Among the world of cruising sailors - is any body using a radar detector like the ones they sell for fuzz buster etc to detect large boats at sea that are using their search radars ?? I have been told that the sea search radars on most large boats are in the same frequency range as the type of radars these auto fuzz busters are able to detect. RD
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
R
Ricky
D
Daniel Jonas
And then what?
So what do you do when the radar detector goes off? Slow down? I'm having trouble understanding the value. Much cheaper than what, radar too? If it is clear out, you will see the ship. If it's not, you have a radar detector making noise but providing no useful information. Might be cheaper, but I'll stick with something that tells me where that ship actually is. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
So what do you do when the radar detector goes off? Slow down? I'm having trouble understanding the value. Much cheaper than what, radar too? If it is clear out, you will see the ship. If it's not, you have a radar detector making noise but providing no useful information. Might be cheaper, but I'll stick with something that tells me where that ship actually is. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
J
Jeff Bacon
And Then What ? Well, lets see......
In the Dark, in the Fog, in low visability... I might slow down, or I might speed up I might turn the engine on I might look at the detector and see if the signal is coming from the front, or behind I might shine a light on my sail I might make a call on the VHF I might turn my engine off so I could listen for the other vessels sounds I might put a life jacket on I might get all hands on deck I think using ANY device that will make you more aware of your surroundings and environment makes all the sense in the world. I think we know it's not radar, and has limitations, but certainly better than nothing if it works. I think I'll try it next season.
In the Dark, in the Fog, in low visability... I might slow down, or I might speed up I might turn the engine on I might look at the detector and see if the signal is coming from the front, or behind I might shine a light on my sail I might make a call on the VHF I might turn my engine off so I could listen for the other vessels sounds I might put a life jacket on I might get all hands on deck I think using ANY device that will make you more aware of your surroundings and environment makes all the sense in the world. I think we know it's not radar, and has limitations, but certainly better than nothing if it works. I think I'll try it next season.
P
Pops Landing
going further
I sail now in waterways where the only radar to be detected will probably come from shore (John Law). However, like many of you, I dream of taking off forever any day now. I would be interested in how people are using it now. Where is the best place to mount? Can one rig an external attenna to these units somehow to increase their range? Are some detectors better than other? What band detection is needed? Outdated units (outdated for highway use) show up in trift stores for $10, why not?
I sail now in waterways where the only radar to be detected will probably come from shore (John Law). However, like many of you, I dream of taking off forever any day now. I would be interested in how people are using it now. Where is the best place to mount? Can one rig an external attenna to these units somehow to increase their range? Are some detectors better than other? What band detection is needed? Outdated units (outdated for highway use) show up in trift stores for $10, why not?
T
Tom S.
Daniel I can see the value when crossing oceans
One might not want to waste all that power leaving on the radar 7x24. So when out on the ocean in the middle of no where, maybe at night, this could be an early warning device (if its range is at least a couple of miles...that needs to be tested). Most large ships leave thier radars on 7x24 (whether THEY monitor their own radars is another story -- Container ships have been known to just run over smaller sailing vessels at sea - they basically just put them on autopilot) I always thought about the efficacy of using one, maybe it could wake you out of a sleep or not paying attention and get you to look around
One might not want to waste all that power leaving on the radar 7x24. So when out on the ocean in the middle of no where, maybe at night, this could be an early warning device (if its range is at least a couple of miles...that needs to be tested). Most large ships leave thier radars on 7x24 (whether THEY monitor their own radars is another story -- Container ships have been known to just run over smaller sailing vessels at sea - they basically just put them on autopilot) I always thought about the efficacy of using one, maybe it could wake you out of a sleep or not paying attention and get you to look around
R
Ron Mehringer
Directional?
Sounds like an idea worth investigating, but I see one problem. Aren't auto radar detectors directional? They use forward and reaf facing antennas. That means you may not pickup on a vessel approaching from the side until it is quite close. The flip side is once you picked up a contact, you could sweep the detector in an effort to determine where the other vessel is. Ron Mehringer h26 Hydro-Therapy
Sounds like an idea worth investigating, but I see one problem. Aren't auto radar detectors directional? They use forward and reaf facing antennas. That means you may not pickup on a vessel approaching from the side until it is quite close. The flip side is once you picked up a contact, you could sweep the detector in an effort to determine where the other vessel is. Ron Mehringer h26 Hydro-Therapy
D
Daniel Jonas
Some good ideas
Jeff, There were a few good ideas in your post. Definitely put on your life vest (mine would already be on and I have the radar). Definitely bring everyone up from down below (where I sail, you might as well leave them up, because the radar detector would probably be making noise constantly). And finally, yes, make a call on the VHF. In fact, that might be the most effective way of avoiding a serious problem at that point. A securite call with your position (you didn't try to save a few bucks on the GPS did you?) is an effective way to make sure they look a little harder to see you. Sometimes they will answer and let you know their crossing distance and if it is ahead or behind you. I think the most telling point of your post was the number of "mights". Call me cautious, but I like to know what to do, not what I might do. I've been in the fog without radar (once). Didn't like it at all. Could hear things all around me, and only get a very general sense of their relative direction. Good dead reckoning skills brought us to the other side, but I could not shake the feeling of discomfort and decided then and there that any boat that I owned that was sailed in areas or times that exposed me to low visibilty situations would be radar equipped. Consequently, I have one of the few Hunter 290's with radar (most think it overkill). It is also installed on our 356. I'm not trying to be funny here, or sarcastic. Knowing where you are, where others are, and what everyone is doing just makes good sense. I spent many years flying airplanes in stuff you might not sail in. While the radar isn't in the aircraft, the positive control is part of the process. In boats (ships), there is not positive