It seems that not many Hunter Captains on HOW race their boats. I am curious as to how many of you do participate in any organized racing and would appreciate your answering these questions: Do you race your boat? If not, why? I would think all of us enjoy watching or reading about the top gun racers in the America's Cup or other pro/semi pro races but few of us have the means or inclination to get into that level of racing. There are clubs across the country where the racing is far less serious, though some clubs are very competitive. When I started sailing over a decade ago, I had no plans to race but our club members encouraged me to participate, though my 20' boat at the time was no speed burner. I soon discovered that the cameraderie and fun was great and learned more about boat handling than if I was just knocking about in my boat alone. My goals were to try not to finish last and not get anybody hurt!!!! I managed the latter but not usually the former!!! With the acquisition of my 25.5, "Honey Bear", and more skills, I soon found myself being competitive and eventually winning races. Now don't get me wrong, I'm no Gran Prix racer and our club's races could be considered as "seriously casual", but I've developed some strong friendships and am a much better sailor than I would have been without club racing. Our members take off on several charter trips a year to salt water and our racing experience really pays off in safety and enjoyment. So, please share with us your thoughts on why or why do you not race. Dick Vance H-25.5 "Honey Bear"
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life is tought enough
This might sound rude but it is not intended as such,we boat strickly for pleasure and to relax,don't need the "competive spirt". I guess some poaple are type A and some type B.
This might sound rude but it is not intended as such,we boat strickly for pleasure and to relax,don't need the "competive spirt". I guess some poaple are type A and some type B.
Time to relax
I have to agree with Pete. I sail to relax and get away from the rat race. It is my time to kick back and forget about the world, if only for the weekend. If I do want to race, I put on my running shoes and go do a 5K.
I have to agree with Pete. I sail to relax and get away from the rat race. It is my time to kick back and forget about the world, if only for the weekend. If I do want to race, I put on my running shoes and go do a 5K.
Racing is a lot of fun.
Several years ago, my sponsor to the Genesee Yacht Club invited me to crew aboard his Pearson 28 on Tuesday night club races. I said yes, and have been hooked ever since. Two years ago I started racing Liberty, my 1981 H33. It seemed as if all my sailing skills had gone out the window, and it was all I could do to finish at the end of the pack. I started making improvements, such as new sails, inside genoa sheet track, and easier to get to winches. With the new equipment, and plenty of practice, I started to finish in the top three in my fleet. I have expanded my racing to Tuesday nights, Saturday fun racing and regattas, Our famous Scotch Bonnet race across Lake Ontario and back, and now the Hospice Regatta held in August. I love it, and hope to continue. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty http;//www.lakeontariosailing.com/
Several years ago, my sponsor to the Genesee Yacht Club invited me to crew aboard his Pearson 28 on Tuesday night club races. I said yes, and have been hooked ever since. Two years ago I started racing Liberty, my 1981 H33. It seemed as if all my sailing skills had gone out the window, and it was all I could do to finish at the end of the pack. I started making improvements, such as new sails, inside genoa sheet track, and easier to get to winches. With the new equipment, and plenty of practice, I started to finish in the top three in my fleet. I have expanded my racing to Tuesday nights, Saturday fun racing and regattas, Our famous Scotch Bonnet race across Lake Ontario and back, and now the Hospice Regatta held in August. I love it, and hope to continue. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty http;//www.lakeontariosailing.com/
New Hunters Are Not Competitive
We love our boat for its intended use as a comfortable weekend cruiser. However, it is clearly not going to win any trophies at the club. I've been racing our new H376 for two seasons and constantly finish DFL against similar sized boats. The new Hunters with 110% jibs do not accelerate or point as well as other boats with 155% non-furling genoas (even with our deep keel). Unfortunately, the Lake Michigan PHRF does't take this into account although I do get a few extra seconds from my club for a furling headsail. I think that is why so few owners of new Hunter bother to race.
We love our boat for its intended use as a comfortable weekend cruiser. However, it is clearly not going to win any trophies at the club. I've been racing our new H376 for two seasons and constantly finish DFL against similar sized boats. The new Hunters with 110% jibs do not accelerate or point as well as other boats with 155% non-furling genoas (even with our deep keel). Unfortunately, the Lake Michigan PHRF does't take this into account although I do get a few extra seconds from my club for a furling headsail. I think that is why so few owners of new Hunter bother to race.
many of the new Hunters..
