Racer not giving way
- Thread starter odaydokay
- Start date
- Status
How about you use common sense when you see buoys and figure there is a race going on you just be cool and mosey over there and then go back on your course once you are clear of the race course. Why is that so hard
Remember ocean racing might not look the same as a lake race. We most often don't have anything obvious indicating a race is going on... with the possible exception of multiple boats seemingly going the same direction and possibly a finish boat. Even when we are racing that finish boat is not always easy to spot. Races routinely are done around existing buoys or marks that are year round.
In my earlier post the 'race' that was going on was a tiny one of possibly 3 boats doing a Jack and Jill and very spread out evidently, as they were quite alone when we saw them.
I think most of us would certainly avoid a race if we knew one was anywhere near us.
Remember ocean racing might not look the same as a lake race. We most often don't have anything obvious indicating a race is going on... with the possible exception of multiple boats seemingly going the same direction and possibly a finish boat. Even when we are racing that finish boat is not always easy to spot. Races routinely are done around existing buoys or marks that are year round.
In my earlier post the 'race' that was going on was a tiny one of possibly 3 boats doing a Jack and Jill and very spread out evidently, as they were quite alone when we saw them.
I think most of us would certainly avoid a race if we knew one was anywhere near us.
Yes, he would have T-boned me. He did not see me? Maybe and that would explain a bit. As I said, I would have hailed him 20-20 hindsight and probably fallen off myself though then I would have to have dealt with the guy to his stern also. In a way I sort of hope he did not see me as he should not have assumed I knew he was in a race either and he should have not have played chicken anymore than I should have. Again, I was the one that moved to avoid first. Happily no accident and no courtroom wrongful death case. Wonder what the judge would have asked? Who had the right of way? ("I did your honor because I was racing" - ha ha) Who gave way first? I did. I feel pretty comfortable I would not have been convicted, but better is to see and avoid and I would do a better job of that in the future.
Since I don't have any way to communicate with the racers except jumping up and down or waving my arms until I'm so close that my options are reduced, I follow the regs for stand on and give way etc. If the racers don't like it they should learn to stop holding their races where they are blocking the channel entrance instead of expecting me to sail the 7 miles to go around them to the next channel!
On Long Island Sound there are distance races that are so long you really aren't sure if a boat is racing or not. They are spread far and wide on a course that can be over a hundred miles long and speaking of douche, I can guarantee that none of the racers in small courses are scanning 16 and 13 so as to make VHF communication even possible. I know of no Haverstraw Bay racers that leave channel 72 and we sail around government marks sometimes with barges running up and down river making no comms completely stupid. And yet we do it. Just saying usually no one is an angel in these situations. I always try to give way if I even think a boat might be racing, unfortunately it's not always readily apparent.
Every vessel with an on board VHF is required under federal law to be monitoring VHF 16.. If racers and cruisers followed the law then communication would be much more simple.. I've never been on a race boat, other than a dinghy, that did not have a VHF.
How did you NOT know they were racing?!!? There are a few courses set up and most are one design races where you can pretty much devise that they are racing since they all look alike. Downwind they are all running spinnakers and upwind they are hiking out on the rails especially the J105 fleet. The vipers and other little boats are like swarms of mosquitoes, so there's that.
No boat I've raced on in LIS (including the race the OP was referring to), ever monitored channel 16 during a race...only the race committee channel was on. If you even set it to dual scan, it would be so distracting, you couldn't hear your crew talking.
COLREGS also requires the giant tugs pushing barges in the sound to yield to sailboats, but that just doesn't happen either.
Kinda my point, when racing it seems common place to break the federal rules and replace them with the racing rules. As i said I do it too. There should be two seperate radios if need be to cover both worlds but I have rarely seen that happen. Like I said no ones an angel in these situations and most people do the best they can to not interfere. The most important rule I believe is to keep a proper watch so as to anticipate other boats and their movements before there's an issue and not waiting until your both 2 boats away.
Ok, that's clearer then. Like I said, maybe he didn't see you. My other guess is that he was going to duck you at the last moment, but that when you headed up to avoid him he interpreted that as a plan to tack. In that case he'd choose to go over the top of you to not be in your shadow. What looked to you like a near miss between him and the boat to his windward was probably a regular racing interaction between windward and leeward.
I think you've made some great points in terms of what you've learned in hindsight. For example, Hailing can be very helpful in these types of situations.
Look, I don't mean to call out the OP here, but I've been in that situation many times in the sound, including the actual race the OP was talking about where you get kinda pissed off that these guys are hogging up the whole sound and making you go, sometimes miles, out of your way to get to where you need to go.
I'm guessing OP was also pissed and wanted to make a point to show these guys that they didn't own the sound. When it turned into a game of chicken, OP flinched and is now making a stink about it.
/rant
I'm guessing OP was also pissed and wanted to make a point to show these guys that they didn't own the sound. When it turned into a game of chicken, OP flinched and is now making a stink about it.
/rant
Not exactly. Or maybe
See page 5, headline 2.
http://www.uscg.mil/D1/prevention/NavInfo/navinfo/documents/C-Communications.PDF
I've seen this in many CG docs, that you have to monitor 16 "when the radio is in operation" (turned on).
However, I believe that the rules are actually administered by the FCC, which makes no mention of operational status.
---maybe start a different thread.
I agree, mostly but sometimes the courses can be quite large. Often the windward mark is at least a mile from the starting line and the leeward mark can be a mile the other way. That's a big detour if you're headed to you favorite anchor for lunch with guests.
My original post discussed an event and asked two reasonable questions, answers to which would guide me for the future. Not to quibble, but I don't seen anything in it that represents "making a stink". From the number and diversity of responses it seems like it also fostered a healthy discussion that might help us all......
I've read this here a number of times from different folks.
WTF?
MILES out of your way?
Nonsense.
All you need to do is duck the racers, which takes maybe a 5 degree course change. You do NOT have to stay off the entire race course. You just have to avoid the boats that are ON the race course.
Where some people get these crazy ideas is beyond me.
I've sailed on SF Bay for over 35 years. There are usually tons of races every single Saturday & Sunday, ALL YEAR ROUND. You simply cannot avoid the races, because they are all over the Bay. You don't even have to know the courses or the marks. Just be polite and duck them, do NOT head up, like Jackdaw said, it's confusing. And you can only duck one boat at a time, deal with the second one after you pass the first one.
Close to some people means a mile. That's simply nuts.
It matters very much to the racer, and is a matter of almost no consequence to the casual sailor. Why wouldn't you yield? It is the non-dickish thing to do. Racers for their part do have to remember that by and large nobody else cares and col-regs still apply.
Not exactly. Or maybe
See page 5, headline 2.
http://www.uscg.mil/D1/prevention/NavInfo/navinfo/documents/C-Communications.PDF
I've seen this in many CG docs, that you have to monitor 16 "when the radio is in operation" (turned on).
However, I believe that the rules are actually administered by the FCC, which makes no mention of operational status.
---maybe start a different thread.
"Radio Watchkeeping Regulations
In general, any vessel equipped with a VHF marine radiotelephone (whether voluntarily or required to) must maintain a watch on channel 16 (156.800 MHz) whenever the radiotelephone is not being used to communicate.
Source: FCC 47 CFR §§ 80.148, 80.310, NTIA Manual 8.2.29.6.c(2)(e), ITU RR 31.17, 33.18, AP13 §25.2"
It's kind of hard to monitor VHF 16 while TXing but at all times otherwise it is required by federal law..
I'm glad they didn't have to hear what competitive racers say to each other!They had no reason to scream... or make rude gestures...my guests were quite offended that their children had to hear such language.
- Status