Question On Battery Box Containment 2

Bob J. · Apr 27, 2012

I've never seen batteries in a boat without them being in a box. Maybe you could fab & glass a wood box in the compartment to contain a spill.

Don S/V ILLusion · Apr 27, 2012

Why not just reinstall the tie-downs? Alternatively, rather than invent some questionable alternative to boxes (which are not sealed and will leak if tipped over anyway), if you are very concerned, have you considered AGMs?

mitiempo · Apr 27, 2012

Boxes of some kind would be best.

I don't think I would trust batteries to 5200 though. If there is no other way epoxy wood to the liner and bolt the hold downs to that.

Ron20324 · Apr 27, 2012

My slip neighbor has the C30. The factory install is sufficent to contain battery spills. Don't worry about it. Just be sure to put a restainer over the batts.

Maine Sail · Apr 27, 2012

Bob S said:
I am searching this forum for advise on containing a potential spill. The C30 has a molded battery box under the starboard settee that fits 2 group 31's without battery boxes. I think it was designed for 2 group 24's with boxes. The area is molded fiberglass and seems to be water tight. I'm not sure how fiberglass will stand up to battery acid? Can I line the compartment with a heavy polypropylene bag or liner for added protection? There are tie downs threaded into the bottom that I removed. I just added epoxy and some FB cloth to reinforce the base. I was going to use 5200 to glue some aluminum clamps for hold downs. Appreciate any thoughts.

Battery acid does not affect gelcoat or fiberglass after it has cured. Some batteries such as AGM's actually use fiberglass inside the battery. I once had a power boat where the battery case cracked. The battery was in a fiberglass box and had been full of acid for months before the owner noticed it.. Simply washed it out and neutralized it and put it back, box was fine..
ABYC E-10

10.7.1

Battery mounting materials and surfaces shall withstand electrolyte attack.

10.7.3

Fasteners for the attachment of battery boxes or trays shall be isolated from areas intended to collect spilled electrolyte.

10.7.9

A vent system or other means shall be provided to permit the discharge from the boat of hydrogen gas released by the battery.
10.7.10

Battery boxes, whose cover forms a pocket over the battery, shall be vented at the uppermost portion of the cover.

NOTE to 10.7.9 and 10.7.10: These requirements also apply to installations of all batteries whether they employ removable vent caps, non-removable caps, are “sealed” or “maintenance free” batteries, or have pressure regulated valve vent systems with immobilized electrolyte (gel and AGM batteries).

Skipper · Apr 28, 2012

The battery boxes are to keep the batts from bangin' around. Mine is a factory-crafted aluminum box which is an exact fit for 2x side-by side G27's.

The 2nd advantage is that you can use the batt box as a base for tie-downs. The tie-downs will keep the batts from dislodging during a (gulp) capsize, and if installed properly will have the additional benefit of holding the battery caps on.

Skipper · Apr 28, 2012

The battery boxes are to keep the batts from bangin' around

And to keep any acid out of the bilge should a leak spring, as your question was regarding

Don S/V ILLusion · Apr 28, 2012

Skipper said:
And to keep any acid out of the bilge should a leak spring, as your question was regarding

do you know of any battery boxes that are sealed ???

Maine Sail · Apr 28, 2012

Skipper said:
The battery boxes are to keep the batts from bangin' around.

The box is there to contain acid. AGM batteries that are classified as "non-spillble" do not need a containment box but they DO require proper ventilation and proper hold downs.

Skipper said:
Mine is a factory-crafted aluminum box which is an exact fit for 2x side-by side G27's.

While it may be "factory crafted" it does not meet the qualifications for the containment of acid spils under ABYC E-10 which is what insurance companies want to see. Aluminum is eaten by sulfuric acid. Spill acid in an aluminum box and you'll eat a hole...

Skipper said:
The 2nd advantage is that you can use the batt box as a base for tie-downs. The tie-downs will keep the batts from dislodging during a (gulp) capsize, and if installed properly will have the additional benefit of holding the battery caps on.

Fasteners to hold the batteries in place should not be drilled through the acid containment system. Screws & bolts are vulnerable to acid erosion and will allow a spill to eventually eat through the fasteners causing both an acid leak and no battery fastening system.

If you have non-spillable AGM batteries such as Lifeline, Oddyssey etc. then aluminum is fine. If you have Gel or wet lead than it is not a sufficient acid containment system.... You can't 100% seal a battery box, they must be vented, so in a roll over some acid loss is going to happen with wet lead batteries..

Maine Sail · Apr 28, 2012

Bob S said:
Thanks everyone for the quick responses. Now that I glassed the bottom, the molded liner is liquid tight. I feel better about the install. Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember reading that the hold downs should be that the battery can;t move more than 1" with 2x the battery weight in pull.

10.7.4 Each installed battery shall not move more than one inch (25mm) in any direction when a pulling force of 90 pounds (41kg) or twice the battery weight, whichever is less, is applied through the center of gravity of the battery as follows:

10.7.4.1 vertically for a duration of one minute, and

10.7.4.2 horizontally and parallel to the boat's centerline, for a duration of one minute fore and one minute aft, and

10.7.4.3 horizontally and perpendicular to the boat's centerline for a duration of one minute to starboard and one minute to port.

mitiempo · Apr 28, 2012

Ideally though the batteries will be in boxes that do not allow any movement. Back and forth movement adds to chafe issues.

Skipper · Apr 29, 2012

Maine Sail said:
The box is there to contain acid...

That's what I said.