.. not only have small headsails which is not aan asset while beating in light winds.. but also many (especially mid 90's ones) have shallow wing keels , not benificial in same conditions, and due to B&R rigs cannot run eficiently (and every race cource has a running leg). Unrelated , many have they wide stern drag heavily in the water ,and some , like my 29.5, have a relatively small displacement/sail area ratio for a fast cruiser racer. However , although maybe not very competitve on racing arena ,they are not slow , and much depend on the specific model, choosing the deep keel version,getting some high-tech sails, and weight(leave some at home) distribution.
.. not only have small headsails which is not aan asset while beating in light winds.. but also many (especially mid 90's ones) have shallow wing keels , not benificial in same conditions, and due to B&R rigs cannot run eficiently (and every race cource has a running leg). Unrelated , many have they wide stern drag heavily in the water ,and some , like my 29.5, have a relatively small displacement/sail area ratio for a fast cruiser racer. However , although maybe not very competitve on racing arena ,they are not slow , and much depend on the specific model, choosing the deep keel version,getting some high-tech sails, and weight(leave some at home) distribution.
Gave up Racing !
I used to enjoy a few club races each year with my h34. I entered the non-spinnaker cruising class. After a while it was obvious most of the other boats in my class had mylar deck sweepers, empty water tanks, and little or no ground tackle. Having a cruiser with 100' of chain, 4 anchors, refrigeration, full tanks, live aboard stuff and dacron roller furling made it difficult to compete with the racers that decided to enter that class. To make things worse, the local club made some loop holes in the rules rules to benefit their members and help their PHRF rating. (just in case all their yelling didn'y scare away the folks that came out just for fun) They now have about half the participation they had a few years ago. Now I race once a year with other cruisers in a fun race and have no regrets retiring from the Yacht Club races. Barry s/c "PER DIEM too"
I used to enjoy a few club races each year with my h34. I entered the non-spinnaker cruising class. After a while it was obvious most of the other boats in my class had mylar deck sweepers, empty water tanks, and little or no ground tackle. Having a cruiser with 100' of chain, 4 anchors, refrigeration, full tanks, live aboard stuff and dacron roller furling made it difficult to compete with the racers that decided to enter that class. To make things worse, the local club made some loop holes in the rules rules to benefit their members and help their PHRF rating. (just in case all their yelling didn'y scare away the folks that came out just for fun) They now have about half the participation they had a few years ago. Now I race once a year with other cruisers in a fun race and have no regrets retiring from the Yacht Club races. Barry s/c "PER DIEM too"
Racing makes you a better sailor
The only true racing is one-design, but, I am a club racer and am having a ball. We don't take our cruisers and convert then to racing boats, and that is what keeps it fun. On any given race there are variables that will favor a particular boat. You will find other boats with similar ratings in the race and that will become your race within a race. Tactical manuvering and execution is the most fun, with every move there is a win or a loss, so the race becomes a series little things. In our club we have picnics after the Holiday races and some of the most fun is laughing about the mistakes we made and giving credit to a competitor. Just a note for for those who complain about there PHRF, "learn how to sail". I bought my boat 5 years ago and the previous owner said, "with it's PHRF you won't win any races" I've proved him wrong many times.
The only true racing is one-design, but, I am a club racer and am having a ball. We don't take our cruisers and convert then to racing boats, and that is what keeps it fun. On any given race there are variables that will favor a particular boat. You will find other boats with similar ratings in the race and that will become your race within a race. Tactical manuvering and execution is the most fun, with every move there is a win or a loss, so the race becomes a series little things. In our club we have picnics after the Holiday races and some of the most fun is laughing about the mistakes we made and giving credit to a competitor. Just a note for for those who complain about there PHRF, "learn how to sail". I bought my boat 5 years ago and the previous owner said, "with it's PHRF you won't win any races" I've proved him wrong many times.
I agree with Barry
I agree with "Barry". It can become more of a financial competition than racing.
I agree with "Barry". It can become more of a financial competition than racing.
