Questions re: Raritan Elegance heads

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Jan 20, 2011

It's as straightforward as it appears to be

z28jimi said:
I'm strongly considering replacing three GalleyMaid heads with Raritan Elegance models, and hope to find answers to a few concerns here.
1. I believe the discharge line from each of the heads will need to run uphill before it gets to the entry point of the holding tank. Is this any problem?

Nope. However, if it's a particularly long run, you MIGHT consider installing a loop in the head discharge line immediately after the toilet that's just a wee bit higher than the top of the tank...so that once the flush clears the top of the loop, gravity will take over.

z28jimi said:
2. The Raritan literature mentions specific flow rates for the fresh water flush supply. How critical is this? Do I need to pull a line loose and time the flow into a bucket, or can I assume that the 110 volt fresh water pump can push the required amount of water through the existing 3/8" ID plumbing to flush the heads?

I'd assume that your 110v fresh water pump can push at least as much water as a 2.8 gpm 12v water pump (typical size on most boats)...so I'd say the answer is yes. And you definitely want the optional "smart flush" panel that offers 4 flush options.

z28jimi said:
3.The GalleyMaids use 1" exhaust hose for the discharge, and there is no detectable permeation. Is there any reason to change these?

After about 10 years, hoses become hard and brittle enough to warrant replacement whether they stink or not...'cuz when hoses become hard and brittle, they're prone to develop cracks around fittings and thru-hulls. If yours aren't anywhere that old, no reason to replace...but if they are, I'd replace 'em as preventive maintenance...'cuz you shouldn't have mess with any more plumbing for a quite a while and they aren't gonna get better with age.

z28jimi said:
Are there any special considerations I should know about, or is this sort of swap as straightforward as it looks to be?

It doesn't get any more straightforward...and you will LOVE the Elegance!

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Jan 20, 2011

And as long as you're upgrading the toilets...

Have you considered adding a Type I MSD (treatment device)? Or do you already have the Galley Maid nightmare?

If not, check out the Raritan PuraSan: Raritan Purasan

Head Master18695 · Jan 21, 2011

Re: And as long as you're upgrading the toilets...

Spotted this posting and thought I'd throw my $0.02 in. In my 39+ years with Raritan, the Marine "Elegance" has made a better impression on me, as a new product (it's been out a little over 2 yrs. now), than anything else I've seen here, before or since. Before the product went into production it went through 2 years of in-house testing as well as in the field, on "tester boats." The one that we had in the men's room for the plant employees got a real workout (yeah I know, it should've been in the ladies room and would have gotten even more of a workout...!). The problem with that thinking is that if or when something were to go wrong with it, the women in the plant would be embarrassed and wouldn't tell anyone. They would just stop using it.

Men on the other hand, have no such compunction, "Hey you, your fancy new crapper is all stopped up! Get in there and fix it!"

What truly impressed me about the Marine "Elegance," is that we never heard anyone yelling that across the floor of our plant...

A personal experience I had with it: I ran out of toilet paper and was in the process of putting out a new roll, when I accidently dropped the cardboard core from the toilet paper roll, right smack in the toilet! Not wanting to reach in and pull it out with my bare hands (yecch!), I decided to see just how good (or bad) this new toilet actually was. It took me 4 or 5 flushes, but I was able to have the toilet grind it up and flush it down. And it didn't clog, back up, run over onto the floor or anything else. That was good enough for me, and I've touted the Marine "Elegance" to the exclusion of any other toilet, ever since!

It has a Raritan-designed, very powerful, high-revving pancake-style motor driving the discharge pump, that pulls the contents out of the bowl so quickly, it resembles a vacuum cleaner - thus the description "Vortex-Vac." While it isn't a true vacuum toilet in the sense that the VacuFlush is, it works just as well, uses about the same amount of water, and doesn't require all the complicated plumbing associated with the VacuFlush. Plus, it doesn't have that vacuum "pop" when it flushes, and if you have the version that flushes with onboard pressurized water, is actually quieter. And finally, it only costs about half what the VacuFlush costs.

I confess that Raritan still supplies me with a paycheck every week, which makes me biased toward Raritan's products, but in my not-so-humble opinion, it is simply the best marine toilet available - at any price.

It can pump from one end to the other of a 40 foot boat without problem, and can pump up to a higher deck level, if necessary - unfortunately it must be one or the other, it can't do both at the same time.

Denpaq · Jan 22, 2011

Re: And as long as you're upgrading the toilets...

I have to ditto Head Master's opinion of the Elegance model toilet. I installed one in my 33 foot trawler in June 2009 along with the smart panel. I am a woman who lives aboard which means I use it the way the women in Head Master's work place didn't get a chance to. This toilet is fabulous, dependable, quiet, and comfortable. The smart panel allows for flexibility in discharging options, and whenever I have visitors over they are always impressed with how simple it is to run. Although I haven't yet installed the Type I MSD that Peggie Hall recommends, it is on my list of things to do next. If you have the room on your boat for one, I would highly recommend this toilet.

Denise
Portland, OR

Head Master18695 · Jan 24, 2011

Re: And as long as you're upgrading the toilets...

