller ones on each. Or a tablet on one (or both).

Mark

 

[jssailem]

Might make sense to buy a couple of tablets or iPads. Attach them to binnacle guard rails with something like this. Then you can have the tablet serve as a MFD for your chartplotter located safely in the cabin.

Lamicall makes a variety other such holders. Some might be safer than others on a boat.

 

[jaysweet]

Is your complaint about dual helms per se, or dual helms with the chartplotter mounted low on centerline? If the latter, then I have not seen an example (chiefly because I have never looked for these designs). It seems that one advantage of dual helms is leaving the centerline open for easy access. A chartplotter mounted low there sounds like a tripping hazard.

It also seems easy to fix by putting a chartplotter on one binnacle, or even two smaller ones on each. Or a tablet on one (or both).

Mark

The dual helms themselves are fine (although it seems likely that they might be harder on maintenance, as someone commented above: I wouldn't know). I actually chartered a 44' Beneteau with dual helms in 2021 on Lake Superior, and they worked well for sailing.

My problem is really just with the chartplotter location. Boats with dual helms almost always mount the chartplotter on the back end of a centerline table or console, sometimes as high as the table surface, but often much lower. The centerline table/console itself is useful, and gives you someplace to brace yourself when seated in the cockpit. I just find the low-mounted plotter to be almost useless, unless you like having to leave the wheel and kneel down to peer at the screen.

So you're right that mounting a plotter at one or preferably both helms would fix the problem, but I may have seen maybe one or two boats that have done this. It would obviously double the cost, but if you could do it: problem solved. The boats sure don't seem designed with this in mind, though. I have to agree about the throttle position as well, although that seems to be mounted high enough on many dual helm boats.

 

[colemj]

The problem must be the distance away from the helm more than the distance below the eyes? Our plotter is mounted 2' lower than my eyes sitting on the raised helm seat, and ~3' lower when standing at the helm. This seems the same as "knee level" if sitting on a cockpit seat. Looking down at it has never been an issue or difficult to pay attention both to it and what is happening around the boat.

However, it is also only mounted 2' away from the helmsperson. So 2' down and 2' away. If the one you describe is mounted much further away, then the issue might be distance rather than height.

Mark

 

[jaysweet]

Here's a random, but very typical example from Yachtworld: a 2013 Beneteau Oceanis 41. This is almost the same setup as the 44' Beneteau I chartered.

I can't accurately say how far the plotter is from your face when you're behind the wheel, but it's got to be something like 5 feet. Think about where you'd hold a book to read it, and then move it 4 or 5 feet away. Maybe this would be ok if I were 20... probably not, though.

I think I'm done beating this horse now. Just had to get it out of my system, apparently.

 

[jssailem]

@jaysweet . Those helms have ideal spots for the iPad or tablet MFD in holders on the steel bars. The image from the plotter would be in the helm's face.

As Shakespeare might intone, "Me thinks thou dost protest too much."

 

[jaysweet]

@jaysweet . Those helms have ideal spots for the iPad or tablet MFD in holders on the steel bars. The image from the plotter would be in the helm's face.

As Shakespeare might intone, "Me thinks thou dost protest too much."

Well, on the one hand, you're right John. A couple of clamp-on iPads would work, and for not much money. On the other hand, I much prefer having a permanently mounted plotter, and saving the iPad for a backup. But even if I had the iPads on my dual helms, it would bother me to have the expensive but useless plotter down where my shins could read it (if only shins could read).

Not to worry, though: this is mostly about me window shopping for boats on Yachtworld. Whether or not to buy a dual helm 40 foot boat is unlikely to be a significant problem for me to solve. Now a Tartan 3700 (or Catalina 380 or Hunter 38*) might well happen, but without the dual helm station issues.

 

[Alan Gomes]

iPads can be tough to read in the sun.

 

[colemj]

Here's a random, but very typical example from Yachtworld: a 2013 Beneteau Oceanis 41. This is almost the same setup as the 44' Beneteau I chartered.
View attachment 237965
I can't accurately say how far the plotter is from your face when you're behind the wheel, but it's got to be something like 5 feet. Think about where you'd hold a book to read it, and then move it 4 or 5 feet away. Maybe this would be ok if I were 20... probably not, though.

I think I'm done beating this horse now. Just had to get it out of my system, apparently.

I understand now. I've never seen that before, but it does look like too far away and a bad angle even for a 20yo.

How would one even operate it? When I described ours as being well below eye level and a bit away, it is still within a comfortable arm's reach to operate it.

Mark