I Also Agree With Barry
Several years ago, shortly after we bought our H-35, I added a tri-radial 150 and tri-radial spinnaker and a feathering prop. The boat sailed well but seconds count. There are a lot of factors that go into finishing up near the front, such as good tactics, sail trimming, helmsmanship, etc. There are other factors that also help but are not conducive to cruising and just plain having fun. Stripping the boat: As Barry mentioned, stripping everything off your boat except the bare essentials - reduction in weight makes the boat go faster. Like Barry, we have "tons" of stuff and I'm not going to take it all off just for a race. Bottom condition: Very Important!! Read "sand with 600 paper!" Actually, this is more like polishing. I've seen boats hauled just before a big race and the entire crew shows up and "polishes" the bottom. Fast bottoms can add ten or 15 percent to boat speed over the typical Trinidad orange peal bottom. PHRF Rating: This is not an exact science but the rating means a lot. A second per mile in some races can make the difference between first and fourth. Racers fight for good (read 'slow') numbers and if you're new to the system you'll probably get a number that errs on the side of being fast. Light boats: Light boats in light wind areas tend to have an advantage over heavier boats becasse they can move well in light wind. Especially if the course allows them to get up on a plane. Fix-it's: For example, fairing the keel, rudder, and boat bottom helps but is very expensive - cruisers can't afford this. In the recent Vendee Globe race (where 24 year old Ellen MacArthur finished second), the winner had swing-up rudders. This is a great drag reducer and in this round-the-world race it added up, but they cost money. The racers have to really fix up their boats for reducing drag as well as deck and rigging features that are costly and not effective on our boats. Add that to high tech sails, masts, etc. and the weekend cruiser is quickly priced out of competition. The PHRF rating does not directly take these alterations into account. Over a period of time the ratings are supposed to be revisited to eliminate sweet-hart ratings but then the skipper just buys another boat and starts over again. Having said all that, it can be fun to go out and race with the loaded down boat and give the hot dogs a run for the money, but you pretty much have to do it with tactics. You can't drag race them or you'll loose. If I race I like to do it with only one or at the most two crew compared with the racer will have lots of crew - that all adds weight and they can get into each others way. Racing can be fun if you understand how the game is played but realize you play by their rules which are no friend to the cruiser. Story: A skipper I know races a Hobie 33 and uses a porta potti. The boat rule is "He/she who uses it empties it" and he always finishes at or next to the top.
Several years ago, shortly after we bought our H-35, I added a tri-radial 150 and tri-radial spinnaker and a feathering prop. The boat sailed well but seconds count. There are a lot of factors that go into finishing up near the front, such as good tactics, sail trimming, helmsmanship, etc. There are other factors that also help but are not conducive to cruising and just plain having fun. Stripping the boat: As Barry mentioned, stripping everything off your boat except the bare essentials - reduction in weight makes the boat go faster. Like Barry, we have "tons" of stuff and I'm not going to take it all off just for a race. Bottom condition: Very Important!! Read "sand with 600 paper!" Actually, this is more like polishing. I've seen boats hauled just before a big race and the entire crew shows up and "polishes" the bottom. Fast bottoms can add ten or 15 percent to boat speed over the typical Trinidad orange peal bottom. PHRF Rating: This is not an exact science but the rating means a lot. A second per mile in some races can make the difference between first and fourth. Racers fight for good (read 'slow') numbers and if you're new to the system you'll probably get a number that errs on the side of being fast. Light boats: Light boats in light wind areas tend to have an advantage over heavier boats becasse they can move well in light wind. Especially if the course allows them to get up on a plane. Fix-it's: For example, fairing the keel, rudder, and boat bottom helps but is very expensive - cruisers can't afford this. In the recent Vendee Globe race (where 24 year old Ellen MacArthur finished second), the winner had swing-up rudders. This is a great drag reducer and in this round-the-world race it added up, but they cost money. The racers have to really fix up their boats for reducing drag as well as deck and rigging features that are costly and not effective on our boats. Add that to high tech sails, masts, etc. and the weekend cruiser is quickly priced out of competition. The PHRF rating does not directly take these alterations into account. Over a period of time the ratings are supposed to be revisited to eliminate sweet-hart ratings but then the skipper just buys another boat and starts over again. Having said all that, it can be fun to go out and race with the loaded down boat and give the hot dogs a run for the money, but you pretty much have to do it with tactics. You can't drag race them or you'll loose. If I race I like to do it with only one or at the most two crew compared with the racer will have lots of crew - that all adds weight and they can get into each others way. Racing can be fun if you understand how the game is played but realize you play by their rules which are no friend to the cruiser. Story: A skipper I know races a Hobie 33 and uses a porta potti. The boat rule is "He/she who uses it empties it" and he always finishes at or next to the top.
You Kiddin me?