Denise, how did you find out about the Marine "Elegance?" Recommendation from someone else? Advertisements? Shot in the dark? (Inquiring minds would like to know...)

Denpaq · Jan 25, 2011

Head Master,
I found out right here, in fact. I was researching holding tank odor control and based on the advice Peggy had written both in this forum and in her book I decided to replace the toilet in my boat. Peggy recommended the Elegance to me and I ran with it. I followed her advice to the letter and have never been disappointed for a second. Did I mention how much I love that smart panel??

CarlN · Jan 26, 2011

Another happy Elegance owner. By far the best head I've ever owned (and this includes the much praised Lavac). My installation has an 8 foot horizontal and two foot up-hill hose run to the holding tank. No pumping problem at all. In 18 months there has not even been a "near" clog. Also it must use less water as I have fewer pump-outs. Even the #2 flush (that does a triple cycle) seems to use less water than my old pump manual head.

The unexpected bonus was the Raritan "Sea Fresh" option that we also installed. It's a little toggle switch that lets you switch between salt water and pressurized fresh water for flushing depending on the state of your fresh water supply.

Carl

Head Master18695 · Jan 31, 2011

By using the "triple cycle," Raritan has managed to improve the flushing efficiency dramatically, while reducing the amount of water required. For those of you who are not familiar with this, the Marine "Elegance" toilet with top-of-the line Smart Switch control, when operating on the "Normal Flush" setting does not flush continually when it is activated.

Here's what it does: Water comes in to rinse the bowl for about 2 seconds, then stops. Then the discharge pump comes on for about 3 seconds, then stops. It stays stopped for another second or two, then it repeats for two more times - water comes in, then stops; discharge pump comes on for 3 seconds, then stops. After the discharge pump has run the third time, it stops and water comes into the bowl for 2 seconds, to leave water in the bowl between flushes.

The advantage to this method is twofold: what it doesn't draw down on the first flush cycle, it will draw down on the second, or the third cycle. And secondly, it does it all with a lot less water. A Normal Flush passes about 1 1/2 quarts of water per flush.

The Smart Switch control also offers a "Water Saver" function where it only runs one cycle as described above. This only uses about a pint of water, and I've been told by those in the field, is completely sufficient for about 95% of the flushes. Only rarely is the Normal Flush even required.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Mar 5, 2011

z28jimi said:
I pulled the trigger and have a nice shiny Elegance in the box in the garage. Now though, I'm concerned that my mounting location may be lower than the inlet to the holding tank. The existing Galley Maid plumbing goes out the back of the head compartment and down into the engine room where the pump is located, then forward to the tank. I don't think I can go "up" from the Elegance any appreciable distance with a loop. Am I heading for trouble? (no pun intended)

Except on boats that have very deep bilges, the tank inlet is at least a little higher than the toilet discharge...so unless the tank inlet is a couple of feet or more higher than the toilet base, it's not a big deal. If you included one of the flush options that includes dry bowl, all the better.

However, from your description it sounds like your tank is WAAAAY too far from the toilet. The optimal max distance is 6'...'cuz that's as far as bowl contents will move from most toilets in the maximum amount time anyone is likely to spending flushing it. The further apart they are, the more likely it is that waste will be left sitting in the discharge hose.

All that said, today's high end all-china "thrones" have much more powerful pumps that can push bowl contents a lot farther than manual toilets or basic macerating electric toilets, so if you're conscientious about rinsing out the system before the boat will sit, there shouldn't be a problem.

pstoneberg · Mar 5, 2011

Differences in Elegance Controls

Does anyone know if the Raritan Elegance Momentary Control switch can do the three step flush cycle, or do you need to buy the $160 Smart Flush Control?
Thanks!

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Mar 5, 2011

You'll need the Smart Panel to do that.

Page 3 of the owners manual http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/Marine Elegance/L460v0210.pdf

B. ME control
1. Press and hold “Water Only” to add water to the bowl
2. Press and hold “Empty” to evacuate the bowl
3. Press and hold “Flush” to bring water in while bowl is evacuating

Note they all begin with "press and hold" the appropriate button...that function only lasts as long as you hold down the button.

pstoneberg · Mar 5, 2011

Thanks for the info, Peggie.

Head Master18695 · Mar 7, 2011

There are (3) switch options: 1) Simple pushbutton switch. Push and hold it, if flushes. Let go, it stops. 2) ME switch panel. This has a panel with (3) buttons on it. You can add water only, pump out only, or do both at the same time. These buttons must be pressed and held for it to do anything. 3) Smart Switch control. This has a switch panel with (4) buttons on it: a normal flush button that is connected to a built-in timer. Press it and let go. It will flush for however long it is programmed to flush (3 short cycles), then shut off. It has a Water Saver flush button which only operates one of the timed cycles, rather than 3, then shuts off. It also has an Add water only button, that must be pressed and held to bring water in. And it has an empty bowl button, which must be pressed and held, and it will empty the bowl without bringing in any water.

The 3 button panel is called the ME panel, and is not the Smart Switch option. The Smart Switch control has 4 buttons on it. Note: The Smart Switch is the only switch option that provides the 3 short flush cycles, because it is the only one that has a built-in timer.