Thanks for all of the information concerning the Doyle UPS sail. After going back to our boat yesterday and attaching the spinnacker halyard to the anchor roller pin, I realized that I had left slack in the halyard and that was why it was resting on the bow pulpit. When I applied some tension to the halyard, it was out in front of the bow pulpit. So, now I am concerned with radar and radar placement. We have a C-80 raymarine chartplotter/display on our pedistal. We are thinking about adding radar. We know that we need a dome which comes with 15 meters of cable which connects to the back of the C-80. The issue is where to connect the dome. We can connect it to the mast which would involve a mounting bracket and running the cable down through the mast through the cabin and back up through the pedistal to the C-80 and may require a longer cable. The other way would be to attach a pole to the stern behind the boom. The pole would not be quite as tall as the mast mount but would require less cable and perhaps be an easier install. Higher on the mast would give more range but lower may give better reception of items closer withing 500 feet of the boat. We welcome your comments concerning the issues to consider when selecting radar and radar placement. Thanks!
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I went through a similar thought process about a year ago, I have a Hunter 44 and installed the E-120 and ended up putting the radome on the Mast. I am happy with it. I don't know about getting any better with in 500 ft by it being lower. I paint the individual slips and entire out line of the Marina. I know with it being higher you get greater range. But you also have greater motion. I had some concerns with it being mounted low aft that I would incurr some blind spots. either way it sure is nice to have at night and low visibility My .02 Good luck
Mast Mount 25 feet above waterline
I can see boats within about a boat length with my mast mount. The range is a lot better with the mast mount. I have a 2KW and if were to do over would buy the 4KW for better resolution for not many extra dollars. I can see flying birds with the 2, but would prefer the 4KW. With a 25 foot mast mount, line of sight range is 11.66 miles for a 20 foot height object. At 12 feet, (stern pole), the range for the same target height is 8.88 miles. The mast mount range to target is 20% farther. Heeling doesn't really make that much difference as far as seeing close range. You do not need a swiveling mount or adjustable plate on top of a pole.
I can see boats within about a boat length with my mast mount. The range is a lot better with the mast mount. I have a 2KW and if were to do over would buy the 4KW for better resolution for not many extra dollars. I can see flying birds with the 2, but would prefer the 4KW. With a 25 foot mast mount, line of sight range is 11.66 miles for a 20 foot height object. At 12 feet, (stern pole), the range for the same target height is 8.88 miles. The mast mount range to target is 20% farther. Heeling doesn't really make that much difference as far as seeing close range. You do not need a swiveling mount or adjustable plate on top of a pole.
I'll second Jerry's comments!
John, we did what Jerry did and the mast mount location works really well. I think that there are a lot of good reasons to not use a stern pole on a 36, including radar performance, safety, and the stability of the mast on your stern. Raymarine sells longer cables and it's really not an issue to run it thru the mast.
John, we did what Jerry did and the mast mount location works really well. I think that there are a lot of good reasons to not use a stern pole on a 36, including radar performance, safety, and the stability of the mast on your stern. Raymarine sells longer cables and it's really not an issue to run it thru the mast.
Well,
Chucks reasons for not using a pole at the stern are just the reasons that I would recommend using just such a pole. He says everything would be bad. I say everything would be good with a pole. Think about this; When is the last time you saw an ocean racer with the radar mounted anywhere BUT at the stern on a pole. Height of the antenna has little affect on range. They say that radar is 'line of sight'. Don't believe it. Get aboard a boat in your marina and see for yourself. Mine sees out 40NMs. And it's mounted on an arch. And as far as close-in targets; they don't go away just because they're close. We have a 75 foot high steel bridge. It's image is constant on the screen with no blank spots as we go UNDER it. Oh, get the 4kw model. Can you tell that I'm opinionated about radar?
Chucks reasons for not using a pole at the stern are just the reasons that I would recommend using just such a pole. He says everything would be bad. I say everything would be good with a pole. Think about this; When is the last time you saw an ocean racer with the radar mounted anywhere BUT at the stern on a pole. Height of the antenna has little affect on range. They say that radar is 'line of sight'. Don't believe it. Get aboard a boat in your marina and see for yourself. Mine sees out 40NMs. And it's mounted on an arch. And as far as close-in targets; they don't go away just because they're close. We have a 75 foot high steel bridge. It's image is constant on the screen with no blank spots as we go UNDER it. Oh, get the 4kw model. Can you tell that I'm opinionated about radar?
Radar Location
Jerry we are considering radar with an aft pole. We have one in CT with great results. The aft pole was to keep the mast clear of what is not esential for sail operation.
Jerry we are considering radar with an aft pole. We have one in CT with great results. The aft pole was to keep the mast clear of what is not esential for sail operation.