It's been my experience that every/any time two boats are in the same proximity,going in the same direction, a race developes. Seriously their are probably a lot more of us racing out there than you think. I race my Legend 37.5 in a lot of the fun or holiday races ranging anywhere to a 78 mile overnighter to the local around the bouys, club races and have been fortunate to pick up my share of silver. But I'am not naive enough to beleive my boat is going to be all that competative with the serious racers, for a lot of reasons, ie My Boat
19,000 btu hvac unit , refrigation , 2/anchors with chain and rode , tv/vcr, and more damn junk than you can imagine but still with orginal stock sails ie 130% roller furling geona, ect ect. VS the stripped out, bottom and keel fared, boats with the larest in new sail technology and with the same semi-professional crew every race weekend. See you at the starting line Ron
It's been my experience that every/any time two boats are in the same proximity,going in the same direction, a race developes. Seriously their are probably a lot more of us racing out there than you think. I race my Legend 37.5 in a lot of the fun or holiday races ranging anywhere to a 78 mile overnighter to the local around the bouys, club races and have been fortunate to pick up my share of silver. But I'am not naive enough to beleive my boat is going to be all that competative with the serious racers, for a lot of reasons, ie My Boat
19,000 btu hvac unit , refrigation , 2/anchors with chain and rode , tv/vcr, and more damn junk than you can imagine but still with orginal stock sails ie 130% roller furling geona, ect ect. VS the stripped out, bottom and keel fared, boats with the larest in new sail technology and with the same semi-professional crew every race weekend. See you at the starting line RonThe most fun you can have with your clothes on
I raced an 83 H31 deep keel for many years "Bodacious" turned out to be one fast boat. Once I learned all the rules (that was the hardest part for me) and made some adjustments in my sail inventory we were almost unbeatable. I have over 55 trophies for racing that boat "club racing, and distance racing" At the end of my racing career with that boat (in my club) it was always a two boat race, me against a J30, if the wind was 12 knots or more we always beat him (Boat for Boat),less than 12kt he could beat us because of his 3000lbs lighter weight. When my family grew I sadly sold Bodacious and bought an '88 Legend 37, which I have been slowly outfitting to start racing again (cost's alot more with this boat). I did do one club race last year, my crew was, me, my wife, a 4year old, and a dog. We came in second, to who? that same J30. I cannot wait to race again. LAS
I raced an 83 H31 deep keel for many years "Bodacious" turned out to be one fast boat. Once I learned all the rules (that was the hardest part for me) and made some adjustments in my sail inventory we were almost unbeatable. I have over 55 trophies for racing that boat "club racing, and distance racing" At the end of my racing career with that boat (in my club) it was always a two boat race, me against a J30, if the wind was 12 knots or more we always beat him (Boat for Boat),less than 12kt he could beat us because of his 3000lbs lighter weight. When my family grew I sadly sold Bodacious and bought an '88 Legend 37, which I have been slowly outfitting to start racing again (cost's alot more with this boat). I did do one club race last year, my crew was, me, my wife, a 4year old, and a dog. We came in second, to who? that same J30. I cannot wait to race again. LAS
To much time and money, but I'll crew!
Long ago I had the bug really good in the Key West Naval Sailing Association. That was 20-30 Sunfish in real monthly competition year-around. I know that really getting the Lillie in condition to race is more money and fooling around than I want. Also, I just don't think the rating system will compensate fairly for her poor pointing with the shoal draft keel. But I have decided to wander over to the Fairport Tartan 10 weeknight races. I'm sure someone will want beef for the rail, and I can get some vicarious pleasure out of someone else's money and fooling around.
Long ago I had the bug really good in the Key West Naval Sailing Association. That was 20-30 Sunfish in real monthly competition year-around. I know that really getting the Lillie in condition to race is more money and fooling around than I want. Also, I just don't think the rating system will compensate fairly for her poor pointing with the shoal draft keel. But I have decided to wander over to the Fairport Tartan 10 weeknight races. I'm sure someone will want beef for the rail, and I can get some vicarious pleasure out of someone else's money and fooling around.
Raced a 31 - now I race a Legend 37
I started sailing a Hunter 31 about 10 years ago. My second year with the boat the local club members asked me to join in the Beer can races. I did not have as much fun since I was dating my wife in college. Two years ago I bought a 87 legend 37 - deep keel- and am having a bigger ball. I have outfitted her with some good North 3DL sails, and she is just the fastest thing around - in light air and heavy air. Just keep the crusing weight off when racing. Good Luck Tim Gabrielse Larry S. You'll like the 37 even better than the 31.
I started sailing a Hunter 31 about 10 years ago. My second year with the boat the local club members asked me to join in the Beer can races. I did not have as much fun since I was dating my wife in college. Two years ago I bought a 87 legend 37 - deep keel- and am having a bigger ball. I have outfitted her with some good North 3DL sails, and she is just the fastest thing around - in light air and heavy air. Just keep the crusing weight off when racing. Good Luck Tim Gabrielse Larry S. You'll like the 37 even better than the 31.
Best way to learn
I only sail my H40 in a few races a year and dont consider myself a serious racer. However I have learned more about sailing fast when racing either on my boat or crewing with others while racing. I now consider myself a cruiser but I still enjoy practicing a little sail trim and passing everyone on the water. Yes I think Hunters can be very fast boats, someone mentioned the B&R rig as a henderince. However the B&R rig was developed for racing and has been used extensively in ocean racing, ask Warren Lurrs about Hunters Child.
