Questions Concerning Baby Stay & Running Backstays

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Oct 9, 2013
72
Beneteau First 38 Belmont Harbor
Hi all,

We have a 1984 Beneteau First 38 (Tall Mast & Deep Keel). She has a baby stay forward (with block & tackle) and a pair of running stays aft (not connected – still tied/taped to shrouds as when we bought her). The baby stay was not adjusted all summer. The running stays were never used this summer. We are putting her into storage for the winter on Wednesday and will be unstepping the keel-stepped mast at that time.

Questions we need to answer over the winter:

(1) How do we move/adjust the baby stay when using a spinnaker? We did not use the spinnaker this summer. 3 spinnaker sails (varying sizes and fabric weight) and a huge Barbarossa spinnaker pole came with the boat.

(2) Do we need the aft running stays? If we keep them, where should they be connected to? The stays are not long enough to connect to the deck. We would need to install block & tackle for the last 4 or 5 feet. At the aft port and starboard corners of the top deck there are a pair of fairly heavy duty deck mounted chainplates. I am guessing that the running backstays are to be connected to these points. I have not yet confirmed what type/size of backing plate is installed below deck for these chainplates.

Doug in Lakeview
1984 Beneteau First 38 – Hull #178
Belmont Harbor – Chicago
 
Nov 24, 2012
586
Coincidently I had a 84 First 345 which I purchased in Chicago new. It had the same arrangement of baby stay and running back stays, the baby stay had a 3:1 block arrangement and was used to bend the mast by pulling it forward. The backstay further accentuated the bend through a backstay adjuster. To use the spinnaker pole with the baby stay we would loosen the tackle and bungee it to the mast since mast bend is used for pointing. The running back stays are connected to pad eyes approximately 3/4 of the way back. They are used to keep the mast from pumping in heavy weather. Typically we would use in heavier weather with the weather side taunt and the lee side loose.

Note there probably is a turnbuckle below deck between the mast and the deck. Be careful not to over tighten or you'll overcompress.
 
Oct 9, 2013
72
Beneteau First 38 Belmont Harbor
Captn TJ,

Thanks for the comments. Attached are 3 pics from last autumn when she was on the hard on the Calumet River. At that point she had been outside in the weather for 1 1/2 years with no TLC.

In the 1st pic you can see the block & tackle on the baby stay just as you stated. Moving the baby stay to the mast (and using a bungee to hold it in place) when using a spinnaker will be easy to do.

In the 2nd pic you can see the aft port pad eye for attaching the running stay (with the line holding the boom). Would we use a block & tackle there also? Seems we would not use the running back stays much and that it would make the cockpit overhead busier/more crowded. Perhaps we could take down the running back stays for now and put them back up when we get more experience and need them.

In the 3rd pic is the pic of the turnbuckle between the deck and the lower portion of the mast – again exactly as you stated.

Doug in Lakeview
1984 Beneteau First 38 – Hull #178
Belmont Harbor – Chicago
 

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Nov 24, 2012
586
Doug

My running back stays had a 4-1 tackle and I will admit were a pain especially when we were racing. You had to loosen one side and tighten the other when tacking. Invariably they got in the way of the main. The tackle had a block on the bottom with a cam that connected to a snap shackle so we were able to undo and move them forward easily and then snapped them to the rail

I'm not sure what they add from a structural (mast) perspective so I can't comment on removing the running backstays. We sold our boat about 15 years ago so don't have pictures handy to provide more input. Although your boat looks like a larger version of mine. Ours was lightening fast!

Pm me if you need more ques answered. FYI we sailed out of burnham harbor before we moved to ohio.
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,771
- -- -Bayfield
That's when you want to use the runners - while you are racing - especially in heavy air. If you get it down right, you can tack the main and loosen the leeward (to be) runner while getting in tight the new windward side. The baby stay also helps keep the mast from pumping in a heavy seaway. Not so necessary in light to moderate winds. The runners are very important to achieve good windward performance.
 