Wallace - Where we are it makes little difference!
Fred has the practical experience with the arch height and I believe him. Mathematically, the mast works out to longer range, but Fred's experience would say different. Go with either and you will be fine. On Kentucky Lake, range isn't near the problem that it is in open ocean. With either you can see the tows at night and that is most important. If you do use the mast, buy a guard for the sail. The more important thing is to go with 4KW. I didn't, but will next time. Much better resolution with the 4. Coming in the lighthouse landing cut, I can see the small buoys out front with the 2KW, but when close to the cut, I lose the definition of it. With 4, you can see both sides coming through.
Fred has the practical experience with the arch height and I believe him. Mathematically, the mast works out to longer range, but Fred's experience would say different. Go with either and you will be fine. On Kentucky Lake, range isn't near the problem that it is in open ocean. With either you can see the tows at night and that is most important. If you do use the mast, buy a guard for the sail. The more important thing is to go with 4KW. I didn't, but will next time. Much better resolution with the 4. Coming in the lighthouse landing cut, I can see the small buoys out front with the 2KW, but when close to the cut, I lose the definition of it. With 4, you can see both sides coming through.
Well Fred, I didn't say everything was bad...
I've used a stern pole before, and it works fine. Racers don't use a mast mount because they don't want anything interfering with the slot. My main issue on the 36 is the difficulty of mounting the pole on the sugar scoop stern, plus some paranoia about having the radome at head height. In any case, follow Jerry's advice and get the 4kw-it will give you much better resolution (unless you want to buy my 2kw ;-))
I've used a stern pole before, and it works fine. Racers don't use a mast mount because they don't want anything interfering with the slot. My main issue on the 36 is the difficulty of mounting the pole on the sugar scoop stern, plus some paranoia about having the radome at head height. In any case, follow Jerry's advice and get the 4kw-it will give you much better resolution (unless you want to buy my 2kw ;-))
if you're in 14' swells...
...and the radome's only 12 feet high, you'll wish you'd gone with a mast mount. The reason racers don't mount on the mast is that they don't want the weight aloft. The reason racers take the doors off their heads is that they don't want weight below. I'm a cruiser, which is to say a former racer who saw the light. There's a door on both my heads, 300 feet of chain on the anchor, and the radar is on the mast.
...and the radome's only 12 feet high, you'll wish you'd gone with a mast mount. The reason racers don't mount on the mast is that they don't want the weight aloft. The reason racers take the doors off their heads is that they don't want weight below. I'm a cruiser, which is to say a former racer who saw the light. There's a door on both my heads, 300 feet of chain on the anchor, and the radar is on the mast.
Radar on the Arch
If you decide against the mast mount, which is what I have on my 356, you can also mount your radar on the arch. There are a couple of 356's in this area with the radar mounted on the arch. For a photo or more information, contact The Sailing Life, the Hunter dealer in Portland, Oregon.
If you decide against the mast mount, which is what I have on my 356, you can also mount your radar on the arch. There are a couple of 356's in this area with the radar mounted on the arch. For a photo or more information, contact The Sailing Life, the Hunter dealer in Portland, Oregon.
installation?
Getting ready to do the same (mast mount) on my 356. Is it necessary to drop the mast or can it be done with the mast stepped? Anyone done it themselves? Mike S/V Mermaid Hunter
Getting ready to do the same (mast mount) on my 356. Is it necessary to drop the mast or can it be done with the mast stepped? Anyone done it themselves? Mike S/V Mermaid Hunter
can be done with mast up
but you need to be careful. assuming you're installing a raymarine, the wires disconnect from the radome so you're not pulling a connector thru the mast. have lots of help, and a secure way to go up the mast. there's a wire chase in the front edge of the mast- you need to put a hole in the leading edge where you want the cable entry if there isn't one-below where the radome will sitabove that, install the radome mount-usually riveted on. drop a weighted small line down the mast and snag it thru the cable outlet at the base of the mast, then use it to pull the cable back up. install the radome with the cover removed, coonect the cable, and close it up. obviously, this is simplified, but a lot of what has to be doen is much easier with the mast down-your call.
but you need to be careful. assuming you're installing a raymarine, the wires disconnect from the radome so you're not pulling a connector thru the mast. have lots of help, and a secure way to go up the mast. there's a wire chase in the front edge of the mast- you need to put a hole in the leading edge where you want the cable entry if there isn't one-below where the radome will sitabove that, install the radome mount-usually riveted on. drop a weighted small line down the mast and snag it thru the cable outlet at the base of the mast, then use it to pull the cable back up. install the radome with the cover removed, coonect the cable, and close it up. obviously, this is simplified, but a lot of what has to be doen is much easier with the mast down-your call.
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