I only sail my H40 in a few races a year and dont consider myself a serious racer. However I have learned more about sailing fast when racing either on my boat or crewing with others while racing. I now consider myself a cruiser but I still enjoy practicing a little sail trim and passing everyone on the water. Yes I think Hunters can be very fast boats, someone mentioned the B&R rig as a henderince. However the B&R rig was developed for racing and has been used extensively in ocean racing, ask Warren Lurrs about Hunters Child.
Won Boat of the Year
I have raced for many years in the Pacific Northwest races (Swiftsure, Strait of Georgia, etc.) and had a fabulous time doing so. I have raced all my Hunters (except the Vision 32 which I just could not move) and have done well for the most part. I quit racing for awhile because I felt that the Doctors, Dentist and Big Business Owners who could buy new sails every other year were out of my league. However, when I bouoght the Hunter 35.5. I decided to give it a go again and rounded up a crew. I especially made sure the crew had never raced (or sailed for a few) and we started out learning from the start. I think the captain sets the tone for the crew. We had a number of rules that we started with. There were: 1) We're going racing to have fun 2) Keep the boat in the water and water out of the boat -OR- if I hear one splash, I want to hear two! 3) Unnecessary cheating is immoral. (I watched too many skippers unloading their boat before a race) 4) See rule number 1 However when one of the early crew members brought a case of the cheapest beer that anyone had ever found which tasted about the same, a new rule was instigated--new rule 4 was that refreshments had to be top caliber. From that time we drank microbrews, French bottled water, and ate cashews, no peanuts. With this mixed crew and the Hunter 35.5 with orignal sails and the short winged keel, we had the best time of our lives and in the third year, won boat of the year beating J35s, San Juans, Erisons, Tartan, etc. We had so much fun that we had a B crew which took the boat out on Thursdays and practiced in a beginners race series. So I had two crews essentially. The Hunter 35.5 didn't point as well as others (probably the keel) but we footed faster and keep up the pressure on the other boats. I'm not racing now because one crew member died from a stoke one New Years. He was young and we still miss him. But I'm thinking of racing again in a short crew (single handling) category. Might take some tourists to seat in the rumble seats if they like. I have several reasons for racing: one is to have fun (see rule 1), another is to learn my boat better, a third is to gain confidence in me. By the way, I refuse to protest. If another boat wrongs me, that's my problem, I probably shouldn't have been in that position in the first place. And its easier to say, "Hey, you owe me one," than to make a federal case of it. Summary, I've had fun racing and learned a lot.
I have raced for many years in the Pacific Northwest races (Swiftsure, Strait of Georgia, etc.) and had a fabulous time doing so. I have raced all my Hunters (except the Vision 32 which I just could not move) and have done well for the most part. I quit racing for awhile because I felt that the Doctors, Dentist and Big Business Owners who could buy new sails every other year were out of my league. However, when I bouoght the Hunter 35.5. I decided to give it a go again and rounded up a crew. I especially made sure the crew had never raced (or sailed for a few) and we started out learning from the start. I think the captain sets the tone for the crew. We had a number of rules that we started with. There were: 1) We're going racing to have fun 2) Keep the boat in the water and water out of the boat -OR- if I hear one splash, I want to hear two! 3) Unnecessary cheating is immoral. (I watched too many skippers unloading their boat before a race) 4) See rule number 1 However when one of the early crew members brought a case of the cheapest beer that anyone had ever found which tasted about the same, a new rule was instigated--new rule 4 was that refreshments had to be top caliber. From that time we drank microbrews, French bottled water, and ate cashews, no peanuts. With this mixed crew and the Hunter 35.5 with orignal sails and the short winged keel, we had the best time of our lives and in the third year, won boat of the year beating J35s, San Juans, Erisons, Tartan, etc. We had so much fun that we had a B crew which took the boat out on Thursdays and practiced in a beginners race series. So I had two crews essentially. The Hunter 35.5 didn't point as well as others (probably the keel) but we footed faster and keep up the pressure on the other boats. I'm not racing now because one crew member died from a stoke one New Years. He was young and we still miss him. But I'm thinking of racing again in a short crew (single handling) category. Might take some tourists to seat in the rumble seats if they like. I have several reasons for racing: one is to have fun (see rule 1), another is to learn my boat better, a third is to gain confidence in me. By the way, I refuse to protest. If another boat wrongs me, that's my problem, I probably shouldn't have been in that position in the first place. And its easier to say, "Hey, you owe me one," than to make a federal case of it. Summary, I've had fun racing and learned a lot.
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