Please help!! I am in need of knowledge related to restoration of my Clipper Marine 21 keel trunk and lifting system hardware. On my profile I have pictures of the take-down of the the crap that I am replacing. What I need is actual pictures or sketches, even a blue print of Her original hardware. I am currently thinking about installing the turning block/ball for the Catalina 22, it is readily available and affordable from Catalina Direct. However, I still will need some sort of (brass) cable tube/guide for the angle over to my winch. Please advise, any help at all will be appreciated. My keel itself is in remarkable condition, with the cable just looped through its eye-hole and locked back upon itself.
R & R Clipper Marine 21 keel lifting system hardware
- Thread starter DreamCatcherCapt
- Start date
You're over-complicating. There's just a bolt with a simple sheave in it. As I recall I got something from the McMaster catalog. I remember a half inch stainless bolt, but I may have increased that over what the factory did. The bolt goes through the glass of the trunk. The winch cable then turns back to the brake-winch. The vinyl cover kept the splashing down to a minimum. Don't worry--be happy! The Clipper 21 was a surprisingly good sailing boat and could handle lots of wind when the traveler was employed, Seemed quite fast.
What's to keep the keel from slamming against the inside of the keel trunk again and bending the pivot and sheave bolt?
In ALL my research I have noticed one common theme, swing keel failures leading to lost keels and even sunken
boats. I can't understand why my lifting hardware can seem so rinky-dinky and you say don't worry. The first time I sailed her in some serious wind (Columbia Gorge) Her bolts bent, started leaking and tried to tear apart Her keel trunk. I am not trying to be a smart ass here, I just want to fix this problem right. I have several times pictures on my profile. Thanks
Something's off here. Sailed my clipper 21 in fairly heavy stuff, never gave a thought to the pivot bolt. It only leaked a little bit. Far as I know it was original. Might be yours is not. I got a tiny bit of noise on a run or occasional reach, but not near what you're talking about. All I had to address was the lifting mechanism, whih as I said, was simple. I believe there was provision for a through bolt to keep the boadr down. On Barnegat Bay that would be useless because we spend most of the day grounding. I just let the keel do what it wanted.
Just remembered; tried a plastic sheave, useless, bent quickly. ended up with a 2 inch or so die cast zinc standard v belt pulley with a half inch bolt through it. Worked fine as long as I had the boat. Just watch the alignment of the wire to the winch. you may need to adjust somethings position.
Just remembered; tried a plastic sheave, useless, bent quickly. ended up with a 2 inch or so die cast zinc standard v belt pulley with a half inch bolt through it. Worked fine as long as I had the boat. Just watch the alignment of the wire to the winch. you may need to adjust somethings position.
On the Trailer Sailor's forum http://forum.trailersailor.com/forum.php?id=1 Charles Brennan has a cast iron keel Windrose 18. This winter (he's in FL) he's been stumped by problems with his keel alignment and it sticking when cranked all the way up. He's tried all kinds of shackles and splices of the cable to keep the keel as centered as possible when bringing the keel up. The long and the short of it, when he finally decided to refurb and refinish the cast iron keel, when he cut back the glassed in pivot bolt from the last time he replaced it, he discovered that the keel bolt was not just bent, but broken. He also had used 18-8 SS, which can be almost any crappy rusty SS formula... This time, he replaced with a proper 316 SS bolt. You can search over there on his posts if you want to research how he figured this all out over the past 6-9 months or so, but I gave you the synopsis.
Yes, swing keel boats do have some limitations, mainly that they need to lift in some secure manner, and they need to pivot in some manner. But there are a crap-ton of swing keel boats (I'm not talking stub ballasted keel with non-ballasted centerboard like my O'day or a Precision, I'm talking real swing keels used for ballast,) like, for example 14,000 Catalina 22s sold. They all use a cable to winch them up, and as long as you keep on them for maintenance and keep an eye on your winch not rusting out, you cable wearing out, or your pivot bolt wearing out, they work just fine. Now, there are plenty of other swing keel boats that use a screw winch for the swing keel, for example the Beneteau First 21 and now First 22, and other European boats. And they work fine, too.
So, while I prefer my stub ballasted keel with centerboard, there's no reason to hate on a decently designed cable operated swing keel that's shown a serviceable history in the past. (Yes, after 30 years, I should check the Delrin pivot on my O'day centerboard. I know, but it seems fine!)
