I own a 1985 Catalina 30 tall rig. The boat is out of the water and I see two parallel cracks, or gaps, in the area where the keel joins the hull, only at the front. It appears to me that perhaps the keel is cast lead or lead alloy, with threaded rods cast into the top, that run vertically upward through a spacer of approximately a uniform five inch thickness, then through the bottom of the fiberglass hull, and terminate inside the bilge with washers and nuts. It appears that the joint of the top of the spacer and hull, and the joint below, of the bottom of the spacer and the keel, were not noticeable for the first several years I had the boat. Now, however, I see, in the front only, running back about eight or ten inches, a separation between the top of the spacer and hull, and a perfectly parallel separation below, between the spacer and the lead keel. It seems to me that the joints between the lead keel and spacer, and the parallel joint above between the spacer and fiberglass hull, were assembled with a sealant compound between the materials, the nuts tightened up, then finished off with some sort of “caulking” over the outside surface, then sanded, in preparation for painting. The result was that the two parallel joints were not noticeable. Are my observations and conclusions essentially correct? And, if so, would an adequate fix be to scrape out the loose “caulking” from the surface, then “caulk” with some kind of compound, make it smooth, then paint? Or, would I be covering up some possible damage that could do bad things inside then work it’s way through again? Or, worse yet, am I wrong about what appears to be existence of a spacer, and rather there are only two parts, being the lead keel and the fiberglass hull, and what I’ve got is, one, a visible joint that simply needs sealed up and, two, not another joint above or below but rather a crack in the fiberglass hull or in the lead keel that is amazingly parallel to and similar to the joint, and which is a serious problem? Incidentally, the keel bolts in the bilge have always been kept tight. These joints I describe are presently barely visible, if not invisible, aft of the front eight to ten inches. Also, these “cracks” were not there a year ago, but became visible only very recently. IN other words, it has not been under water for many, many, months. What should I do? If I do have two joints that just need to be cleaned out, re “caulked” and then painted, with what product should I “caulk”?
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C-30 keel problems are a problem
Unfortunately you own one of the Pre-late 1987 Catalinas. Pre late 1987 Catalina would laminate marine plywood into the keel stub to build thickness faster. Because plywood absorbs water, can compress and is far weaker than fiberglass it does not make a sutable support for a heavy lead keel & your fix is going to be quite extensive to be done right. Essentially to fix your problem the keel needs to be dropped or removed, then from the inside the wood laminated into the keel stub needs to be cut out and removed. The exterior skin then needs to be prepped for re-glassing. Catalina can send directions & a laminate schedule on how to do this repair. If I remember correctly you'll also need to, at the least, lift the engine to re-glass the keel stub under the engine. Short of fixing this problem the right way you could drop the keel and rebed but it will "flex" again and open up. You can try and band-aid it from the out side but it won't even last a season functionally but cosmetically maybe. The problem with the keel movement is that you now have a soggy keel stub with very minimal inner and outer fiberglass skins holding the keel on... Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I had to do the same repair to my old C-30.. The cost was $6200.00 about 8 years ago...
Unfortunately you own one of the Pre-late 1987 Catalinas. Pre late 1987 Catalina would laminate marine plywood into the keel stub to build thickness faster. Because plywood absorbs water, can compress and is far weaker than fiberglass it does not make a sutable support for a heavy lead keel & your fix is going to be quite extensive to be done right. Essentially to fix your problem the keel needs to be dropped or removed, then from the inside the wood laminated into the keel stub needs to be cut out and removed. The exterior skin then needs to be prepped for re-glassing. Catalina can send directions & a laminate schedule on how to do this repair. If I remember correctly you'll also need to, at the least, lift the engine to re-glass the keel stub under the engine. Short of fixing this problem the right way you could drop the keel and rebed but it will "flex" again and open up. You can try and band-aid it from the out side but it won't even last a season functionally but cosmetically maybe. The problem with the keel movement is that you now have a soggy keel stub with very minimal inner and outer fiberglass skins holding the keel on... Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I had to do the same repair to my old C-30.. The cost was $6200.00 about 8 years ago...
