Hi Everyone, Im thinking about putting my Hunter 380 in Charter this year down in Florida. Currently considering a few places that deal with used boats. Does anyone have any information regarding doing something like this? Any pitfalls I should look out for? Any charter company recommendations? Not looking to get rich on her, Im just looking to defray the cost of her upkeep, and sail her in a nice warm place every once and a while. Best, as always, Gerry Libertelli s/v Persistence
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Don't expect it to look like the boat that........
you gave them. Gel coat chips, scrapes, stained upohlstery etc etc. Probably 5 years of wear for every year in charter.
you gave them. Gel coat chips, scrapes, stained upohlstery etc etc. Probably 5 years of wear for every year in charter.
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Les Blackwell
It wasn't my cup of tea
Gerry, I had a Hunter 40 that I charted for five years. It was on the advice of my accountant and I thought it was a good thing. It wasn't in any way. In spite of what charter companies say, if the person has a big enough check, they qualify to take you boat out. And many charterers don't care what they do to the boat. I suspect that I am unfair to many people who charter, however, but none of the good people chartered my boat. One put it on the rocks because he didn't know how to read a chart. Another twisted off all the knobs of the stove because they didn't know to push them in for gas stoves. Another left the heads total full because they couldn't find the flush knob (!), Another wrecked my jib halyard by dropping it about a third and then rolling it in on the furler. Silverware were lost, lines dissapeared. I put a expensive set of charts on board that were in a booklet form. Really nice set of charts which several charterers tore out of the book and one actually cut up the chart "to make it easier to use." Because I had a hard dinghy, the stern of the H40 was heavily damanged because no one would use a fender like I did. Another (south seas experience) cut my dinghy line because it was too long and in the way. My advice is don't do it if you love your boat. And if you decide to do it, be sure you have a contract with the chartering company that your lawyer looks at closely. Know what is your responsibility and what is theirs What are you paying for and what are they paying for. And check with your accountant as to how this will affect your income/outgo. In the state of Washington, everytime I used the boat for myself (for pleasure), I had to pay a tax to the state since it was consider a business. This is not the same in all states. I haven't chartered my boat since that time. Now the only people who can use my boat are crew members who have passed the essential Power Squadron courses. The boat always comes back better than it went out. It is my opinion that when you put your boat into charter, that boat will never be the same. I encourage you to think very seriously about this step. Les
Gerry, I had a Hunter 40 that I charted for five years. It was on the advice of my accountant and I thought it was a good thing. It wasn't in any way. In spite of what charter companies say, if the person has a big enough check, they qualify to take you boat out. And many charterers don't care what they do to the boat. I suspect that I am unfair to many people who charter, however, but none of the good people chartered my boat. One put it on the rocks because he didn't know how to read a chart. Another twisted off all the knobs of the stove because they didn't know to push them in for gas stoves. Another left the heads total full because they couldn't find the flush knob (!), Another wrecked my jib halyard by dropping it about a third and then rolling it in on the furler. Silverware were lost, lines dissapeared. I put a expensive set of charts on board that were in a booklet form. Really nice set of charts which several charterers tore out of the book and one actually cut up the chart "to make it easier to use." Because I had a hard dinghy, the stern of the H40 was heavily damanged because no one would use a fender like I did. Another (south seas experience) cut my dinghy line because it was too long and in the way. My advice is don't do it if you love your boat. And if you decide to do it, be sure you have a contract with the chartering company that your lawyer looks at closely. Know what is your responsibility and what is theirs What are you paying for and what are they paying for. And check with your accountant as to how this will affect your income/outgo. In the state of Washington, everytime I used the boat for myself (for pleasure), I had to pay a tax to the state since it was consider a business. This is not the same in all states. I haven't chartered my boat since that time. Now the only people who can use my boat are crew members who have passed the essential Power Squadron courses. The boat always comes back better than it went out. It is my opinion that when you put your boat into charter, that boat will never be the same. I encourage you to think very seriously about this step. Les
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Claudio A. Selame
It is possible..
Dear Gerry, I placed my H430 for charter one season with a local sailing association. I interviewed the people myself and I made sure that they had experience. Still, things happened mainly because the boat was new and/or too "high-tech" for the people who chartered it. However, I did meet one person who was very experienced and responsible. The boat always came back better with him. Chartering requires a particular personality and a tolerance for ambiguity which I confess I did not have. So I decided to initiate the business myself. We took people out ourselves, cooked and cleaned and made sure the people were well taking care of and safe. In summary, if you have the guts to do it, good luck. If you do not have the character style needed for this endeavor, consider being the captain of your own boat and charter yourself out with the boat.
Dear Gerry, I placed my H430 for charter one season with a local sailing association. I interviewed the people myself and I made sure that they had experience. Still, things happened mainly because the boat was new and/or too "high-tech" for the people who chartered it. However, I did meet one person who was very experienced and responsible. The boat always came back better with him. Chartering requires a particular personality and a tolerance for ambiguity which I confess I did not have. So I decided to initiate the business myself. We took people out ourselves, cooked and cleaned and made sure the people were well taking care of and safe. In summary, if you have the guts to do it, good luck. If you do not have the character style needed for this endeavor, consider being the captain of your own boat and charter yourself out with the boat.