I think you are at a reasonable service life for your Clipper, and doing the pivot maintenance with good quality 1/2" or whatever 316 SS bolts, and making sure the cable is good with a decent sheave, you'll be due for another 10-15 years of reliable use.
Yes, swing keel boats do have some limitations, mainly that they need to lift in some secure manner, and they need to pivot in some manner. But there are a crap-ton of swing keel boats (I'm not talking stub ballasted keel with non-ballasted centerboard like my O'day or a Precision, I'm talking real swing keels used for ballast,) like, for example 14,000 Catalina 22s sold. They all use a cable to winch them up, and as long as you keep on them for maintenance and keep an eye on your winch not rusting out, you cable wearing out, or your pivot bolt wearing out, they work just fine. Now, there are plenty of other swing keel boats that use a screw winch for the swing keel, for example the Beneteau First 21 and now First 22, and other European boats. And they work fine, too.
So, while I prefer my stub ballasted keel with centerboard, there's no reason to hate on a decently designed cable operated swing keel that's shown a serviceable history in the past. (Yes, after 30 years, I should check the Delrin pivot on my O'day centerboard. I know, but it seems fine!)
I think you are at a reasonable service life for your Clipper, and doing the pivot maintenance with good quality 1/2" or whatever 316 SS bolts, and making sure the cable is good with a decent sheave, you'll be due for another 10-15 years of reliable use.
For stainless steel bolts, West Marine or Fastenal if either one is near you.
If anyone is having issues with the weighted keel banging back and forth, I would tend to think the bolt hole thru the cast iron keel has wallered out.. Either a bigger bolt if can be done or a sleeve inserted into the keel would help. Also, this issue cropped up with the Catalina 22 and 25 after years in service and Catalina came up with a shim kit that could be affixed to the keel on both sides as it slid up into the trunk i.e. the head of the keel, the shims would help keep the keel from swaying back and forth. I do not know if that would help with your boat but just a thought.
If anyone is having issues with the weighted keel banging back and forth, I would tend to think the bolt hole thru the cast iron keel has wallered out.. Either a bigger bolt if can be done or a sleeve inserted into the keel would help. Also, this issue cropped up with the Catalina 22 and 25 after years in service and Catalina came up with a shim kit that could be affixed to the keel on both sides as it slid up into the trunk i.e. the head of the keel, the shims would help keep the keel from swaying back and forth. I do not know if that would help with your boat but just a thought.
I knew something was off!! I figured out what you meant about the pictures and looked at them. I can't tell exactly what's going on there but something is off for sure. My Clipper 21 neither had, nor needed that bent up rubbing plate. I don't think that is original. And the sheave is off also. If that is in fact the correct original winch it looks like it needs to be re positioned. The run from the turning sheave to the winch drum was a lot more fair than yours seems to be. I'm pushind my memory here because I sold the clipper at least 16 years ago. How about more, sharper pictures? Might jog my ancient memory. See?? don't worry, be happy! We,ll get it straightened out. I'm going to suggest the clipper forum at trailer sailor.com. It used yo have loads of good info. I just checked. It's still there but I don't see the old info. might be hiding somewhere.
I am just going to put it back together with the 'new' crap [yes I am using SS 316] replacing the old crap and sell it.
done
done
Thank you Sam and everyone else who tried to help. I ended up using a garage door sheave AND re-positioning the winch. Thinking about using a section of copper pipe for a cable guide along the run between winch & sheave. I'll glass it into the trunk and fabricate a wood step to fit over. Marked my cable with a wrap of electric tape, stays put just fine. Gonna also add a couple of drop-leafs to each side of the step, and I'll have a VERY handy as well as romovable table/bench/step to cover (and protect) the whole system.
Wish I could find a brass cable-tube (ideas anyone?) The sheave I am using has a built in bearing bushing and although not brass, much better than what was there before.
Going to check out the shim-kit from C-Direct for preventative maintenance. I also installed a sleave through my keel trunk (glassed in) and am using 5/8 SS 318 bolt for pivot. I am thinking about greasing the new bolt up real good and whole inserted, filling the (any) gaps with Goop (or Silicone, please advise) to prevent any leaking.