Radar Installation

[kimelmore]

I'm waiting for a quote back from the Raymarine dealer on installing a Radar and C70 Chartplotter on our new to us Catalina 380. The radar and plotter came with the boat and are brand new in the box never installed. I have a quote of $350 to provide a crane and $10 a day to store the mast during the work. The rigger quoted a bit under $1800 and $80 parts to unstep and step the mast, plus run the cable to the bilge. My question is to those of you that have the radar dome mounted on the back of the boat on a post. I know this would be a great deal cheaper and I'm expecting the dealer quote to show this is true. He promised both quotes. Most of my sailing is local but we are planning cruises to Mexico. Do you notice a big difference in performance with the Radar on the back of the boat mounted lower of course. I understand the advantages of the higher mounting but wonder if the extra cost is worth it. Side Note: Please don't flame me on this. I have an in depth knowledge of radar operation. My question is if it is noticeable to owners that have a post mounted dome unit.

 

[jssailem]

If you are getting one of the new digital radar units the post mount is no problem as to exposure to the crew. You should even get nice lateral images from the boat. My mast mount is old school system. I loose everything from the mast to stern. I would not want my system on a post. Might end up green like Kermit.

 

[BigEasy]

I am also considering a post mount because it would be less
expensive to install & maintain.
No crane required
No rigger required
Much shorter radar cable run with no cable extension or
Splice required
Much easier to access for maintenance
Do it yourself installation possible as mast does not require
Removal
Pole is convenient place to mount hoist for dinghy motor

 

[FastOlson]

Our boat has had it's radar on a stern pole for over 20 years, through three generations/brands of radar technology.
It is high enough that I use a three-step step ladder on the stern laz. surface to reach it.
Works great. What with the mess/hassle of running the wiring inside the spar, I would never want one mounted up on the front of the mast.
BTW, we recently changed to a digital type Lowrance unit (HD plotter and radar). The resolution is everything they say it is and more. Definitely Recommend.
Loren

 

[chuckwayne]

ditto on fast Olsen's advice! The C70 radar shouldn't be anywhere where the crew is exposed - remember the radar radiates downward at maybe 15-20 degrees. The c70 is obsolete and doesn't compare to the current systems.
We changed to a stern pole mounted simrad (same radar as lowrance) and it's fantastic. Our pole was custom from garhauer and the pole, radar, and chartplotter from Lowrance combined aren't a lot more than you're quoted to pull the mast, get a crane, etc. And it should be a simple do it yourself install

 

[jsalley]

You don't necessarily have to drop the mast (or pay someone to do the install). I've installed mast-mounted radars on my last boat, a Catalina 309, and my current boat, a Catalina 355, with the stick up. Requires a fair amount of time in a bosuns chair and a lot of cussing to get the cable through the compression post, but can be done. In fact, on the C355, I used an ATN Top Climber and did the entire job solo. PM me if you need more info or pictures.

 

[Gunni]

Was an early adopter of Navico/Simrad multi-frequency, low energy radar on a stern post. This latest generation radar is much easier to tune and use (mostly automatics) , way less power consumption, instant on, that I would be tempted to sell the older radar to someone who want's to keep a mast-mounted system operational and get the latest generation. The step up is that good. I do notice a difference with my KATO post mount with angle adjustment - resolution improves when the dome is leveled.

 

[CloudDiver]

I like the ScanStut self leveling mounts... Mast mount, Pole Mount, or Back Stay mount;
http://www.scanstrut.com/products/self-levelling-radar-mounts

I would never pay a rigger $15K to mount $5K of electronics... The bosun chair isn't that bad...

 

[Maine Sail]

Please consider that the $1800.00 you may spend in labor could be out the window pretty quickly if the radar or MFD run into issues.. That vintage of Raymaine product is, well, vintage. That gen dome is no longer even repairable and I talked to Ray a few weeks ago on fixing a C-80, "That unit us no longer repairable.".. Heck the extremely popular ST-60 instrument series are no longer repairable either. I would strongly urge you to sell it on eBay, lots of folks looking to find working domes & MFD's, and investing the proceeds into a current package that not only is repairable but is N2K as well. A lot has changed in marine electronics in the last ten + years..

 

[kimelmore]

Thank you all for the quick replies. I respect all opinions and am also very glad I took the time to ask. Thank you all for taking the time to reply. Mr. Maine Sail sir: it's been at least ten years since I took a good look at marine electronics. I can't really afford to put a lot of money into the boat right now. Sounds like I am in a quandary. I appreciate your honesty. The current instrument package is pre-ST-60 (Autohelm) and I'm already finding it near impossible to find replacement parts. Sheesh..is this a fine kettle of fish I got into or what?..Break Out Another Thousand.

 

[jssailem]

Strongly advise against any splice in the radar cable. Not a good idea. Creates al sorts of potential for signal leakage, false reflection, signal errors. Use a single antenna line as specified by the manufacture. The length will be determined by the system you have. And the fittings will be designed by the manufacturer.

 

[JamesG161]

My boat came with a "vintage" radar and chart plotter. I thought I don't need no stinkin' radar. Oh boy was I totally wrong. Radar old or new has many features that were military top secret 30 years ago.

Mount it!

If you plan for future upgrades to the newest almost 3D radar, I would put it on mid mast, but that can still be done in the future too.

By the way.. you don't have to leave your radar scanner running all the time. Being microwaved is not an issue for the power levels of sports craft radar.