Maine Sail said:
While it may be "factory crafted" it does not meet the qualifications for the containment of acid spils under ABYC E-10 which is what insurance companies want to see. Aluminum is eaten by sulfuric acid. Spill acid in an aluminum box and you'll eat a hole......

I was referring to the not bangin' around part.

Maine Sail said:
Fasteners to hold the batteries in place should not be drilled through the acid containment system. Screws & bolts are vulnerable to acid erosion and will allow a spill to eventually eat through the fasteners causing both an acid leak and no battery fastening system..

When did I ever advise or perform a drilling of my "factory crafted" battery box, or anyone's battery box? BTW, "Factory crafted" only means that that is why I don't have a plastic one(s). Also, If I don't notice an acid spill for long ebough for it to eat holes through an 8th of aluminum, then I deserve a spill.

Ray Bowles · Apr 29, 2012

I don't want to hijack this thread but I have a simular question. When we owned our 1990 IP38 it had 2 battery banks with both under the settee's in the cabin. One bank was 3 group 4D's and the other was 2 8D's. All battereis were gel. That was 390 lbs and 340 lbs. While they were very solidly tied down they had no acid containment yet passed all the insurance survey. Because of clearence issues there was no room for a container. Is this a common practice for these size batteries or is there a cure?
Thanks, Ray

Maine Sail · Apr 29, 2012

Skipper said:
When did I ever advise or perform a drilling of my "factory crafted" battery box, or anyone's battery box? BTW, "Factory crafted" only means that that is why I don't have a plastic one(s).

You did not, but did say "as a base for". I was unsure what "as a base for" meant and I just wanted to make certain people reading this understood that placing battery hold downs or screws through a box intended for battery acid containment is not an advisable method for securing batteries or the boxes..

Skipper said:
Also, If I don't notice an acid spill for long enough for it to eat holes through an 8th of aluminum, then I deserve a spill.

Having seen what battery acid can do to metals, skin or other items affected by acid I don't feel anyone "deserves" an acid spill. It can be tough to notice a spill in a box unless you check frequently, sounds like you do and that is good practice..

I have a customer with a Sabre 34 who when he pulled his batteries last fall had quite a bit of acid in one box. A welded plastic seam between the battery top and case had split. He had a plastic box so was safe but he had visually checked the batteries a few times and never noticed it down in the bottom.

With your aluminum box an epoxy barrier coat rolled on with a good dry film thickness would make it acid resistant. Your box is surely perfectly strong, Bristol did great work, and well built but could be made safer with an acid barrier...You can also use spray on bedliner.. I built a custom wood battery box for a boat and dropped it at my local Rhino Liner. They fit it in when they were spraying a bed and charged me $20.00. Not a bad deal.

I see lots of dangerous installations, saw an 8D wet battery not in any box and secured with a wad of 1/4" bungee cord just a few weeks ago. It was sitting directly on top of an aluminum fuel tank containing gasoline...

Luckily for that owner there were no leaks and he is addressing the battery installation. I was called because the boat did not pass an insurance survey and that 8D was one of the big "noted" items ...

I just want folks to be as safe as possible that's all.

Maine Sail · Sep 5, 2012

Bob S said:
Is it possible for batteries to spill in rough conditions

Yes it is very possible. Battery orientation on sailboats is critically important and many builders screwed up the orientation of the boxes. Cells should be lined up port to starboard. If the cells run bow to stern then spilling of acid when heeling is a real potential. Battery cells should be installed port to starboard on sailboats.

Bob S said:
or is it more likely I overcharged them?

Usually not unless you over filled them.

Bob S said:
Can you overcharge with a Balmar MaxCharge with temp sensor?

Sure, if the voltage settings are high enough...

Bob S said:
Either way it's not much but I would like to know where it came from.

The most common reasons I see:

Overfilled
Wrong orientation in the vessel
Cracked Case
Caps not installed properly

tommays · Sep 5, 2012

They sit in fiberglass and now have custom 10G SS straps that allow zero moment for and aft or up and down

BOW O O O O O O STERN

STARBOARD
O
O
O
O
O
O
PORT

I am having a bit of trouble understanding how one of the above would spill more or less ?

As they seem wrong but nothing has ever leaked even after 6 hours on the same tack in 20 knots perhaps because there so close to the center of the boat ?

Maine Sail · Sep 5, 2012

tommays said:
BOW O O O O O O STERN

STARBOARD
O
O
O
O
O
O
PORT

I am having a bit of trouble understanding how one of the above would spill more or less ?

As they seem wrong but nothing has ever leaked even after 6 hours on the same tack in 20 knots perhaps because there so close to the center of the boat ?

There are two main issues with wet cell orientation.

1- Plates uncovering when sailing. Battery plates uncovering from the electrolyte while under charging or load is bad for the battery. This situation should be addressed so it can not happen.

2- Many batteries have offset fills which when the cells are oriented bow to stern allows acid to spill over on the tack that favors the spill. Even with centered caps there is a higher propensity for a spill when the cells run bow to stern rather than port to starboard. Losing electrolyte increases the exposed plate and the issues worsen.

Port to Starboard (plates are still covered and water not impinging on fill caps)

Bow to Stern (plates exposed and water can drain out of fill caps especially on "offset" fill batteries.

Offset fill batteries re-arranged and re-installed properly oriented port to starboard O'day 30:

Poor battery compartment design by a production builder. These batteries in the quarterberth are bow to stern. Owner has AGM so not a big issue here.

Another properly oriented battery, port to starboard, in a Sabre..

Another quarterberth box with properly oriented wet cells running port to starboard.