control. We rely on our eyes, and when it gets bad, equipment, to keep us out of trouble. When all else fails, we rely on a certain amount of skill and a little luck. I worry when I see suggestions like using radar detectors in the fashion indicated. Some might think that heading off in a fog with that as their ship proximity device to be ok. That would be about the same as a pilot taking off without contacting the ATC system. Probably won't get killed or kill someone else, but might also bring down a 747. Just my humble opinion, but if you are in the fog, and have no radar information regarding nearby boats, ships, land, then everyone should already have their life vest on, probably should be on deck, a forward watch should be posted, you should be making lots of noise (fog signals come to mind), and I would be asking myself what I could have done differently to have avoided this situation. Sometimes that answer is nothing (sailboats move slow and weather can move fast), but other times the answer might make you a better Captain. I've said it here before. My first choice for safety equipment is a VHF ( I have three on my boat, two fixed, one portable), and behind that the radar. If someone held a gun to my head and told me that I had to throw one of three things overboard between my vhf, radar and gps, the gps would splash the water before you could read the end of this sentence. Respectfully submitted, Daniel Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Jeff, There were a few good ideas in your post. Definitely put on your life vest (mine would already be on and I have the radar). Definitely bring everyone up from down below (where I sail, you might as well leave them up, because the radar detector would probably be making noise constantly). And finally, yes, make a call on the VHF. In fact, that might be the most effective way of avoiding a serious problem at that point. A securite call with your position (you didn't try to save a few bucks on the GPS did you?) is an effective way to make sure they look a little harder to see you. Sometimes they will answer and let you know their crossing distance and if it is ahead or behind you. I think the most telling point of your post was the number of "mights". Call me cautious, but I like to know what to do, not what I might do. I've been in the fog without radar (once). Didn't like it at all. Could hear things all around me, and only get a very general sense of their relative direction. Good dead reckoning skills brought us to the other side, but I could not shake the feeling of discomfort and decided then and there that any boat that I owned that was sailed in areas or times that exposed me to low visibilty situations would be radar equipped. Consequently, I have one of the few Hunter 290's with radar (most think it overkill). It is also installed on our 356. I'm not trying to be funny here, or sarcastic. Knowing where you are, where others are, and what everyone is doing just makes good sense. I spent many years flying airplanes in stuff you might not sail in. While the radar isn't in the aircraft, the positive control is part of the process. In boats (ships), there is not positive control. We rely on our eyes, and when it gets bad, equipment, to keep us out of trouble. When all else fails, we rely on a certain amount of skill and a little luck. I worry when I see suggestions like using radar detectors in the fashion indicated. Some might think that heading off in a fog with that as their ship proximity device to be ok. That would be about the same as a pilot taking off without contacting the ATC system. Probably won't get killed or kill someone else, but might also bring down a 747. Just my humble opinion, but if you are in the fog, and have no radar information regarding nearby boats, ships, land, then everyone should already have their life vest on, probably should be on deck, a forward watch should be posted, you should be making lots of noise (fog signals come to mind), and I would be asking myself what I could have done differently to have avoided this situation. Sometimes that answer is nothing (sailboats move slow and weather can move fast), but other times the answer might make you a better Captain. I've said it here before. My first choice for safety equipment is a VHF ( I have three on my boat, two fixed, one portable), and behind that the radar. If someone held a gun to my head and told me that I had to throw one of three things overboard between my vhf, radar and gps, the gps would splash the water before you could read the end of this sentence. Respectfully submitted, Daniel Jonas (S/V Feije II)
D
Daniel Jonas
At sea
Tom, I appreciate your thoughts. Two miles is too close. Just did a trip from San Francisco down to Ensenada. We spent the first two and a half days in the fog. Varied from about a mile down to about a 1/4 mile. We made a habit of calling any ship within 4 miles of our position. A container ship will be doing somewhere between 15 and 20 knots I suspect. At 15 knots, they will close the two miles in 8 minutes. Not enough for me. Running the radar 24/7 can be problematic. My set allows you to set a scan every so many minutes to save energy. I've used this at anchor as an anchor watch, but never while sailing. It might be an effective way to reduce power consumption on longer voyages where fuel use (to recharge or sail out of calms) is considered as part of the overall sailing strategy and issue. I still might opt for constant radar use in times of low visibility, would depend on the particular situation. I can tell you that I have manually retreived an all chain rode anchor just to save battery power for radar use later the same day when once confronted with a low power situation and a failed charging circuit. I guess the good news is that as long as I keep my radar working, I won't have to worry too much about coming upon a guy standing on a boat in the fog pointing a radar detector at me with a surprised look on his face. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Tom, I appreciate your thoughts. Two miles is too close. Just did a trip from San Francisco down to Ensenada. We spent the first two and a half days in the fog. Varied from about a mile down to about a 1/4 mile. We made a habit of calling any ship within 4 miles of our position. A container ship will be doing somewhere between 15 and 20 knots I suspect. At 15 knots, they will close the two miles in 8 minutes. Not enough for me. Running the radar 24/7 can be problematic. My set allows you to set a scan every so many minutes to save energy. I've used this at anchor as an anchor watch, but never while sailing. It might be an effective way to reduce power consumption on longer voyages where fuel use (to recharge or sail out of calms) is considered as part of the overall sailing strategy and issue. I still might opt for constant radar use in times of low visibility, would depend on the particular situation. I can tell you that I have manually retreived an all chain rode anchor just to save battery power for radar use later the same day when once confronted with a low power situation and a failed charging circuit. I guess the good news is that as long as I keep my radar working, I won't have to worry too much about coming upon a guy standing on a boat in the fog pointing a radar detector at me with a surprised look on his face. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
- Status
- Not open for further replies.