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Greg Beckner
Chartering
Don't do it. Its a rip-off. I have had my 420 in charter with Florida Yacht Charter for 2 years and can't wait to get out of the deal. I have had many problems with these people and their "questionable" business practices. Needless to say I am not happy with the condition of my boat or the terrible negative cash flow. If you wan't all the details please send your email address to the address below. Greg Beckner S/V Champagne Girl gregorybeckner@hotmail.com
Don't do it. Its a rip-off. I have had my 420 in charter with Florida Yacht Charter for 2 years and can't wait to get out of the deal. I have had many problems with these people and their "questionable" business practices. Needless to say I am not happy with the condition of my boat or the terrible negative cash flow. If you wan't all the details please send your email address to the address below. Greg Beckner S/V Champagne Girl gregorybeckner@hotmail.com
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Tim Schaaf
Agree with Les
I actually worked as a skipper and instructor for one of the better companies......and I STILL agree with Les. Ask yourself, how do you really treat a rental car? If it has only a hundred miles on it, do you baby it to run it in? When people rent something, they treat it very differently. And Claudio, do you have your Six-Pack license? Skippering your own boat for hire requires a license, even if you rent it as a bareboat and just "go along".
I actually worked as a skipper and instructor for one of the better companies......and I STILL agree with Les. Ask yourself, how do you really treat a rental car? If it has only a hundred miles on it, do you baby it to run it in? When people rent something, they treat it very differently. And Claudio, do you have your Six-Pack license? Skippering your own boat for hire requires a license, even if you rent it as a bareboat and just "go along".
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Gerry Libertelli
Thanks very much folks!
Wow! Now this is a good example of the Internet being a great feedback channel. In my quest to figure out what to do with my yacht, I have not heard opinions like this. It is like they say, "Everything is different when you are an owner". I've seen it in my own business, and now Im seeing it in sailboat ownership. I do have one opinion to share. The difference may be in the outfit. I've chartered from small places (not the big chains) that are VERY particular about who charter's their boats. In fact, Im considering a small charter company in St. Augustine that is attached to a small sailing school. That may just be the ticket for me. Perhaps in the charter industry, bigger is not necessarily better. What does everyone think of this strategy? Hooking up with a smaller company that is going to respect your wishes. Gerry
Wow! Now this is a good example of the Internet being a great feedback channel. In my quest to figure out what to do with my yacht, I have not heard opinions like this. It is like they say, "Everything is different when you are an owner". I've seen it in my own business, and now Im seeing it in sailboat ownership. I do have one opinion to share. The difference may be in the outfit. I've chartered from small places (not the big chains) that are VERY particular about who charter's their boats. In fact, Im considering a small charter company in St. Augustine that is attached to a small sailing school. That may just be the ticket for me. Perhaps in the charter industry, bigger is not necessarily better. What does everyone think of this strategy? Hooking up with a smaller company that is going to respect your wishes. Gerry
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Miles
If you're going to do it...
I'd say a smaller company might be a good way to go, especially if you know and are comfortable with the owner. We had a boat in charter for a while and it worked out ok but there was definately a lot of extra wear and tear, missing items, etc. The money was about like they described but very seasonal. I think the rental car analogy someone mentioned is a good one. Consider also that many of the people chartering boats don't even have the equivalent of a drivers training permit, how well will they take care of it? If owning a charter boat was such a great idea one would think the charter companies would want to own them directly instead of trying to get owners to put their boats into the programs. No one really wants to own an expensive, rapidly depreciating asset that gets beat up all the time. The charter company will make good money while you're left holding the bag. Be sure you have a solid contract with the company even if they seem like good people. You'll also need a lot more insurance, and might want to think about owning the boat in a corporation or LLC. What happens if a boatload of doctors sink your boat and drown? You might be personally liable as the boat's owner. You really have to think of it a business with all the associated liabilities, tax headaches, etc. On the other hand when you show up to go sailing I'm sure you'll get a warm welcome and a nice clean boat that comes reasonably close to paying for itself. Good luck with your decision!
I'd say a smaller company might be a good way to go, especially if you know and are comfortable with the owner. We had a boat in charter for a while and it worked out ok but there was definately a lot of extra wear and tear, missing items, etc. The money was about like they described but very seasonal. I think the rental car analogy someone mentioned is a good one. Consider also that many of the people chartering boats don't even have the equivalent of a drivers training permit, how well will they take care of it? If owning a charter boat was such a great idea one would think the charter companies would want to own them directly instead of trying to get owners to put their boats into the programs. No one really wants to own an expensive, rapidly depreciating asset that gets beat up all the time. The charter company will make good money while you're left holding the bag. Be sure you have a solid contract with the company even if they seem like good people. You'll also need a lot more insurance, and might want to think about owning the boat in a corporation or LLC. What happens if a boatload of doctors sink your boat and drown? You might be personally liable as the boat's owner. You really have to think of it a business with all the associated liabilities, tax headaches, etc. On the other hand when you show up to go sailing I'm sure you'll get a warm welcome and a nice clean boat that comes reasonably close to paying for itself. Good luck with your decision!