May 25, 2006
25
Beneteau 42 Tampa Bay Area
Hi all,

We have a 1984 Beneteau First 38 (Tall Mast & Deep Keel). She has a baby stay forward (with block & tackle) and a pair of running stays aft (not connected – still tied/taped to shrouds as when we bought her). The baby stay was not adjusted all summer. The running stays were never used this summer. We are putting her into storage for the winter on Wednesday and will be unstepping the keel-stepped mast at that time.

Questions we need to answer over the winter:

(1) How do we move/adjust the baby stay when using a spinnaker? We did not use the spinnaker this summer. 3 spinnaker sails (varying sizes and fabric weight) and a huge Barbarossa spinnaker pole came with the boat.

(2) Do we need the aft running stays? If we keep them, where should they be connected to? The stays are not long enough to connect to the deck. We would need to install block & tackle for the last 4 or 5 feet. At the aft port and starboard corners of the top deck there are a pair of fairly heavy duty deck mounted chainplates. I am guessing that the running backstays are to be connected to these points. I have not yet confirmed what type/size of backing plate is installed below deck for these chainplates.

Doug in Lakeview
1984 Beneteau First 38 – Hull #178
Belmont Harbor – Chicago
Doug--

Because the shrouds on the yacht are in line, there is no fore or aft lowers to stabilize the mast at mid-level. Accordingly, one needs the baby stay and arguably the runners in any wind and the baby-stay particularly when using a spinnaker. The baby-stay is a pain in the neck when gybing the spinnaker unless one has two poles which few yachts do. That may be why the PO of your yacht fitted the baby-stay with an adjustable, releasable, base--so it could be eased and cast off and passed over the top of the pole and reattached as the pole is dipped under the head-stay and then taken up as the new sheet is tightened. Otherwise one has to free the pole at the mast and pass it forward and around the baby stay and then re-insert it into the mast car. That's doable, but it takes a dedicated foredeck crew and a specific mast-man that is strong and agile and knows what he's about. We've raced that way but, franky, two poles is a much better and safer option.

On the runners, while the main will support the mid-section of the mast somewhat while hard on the wind, in heavy seas the mast will pump as it may also on a reach in moderate to big seas. With that, one definately needs the runners. They are normally attached to a 4-part tackle fitted with a snap shackle that connects at the pad-eyes somewhat aft of the secondary winches on either side of the helm position. The standard tackles are fitted with cam-cleats oriented so that the working end of the line can be run to the secondary winches and cranked down snugly. When tacking one merely pop's the line out of the cam cleat to let the line run and lets the boom push the freed runner out of the way as it comes across the cockpit while one takes up on the windward runner. Accordingly, you should find two 4-part tackles somewhere in the gear (check the sail locker to starboard). If there are no tackles, the PO may have used a single length of Spectra with a snap-shackle to the runner and passed over a turning block at the pad eyes and back to the secondaries. Easier in some respects. For what it's worth, we discarded the wire rope runners in favor of 1/4" Spectra entirely which is lighter, does not chafe the boom when the two come in contact (and they will) and can be tied up out of the way to the cleats next to the spinnaker halyard winches on either side of the mast base just aft of the shrouds. The cost of the Spectra is only about $400 for our boat (42') and so should be somewhat less for you and will easily last 8-10 years considering your locale.

FWIW...
 
May 25, 2006
25
Beneteau 42 Tampa Bay Area
Regarding the turnbuckles attached to the mast below deck, because of the shape of the shroud base, as the mast loads up there are inward oriented transverse compression loads applied to the deck/coachroof. Because of the opening through the deck to accommodate the mast, even with well made partners, the deck around the mast base will tend to arch upward because of the compression load and the slight crown in the deck. This tendency is aggravated by the deck plate around the mast base that carries the vertical loads induced by the turning blocks for the halyards. The tie rods and turnbuckles below deck counter the uplift forces on the deck/deck plate. The rods should be quite tight but only so much that the deck plate remains tight against the surface of the deck without and visible vertical flex. FWIW...
 
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