**Question** How do I start a CP-22 Fleet# at our local YC??

[rjbauer67]

I am the new owner of Capri 22 Hull #292.
We now have five CP-22s at the Lake Wissota Yacht Club (http://www.lwyc.net) in Chippewa Falls, WI.
I would like to establish a CP-22 Fleet. Can anyone help me out with this endeavor. Earlier this summer, I reached out via some links and phone numbers via web searches...but seems like the CP-22 One-Design leadership is not active regarding paperwork, etc. I think the closest CP-22 fleet to me is the Black Bear Racing Association on White Bear Lake, MN...about 90 miles due west of my location.
Thanks much! Regards, Russ in Wis

 

[delling3]

Re: **Question** How do I start a CP-22 Fleet# at our local

Not sure how much help this will be, but the CP22 "class association" seems to have lost course. The design is pretty mature now, and it seems that it is a low-budget boat, which doesn't travel well. My guess is this is why the class is not still active - what purpose does a National association serve if the boats aren't routinely getting together for regatta's?

If you have (5) boats near to you, my suggestion would be to start with getting a class start in a local PHRF fleet. You can use the most recent version of he OD class rules. In my area, that is an entry into one-design racing hat doesn't require a National organization to support it. Most clubs would welcome a fleet of 5 additional boats to join their races, and the incremental costs are pretty small, so you should be able to "demand" a one-design start.

If I am missing he boat, someone will come along to set me straight.

Chris

 

[Slartibartfass]

Re: **Question** How do I start a CP-22 Fleet# at our local

I'm only a recent member but I think the low production number vs the C-22 production run is part of the problem this association is slumbering. Spread too thin.... Trying to make this newsgroup a tad more lively..... But in the end it is all about people participating actively....

 

[shnool]

Re: **Question** How do I start a CP-22 Fleet# at our local

I think the low production number vs the C-22 production run is part of the problem this association is slumbering. Spread too thin....

Comparing the production run numbers of the C22 to the Cat22 is unfair... The C22 is probably (comparing to all other brands including J boats) a VERY successful production run, and one of the largest fleets of a production monohull keelboats, save for the J-24, and perhaps the J22... I think even the J80 hasn't got as many boats. All the aforementioned J boats have frequent National regattas, and regionals.

I honestly think part of the problem is the C22 isn't One Design. Which C22 do YOU have?
The tall rig?
The wing keel?
the Fin keel?
The shoal keel?
The race config?

The boat was meant to be a good sailing, day sailor... Catalina didn't intend it to be a OD racer. Which is why there are 3 different ratings for the boat in Portsmouth, and 4 in PHRF...

To be One Design generally requires, well, a single design! Which is what drives a national association regatta (not to be confused with a National Association)...

I beg you that think this site is disorganized, to dig through the 2nd biggest fleet from Catalina, the "Catalina 25, 250, and Capri 25 National Association." They are in a tuff about how they don't have any regional fleets, and they FIGHT over whether there should be a National regatta. Which they DO have, but only because Wayzata Yacht Club ALWAYS hosts it now, WHY? Because WYC has a fleet of 25 Capri 25s, which by the way were one of only 3 boats that Catalina created to be TRULY One Design (The 3 boats being, the Capri 25, Capri 30, Capri 37). WYC holds very professionally run OD fleets, and is PERFECTLY setup to run these regattas. VERY FEW CATALINA 25 owners come to this event. WHY? Because LIKE the Capri 22, the Catalina 25 comes in, deep fin, swing, tall rig, standard rig, shoal configs... Don't even start with the 250 (what is a very comfortable cruiser never meant to exceed 4 knots).

My suggestion is a cruiser meet-up for C22 owners... create fun races where scores aren't real important... then do 1 serious one... See which gets attended. The C22 isn't really a comfortable platform for 4 guys to travel and race on... Honestly most would move to a Melges 24, or J22, or now J70 instead if that was their thing.

