Racer won't pay racing fees

[Ben4195]

This is more of a "what would you do?" type of scenario, purely academic as it doesn't directly affect me (except in principle), but I have learned that one of the regular racers in our Wednesday Night series has not, and does not plan to, pay his team's racing fees for the series, which I think is something along the lines of $35 for a 9 race series. This racer didn't pay the Spring racing dues either, evidently.

In all, there are probably 20-25 boats racing every Wednesday, and this person has always started with the spinnaker fleet, which is by far the most competitive with probably 10-12 boats, and this boat is a regular threat to win.

What can be done, if anything? Should anything be done? I mean, he has a right to be on the water, and as long as he obeys the sailing/racing rules can go where ever, whenever, he wants.

He doesn't get scored, but that doesn't matter to this person. He and his crew are obviously competitive because it's a regular crew, and they often race aggressively.

Has anyone else seen this happen?

 

[jviss]

Wow, what a creep! Is public shaming of him an option? Facebook, Twitter, etc.?

As far as his right to be on the water is concerned, I might do some research about him interfering in a private event, regardless of whether its in a public place.

Or, maybe you could recruit some folks to just interfere with him - legally, of course.

 

[jviss]

Another option would be for the RC to just cancel if he shows up, and tell him that the race isn't going to be conducted unless and until he leaves.

 

[markwbird]

All you can do is not score him. Let the other racers know what he is doing so that they can say something if they wish. Is he a member of the club?

 

[cb32863]

Wow, what a creep! Is public shaming of him an option? Facebook, Twitter, etc.?

As far as his right to be on the water is concerned, I might do some research about him interfering in a private event, regardless of whether its in a public place.

Or, maybe you could recruit some folks to just interfere with him - legally, of course.

Another option would be for the RC to just cancel if he shows up, and tell him that the race isn't going to be conducted unless and until he leaves.

Yeah this sort of retaliation is childish at best and borderline illegal at worst. It does nothing but punish everyone else. Don't score him if he doesn't pay. Have the club board have a chat with the guy. Either he pays or he isn't scored. We have had people shadow races before but they aren't scored of course. Its not that big of a deal to just not score the guy.

 

[Ron20324]

... He's consuming the club's resources, like the RC boat, the racing mark placement, referee(s), etc. Playing, but not paying... .

It would be "Theft of Services" in legal talk. Aren't there any lawyers in the club?

 

[Jackdaw]

A couple of things.

First, someone mentioned the RRS. Does your club have rules regarding race entry? If he violates these (by not paying) he is not racing. If he is not 'racing', then he is not bound by the RRS, but COLREGs or IWR. This is a potential problem at marks and when overtaking, where RRS really differs from the others. Not to mention the 'stand on' vs 'ROW' deal. A collision with him caused by a RRS misunderstanding would probably fall to being judged under COLREGS. Dangerous stuff.

Second, a quiet chat from a Flag Officer is in order. That continued behavior violates the spirit of the sport, and potentially breaks RRS#2 (Fair Sailing) and more importantly RRS#69 (Gross Misconduct). Most clubs have a bylaw allowing the removal of members for repeated Rule69 violations.

Third, on our lake we have to have an event permit for each race we run, issued by the County Water Patrol. It is in their interest to have safe events on the water. Mentioning that the club might be forced to report the repeated and dangerous incursion into the course might make him think again if all else fails.

Forth, running out his main halyard on race day might give a clear sign of someones displeasure.

 

[Ben4195]

Thanks all, first off, a Flag Officer did indeed speak with the skipper before the race yesterday, and that boat did NOT participate, and instead simply sailed the north part of the reservoir. Whether this chat by the Flag Office results in fees paid, or if in the absence of payment the skipper continues to stay off the race course, remains to be seen. I'm skeptical, I suppose, because it's quite a jerky move in the first place, and anyone who can be okay with that probably would have no qualms about continuing this behavior. I'm not ever sure he's a club member. The race is open to everyone (who pays).

We'll see if this skipper shows up on the start line next week. Hopefully he'll have paid by then.

 

[Jackdaw]

Thanks all, first off, a Flag Officer did indeed speak with the skipper before the race yesterday, and that boat did NOT participate, and instead simply sailed the north part of the reservoir. Whether this chat by the Flag Office results in fees paid, or if in the absence of payment the skipper continues to stay off the race course, remains to be seen. I'm skeptical, I suppose, because it's quite a jerky move in the first place, and anyone who can be okay with that probably would have no qualms about continuing this behavior. I'm not ever sure he's a club member. The race is open to everyone (who pays).