I also upgraded mine on the 'boat show" specials in spring around April. Total discounted cost of my new radar and MFD and installation.... Drum roll..... $1800. (psst I sold my vintage working unit for $800). There is a market for working vintage radar and chart plotters at that price!
Jim...

 

[Rick D]

I have had Furunos mounted on a pole for 25 years on two boats. 24 miles max range, but geesh, I have it at 4 or 8 90% of the time offshore and 1 to 2 near shore. They work just fine. Plan to upgrade to a B&G pulse unit in the near future.

 

[LeoLambert310]

I'm in the process of changing out my Raymarine C-70, ST-60 and ST4000 autohelm. After looking at what changes have taken place over the last 15 years and units no longer repairable (no parts) it was a no-brainer. What I went with is Garmin as in Canada Raymarine Dealers are hard to come by and same with any repairs if required (I've been repairing current unit just to keep them working) so far the installation has been with out problem.

 

[Gunni]

The longer range radars were useful back before we had good digital weather feeds. Nearshore you can use cellular service to get that, add satellite weather to your MFD and you can track weather conditions hundreds of miles of away. The new multi-frequency radars have amazing in-close clarity, where it matters. All this stuff consumes way less amperage than the older gear, so include the savings on house battery sizing, PV power, generators, etc.

 

[JamesG161]

Nearshore you can use cellular service to get that

That is true!

But I use may radar, at times, to track whether the storm is "closing" on our boat's course and speed.

The Admiral has an iPad and the typical "Fixed" Doppler radar. My on board radar, tracks the heavy rain, relative to our boat. In fact the Admiral insisted that we were in for a blow, so we prepared for a storm.

The Captain monitored the storm and reassured her, that the storm would pass behind us

Not a drop, as the storm distanced itself from us and astern.

If you are an avid fisherman, mine has a "bird tracking" mode to follow the gulls working shrimp at the surface. Where there are shrimp, there is big fish.

Radar is a great SAFETY device.
Jim...

 

[Chevy1217]

I have a Raytheon 10 xx its a24 nm mounted on pole it works great. I don't notice any difference in performance. I used a Stripper pole the one the topless dancers use at the clubs didn't cost much either I believe around 200 and had a friend weld the top plate on used a contractors square to get the rake right on the stern then had it welded by same friend all in all total cost back then was around 375 bucks pole is still shiny just wish the girls were using it while cruising that would be a nice view. A friend spent big bucks to have a mast mount he likes mine better kickers him self I n the ass every time he travels on mine.

 

[CloudDiver]

I haven't installed a unit like this since I did a FURUNO 18 inch dome back in 2009. It required a 60 foot extension and to my surprise it was CAT 5 as I recall. Other than cable routing it was a very simple job, but from that experience I recommend this to anyone considering a mid-mast mount; I already posted the Scan Strut link, JMO but best mount on the market - but the big thing I would say if that it ultimately comes down to un-stepping the mast and no way to avoid it, just buy the extension cable! Seriously, if you are planning a serious electronics upgrade first do your research and know what you want as well as what accessories are required. Plan your window of install around a yard period when you have to un-step the mast for additional reasons. You will have maintenance on your rig that should be completed at some point, so when you are ready to do that just have the required extension cable handy to route within the mast while it is down. If you know what type of mount you will use but don't want to buy it just yet you should be able to download a paper template of the mounting holes. Go ahead and pilot drill and tap the holes to be ready, secure the bitter end of the cable with a zip tie. Some shrink wrap on the cable fitting should protect it. That process should be quick on the ground and not hold up the riggers when the mast need to go back up. Then when the time is right you only need a few minutes in the bosun chair to screw in the mount, attach the dome, and plug in the wire. Everything below deck should be plug-n-play.

 

[Maine Sail]

Forgot to mention pole vs. mast. We currently have a stern pole that was unfortunately painted around before I could remove it and fill the holes. At the next paint job the radome is going back on the spar and the pole will be removed.. For coastal use the pole works okay but in the fog, at sea, with big swells, the performance of a mast mount vs. pole, there is really no comparison in tracking. We have owned four boats with mast mounts, one with a Questus self leveling back stay mount, and one with a stern pole plus numerous power boats with low mounted radar.. Mast mount is what I prefer, for the North East, for optimal performance. If you mostly sail in protected waters then a pole is fine.

As for splicing the radar cable this is no big deal for a qualified tech, even the old school analog cables. Expect to pay about $200.00+ dollars for a "proper" old school radome cable splice. A "Eurostrip" is NOT a proper analog radar splice and a qualified tech will use the correct multi-pin connectors and a pin crimp tool and locators that runs about $600.00. Nearly every boat in Maine with a radar on the mast, which is a LOT of them, has a splice. With newer technology, that uses power & data only, splices are even easier... It may be tough even finding someone to do an old school analog cable splice as they have been gone now for about 6-10 years depending upon brand.

 

[Rick]

I agree with Maine Sail and Rick D. For the buck, the pole mount should be fine. And I say that because of your location. I have cruised the California coast for 12 years. When I have needed the radar to head to Catalina, or clear the jetti, the water has almost always been fairly calm to a docile two to three foot swell. In those situations you need to be able to see what is close, not 10 miles away which unless its a cruise ship, you wont see that far out anyway. Why lose what is close to you because your radar is 35 feet above the water? I am not implying a mast mount is a bad idea at all. Also, if you do a bit of research, the radar emmissions from a 2k radar are NIL, and that math does not include the fact that it is spinning. Dont use it for a pillow and you should be fine. Good luck and see ya round the islands!

Cheers