What is not being readily shouted from the mountain, is sailing participation in general is down, WAY DOWN from say 20 years ago. The 90s was still down from the 80s, the HAYDAY for sailing. So get participation in sailing back, and you'll have a shot at a proper regionals.

 

[Slartibartfass]

Re: **Question** How do I start a CP-22 Fleet# at our local

Good point. My comment was not meant to be critical in any way. I am just a numbers guy and we are talking a 1 : 10 build ratio at least..... Simple statistics.....

 

[shnool]

Re: **Question** How do I start a CP-22 Fleet# at our local

I didn't take it that way...

The Cat 22 though was the most successful production monohull ever built, and made close to 11,000ish.
The Capri 25 went to hull number 1100ish
the Capri 22 is what 2500ish? So its WAY more popular than the Capri 25.
The Cat 25 is 5500ish?
The Cat 27 was like 1800 I think.

By contrast the J22, a REALLY popular J boat, got to hull number 1500?
the J24, I think maxed out at 4000?

Most every J boat except perhaps the 80 is under a couple hundred made, and they have active one design fleets, and regionals, and nationals. Look at the J105 for example. NOT an easy boat to trailer for a nationals, or regionals, yet they have them.

Its all about organizing the people to do it.. and getting them together with like minds.... Even if its NOT for a national regatta, if it's JUST for a BOOZE CRUISE, Catalina will recognize the association, and help you setup officers, and provide a way to get the Capri voices heard on the mainsheet. That is if there even IS a mainsheet mag before long.

I know the Cat 42 people (how many could there be?), offerred up articles frequently, and what is the ONLY boat still in production produced in numbers (the C22) had no voice at all.

I'm just saying it seems like the C22 people would rather just stick to their boats, in their corners of the world, and not share their knowledge, or work towards a larger association.

 

[delling3]

Re: **Question** How do I start a CP-22 Fleet# at our local

Well, your numbers for the C-27 are off. There were more than 6500 C-27 boats sold.

J-Boats have always done a great job of marketing their boats as on-design racers. Not always successful (J-145 comes to mind), but that was always the marketing focus. Catalina, not so much.

Like others have said, getting an active CP-22 fleet will require building things from scratch. If you have an active fleet on Lake Wissota, and can host a regional event, you might get me (for example) to attend from Michigan. Eventually, you might attract boats from further afield. The tough part (IMHO) is that the CP22 doesn't attract the hard core racers, but more so the club level racer, daysailers, etc. So, much of the marketing focus needs to be getting owners or prospective owners to "buy in" to the CP22 as a one design boat, and then get them to be willing to commit to travelling. As I said in my original reply, I think this should start with organizing your local boats into a cohesive fleet, and grow from there. I just wouldn't count on support from t he "national level" because unless I wrong, I don't think the national organization has really existed since around 2003 or 2004.

 

[rjbauer67]

Re: **Question** How do I start a CP-22 Fleet# at our local

 

[shnool]

Re: **Question** How do I start a CP-22 Fleet# at our local

Please see THIS thread:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=601

by the way, i had actual numbers somewhere for all the fleets, but my POINT is there are successful national associations with WAY LESS boats sold than the Capri 22. I mean HOLY wow, the B25 had a NA, and they made like 50. Its all about getting together 20 or 30 hardcore racers, and having those folks ready to meet in various venues for a series... that's IT.. you build it, and get those handful of people to meet, and the rest start to notice. It's its own draw. My personal opinion is ONLY races will form a bond that will keep this going... I mean if you wanna start REALLY simple, create a fleet, locally, and get ALL the Capris on the line every week for a 10 race series... eventually you'll attract others (make joining the fleet for the series easy for out of towners - you know transient slips, launch facilities, hotels close by at discount that kind of thing). Eventually it can grow from there into a fleet, or even build a basis for a group willing to rebuild the officer structure.

I think you folks need to rebuild the National association, then create your regional fleets. You guys are on to something for sure.