We'll see if this skipper shows up on the start line next week. Hopefully he'll have paid by then.

Thats a good start. Two continued thoughts.

1) Maybe not a member of your club. But maybe a member somewhere else. Passing on details of his actions might get a more meaningful conversation there. But it's hard to say. This type of behavior would be stemmed at any club worth the title 'yacht club'. It's clear he does not know better.

2) The threat of Water Patrol involvement will ice most people. The casual mention that they might be hanging around the windward mark, and might stop a non-racer for a safety inspection might cool him off.

 

[jviss]

It's clear he does not know better.

That's being too generous. The world is full of wise guys.

 

[Jackdaw]

That's being too generous. The world is full of wise guys.

For sure could be. There also could be more than meets the eye. If he truly wanted to race, who would/could not pay $35 for nine race series? Thats peanuts. Sounds like an old chip on his shoulder due to some past injustice, real or imagined.

 

[Ben4195]

Good idea, JD. I think I know this guy's club on Lake Erie, and I have a contact there. if this continues I'll see if anyone is interested in pursuing it.

I'm inclined to agree with you Jviss, the world is full of wise guys, as you say. I'm sure this guy knows very well, and feels comfortable taking advantage. Public shaming, as someone suggested, might work, but how would that be done? We don't have a skipper's meeting before the race, and he probably wouldn't attend if we did. Perhaps announcing unpaid racers on the VHF right before the starting horn? That's a thought.

In any case, I appreciate the thought you guys have put into this, and it gives me somewhere to go if the skipper doesn't change his behavior. While the principle of the matter DOES bother me, I'm not a Flag Officer and am not seeking the drama, simply curious if others have experienced this and/or any ideas on a remedy. I'll refer these ideas to those "in charge" and let them decide to pursue the matter or not.

 

[JRacer]

Log chain, padlock, bow pulpit, dock.

 

[Jackdaw]

Good idea, JD. I think I know this guy's club on Lake Erie, and I have a contact there. if this continues I'll see if anyone is interested in pursuing it.

This will almost always pay off. A member being an a$$hole while home at our club? A nuisance to be dealt with. Being an a$$hole at another club? That cannot stand. Our reputation is precious to us.

 

[shemandr]

I'll go with the guy got mad about some adverse situation (Protest, rating, time limit). It's better when they get mad and go away. When they get mad and hang around there's not so much to do. I like the idea of having marine constable shadow him but they subject themselves to charges of harassment. Shame? Some people love to be a fly in the ointment! If you sue in small claims expect a counter suit. Don't fool with his boat - almost everywhere is under video surveillance. You might be able to deny entry (Re-write the NOR) to all members of his club. It depends on how many actually participate.

 

[Jackdaw]

I'll go with the guy got mad about some adverse situation (Protest, rating, time limit). It's better when they get mad and go away. When they get mad and hang around there's not so much to do. I like the idea of having marine constable shadow him but they subject themselves to charges of harassment. Shame? Some people love to be a fly in the ointment! If you sue in small claims expect a counter suit. Don't fool with his boat - almost everywhere is under video surveillance. You might be able to deny entry (Re-write the NOR) to all members of his club. It depends on how many actually participate.

Tell the water LEO about the behavior and let them do their jobs. If in their opinion the boat's location and behavior creates a water hazard they are within their rights (and obligated) to stop it. It's kinda their job.

Not a fan of punishing innocents for the behavior of others. Getting people racing is hard enough. Re-wring the NOR to ban a club from racing would match childish behavior with more of the same.

 

[jviss]

Not a fan of punishing innocents for the behavior of others. Getting people racing is hard enough. Re-wring the NOR to ban a club from racing would match childish behavior with more of the same.

You're the guy who suggested running out his main halyard on race day! Ha, ha!

I agree with Andrew, the threat of excluding his club would produce peer pressure to get him to pay up or stay away.

 

[Jackdaw]

You're the guy who suggested running out his main halyard on race day! Ha, ha!

;^) Indeed.

No innocents will be harmed by this gesture. ;^)

 

[jviss]

I was referring to the childish part.

 

[Jackdaw]

I was referring to the childish part.

I would not go straight to childish. It's one of sailing's time-honored way of policing one's own. No permanent damage or cost, but time spent re-running. Of course I would exhaust all possible civil remedies first.