Catalina Smile
Most C-30's I have seen including mine have or had the catalina smile. Eveyone I have spoken with it has said it is not a major problem. Fill it, barrier coat, paint and move on to another season. Check out the Catalina 30 assoc wedsite for more info. Also should be much in the archives on this site also
Most C-30's I have seen including mine have or had the catalina smile. Eveyone I have spoken with it has said it is not a major problem. Fill it, barrier coat, paint and move on to another season. Check out the Catalina 30 assoc wedsite for more info. Also should be much in the archives on this site also
I found this in the archives
I agree with this person: It's very common...not a common "problem"... Mine has it, and many others do to. Do a search in the archives for "catalina smile" and you'll read several ways to deal with it. I'll try to give you the short skinny right here: your keel is in no real danger of falling off (haven't heard of any documented cases of Catalina's shedding their keels); you can check the torque on the keel bolts, I can't remember off hand the torque value but I'm sure its in the archives too; and you can easily do a cosmetic repair to the hull-to-keel joint by opening the crack slightly with a grinder or dremmel and filling with epoxy thickened with high density filler to a peanut butter consistancy, fair and sand the crack and paint as required. And don't be surprised next time you have your boat hauled to see your Catalina smiling again. The crack often comes back.
I agree with this person: It's very common...not a common "problem"... Mine has it, and many others do to. Do a search in the archives for "catalina smile" and you'll read several ways to deal with it. I'll try to give you the short skinny right here: your keel is in no real danger of falling off (haven't heard of any documented cases of Catalina's shedding their keels); you can check the torque on the keel bolts, I can't remember off hand the torque value but I'm sure its in the archives too; and you can easily do a cosmetic repair to the hull-to-keel joint by opening the crack slightly with a grinder or dremmel and filling with epoxy thickened with high density filler to a peanut butter consistancy, fair and sand the crack and paint as required. And don't be surprised next time you have your boat hauled to see your Catalina smiling again. The crack often comes back.
Something is not right ...
The keel is glassed to the hull. The "smile" is cracked fiberglass. For the fiberglass to crack something has to move. Keels moving enough to crack the glass is not right. My boat (Hull #10) did not have the smile until after it was aground for 36 hrs. After that it had the smile when I hauled it and water started leaking (seeping) into the bilge past the bolts (studs really). I should have dropped the keel at the time, but did a cosmetic repair only and tightened the nuts. It is now 5 years later and the keel is off, new SS stud are going in (the original studs were badly rusted). The cost just for the new studs in the keel is $3000, that dos not include the cost of pulling the keel off. My keel stub had one layer of glass in the bilge, a layer of plywood, another layer of glass, and a second layer of plywood. All the wood was rotten and soft. After the repair, I highly doubt I'll see the "smile" again (unless I run aground again).
The keel is glassed to the hull. The "smile" is cracked fiberglass. For the fiberglass to crack something has to move. Keels moving enough to crack the glass is not right. My boat (Hull #10) did not have the smile until after it was aground for 36 hrs. After that it had the smile when I hauled it and water started leaking (seeping) into the bilge past the bolts (studs really). I should have dropped the keel at the time, but did a cosmetic repair only and tightened the nuts. It is now 5 years later and the keel is off, new SS stud are going in (the original studs were badly rusted). The cost just for the new studs in the keel is $3000, that dos not include the cost of pulling the keel off. My keel stub had one layer of glass in the bilge, a layer of plywood, another layer of glass, and a second layer of plywood. All the wood was rotten and soft. After the repair, I highly doubt I'll see the "smile" again (unless I run aground again).
AC is also right, and it MAY be a problem
On my '87 C-30, I developed a visible crack at the back of the keel that was noticed whenever the boat was in the slings. I could actually see through it from side-to-side. It was wide enough to fit a quarter edgewise. Although earlier Catalinas used plywood to build up the thickness of the keel sump, by '87 the keel sump was built up using a solid piece of wood (looked like teak or possible mahogony). In the final analysis, what AC dedscribed was happening to my keel sump ... that is, the wood got wet, softened, and the keel bolts compressed the wood resulting in the crack. Catalina has described an excellent and fairly inexpensive repair that is done from the inside of the boat without removing the keel. I wrote up a long description of this repair and posted it on this web site a couple of years ago (it should be in the archives), or you can contact Catalina and get their service bulliten. Steve Alchemist C-30T #4764
On my '87 C-30, I developed a visible crack at the back of the keel that was noticed whenever the boat was in the slings. I could actually see through it from side-to-side. It was wide enough to fit a quarter edgewise. Although earlier Catalinas used plywood to build up the thickness of the keel sump, by '87 the keel sump was built up using a solid piece of wood (looked like teak or possible mahogony). In the final analysis, what AC dedscribed was happening to my keel sump ... that is, the wood got wet, softened, and the keel bolts compressed the wood resulting in the crack. Catalina has described an excellent and fairly inexpensive repair that is done from the inside of the boat without removing the keel. I wrote up a long description of this repair and posted it on this web site a couple of years ago (it should be in the archives), or you can contact Catalina and get their service bulliten. Steve Alchemist C-30T #4764
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