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Tim Schaaf
NOT a sailing school!
I agree that smaller is better, in this case. And, in a sailing school, there is always an experienced instructor aboard until the folks get qualified and certified. But, putting a boat in a sailing school is the LAST thing I would do. Remember, I said I taught in one! It was based in SF Bay, where the winds are strong, so that may color my opinion. If the school is thorough, there will be lots of docking and undocking, some of it better and some of it worse, and lots of inexperienced sail handling. Your sails will be luffed a lot. If they do lots of MOB drills, and if the area is windy, there will be very heavy wear on the sails, with lots and lots of luffing. But, I will say this. Students new to sailing tend to have a great deal of respect for boats and do their level best to take care of them and clean them, as long as they know what is expected.....wherein lies the difficulty. Why don't you visit the school while they are teaching, and see how heavily the boats and gear get used? Or, if you attended a sailing school, yourself, think back to the experience. Good luck in whatever you finally decide.
I agree that smaller is better, in this case. And, in a sailing school, there is always an experienced instructor aboard until the folks get qualified and certified. But, putting a boat in a sailing school is the LAST thing I would do. Remember, I said I taught in one! It was based in SF Bay, where the winds are strong, so that may color my opinion. If the school is thorough, there will be lots of docking and undocking, some of it better and some of it worse, and lots of inexperienced sail handling. Your sails will be luffed a lot. If they do lots of MOB drills, and if the area is windy, there will be very heavy wear on the sails, with lots and lots of luffing. But, I will say this. Students new to sailing tend to have a great deal of respect for boats and do their level best to take care of them and clean them, as long as they know what is expected.....wherein lies the difficulty. Why don't you visit the school while they are teaching, and see how heavily the boats and gear get used? Or, if you attended a sailing school, yourself, think back to the experience. Good luck in whatever you finally decide.
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Steve W.
St. Augustine shoaling....I live 30 miles from...
St.Augustine and I constantly hear stories of the shifting shoals and how difficult the entrance to the ICW from the Atlantic can be,especially if the tidea are wrong. If you are considering the charter company I am thinking of, they advertise turning their students loose after attending their bareboat certification school..and I bet they don't stay in the ICW, which means educated novices may be negotiating this entrance in your boat. We have frequent fast moving thunderstorms that may catch them offshore...you can fill in the blanks. We just did a BVI charter and everyone I talked to ran their diesels at full throttle and the running joke was the deductable is only $600.00, so why worry about losing or breaking anything?The whole idea just makes my knees knock. By the way, I got to deliver a 380 and that is one nice boat. Good Luck.
St.Augustine and I constantly hear stories of the shifting shoals and how difficult the entrance to the ICW from the Atlantic can be,especially if the tidea are wrong. If you are considering the charter company I am thinking of, they advertise turning their students loose after attending their bareboat certification school..and I bet they don't stay in the ICW, which means educated novices may be negotiating this entrance in your boat. We have frequent fast moving thunderstorms that may catch them offshore...you can fill in the blanks. We just did a BVI charter and everyone I talked to ran their diesels at full throttle and the running joke was the deductable is only $600.00, so why worry about losing or breaking anything?The whole idea just makes my knees knock. By the way, I got to deliver a 380 and that is one nice boat. Good Luck.
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Al
Not to mention "northeaster's"...
No, Not the northeasters of New England and New Jersey fame, no novice would go out in those. These northeasters are the northeasterly winds blowing around the south side of a strong high presure center to the north (say near New Jersey for example). Think about this when y'all are enjoying those nice crystal clear, crisp fall and spring days, where do you think all of the wind is? I'll tell you, its blowing across the Florida east coast. This wind can blow 20-25 knots with higher gusts, chop up the seas to 7-10 feet within an afternoon. After a while, the breakers on the shoals north of the jetties of St Augustine Inlet can become huge and on outgoing tides there can be large standing waves in the channel I actually saw a wind surfer sail out there and surf on one once back in the '80s. More than one boat has wound up on the beaches of Anastasia Island State Park under those conditions. In fact about a 34 foot sloop did the trick in October of 1999, A dive boat in '94 or 95, and a shrimper in the '80 all immediately come to mind. In fact shrimper (with engine trouble) was beached in 20 knot winds and rough seas at Vilano Beach (north side of the Jetties) two weeks ago. The best part about it is to those unfamilar with local weather conditions it looks like its going to be beautiful. Heck, the cold front is to our south and high pressure is building in, lets go sailing! Not trying to sway you one way or the other, but things aren't as placid down here as people think. Most days are nice, but it can turn rough very quickly. Locals know what to expect, but a charter I don't know. I do see a lot of bashed up boats being worked on in Comanche Cove Marina, but its a yard and boats get beat up. One other consideration, St Augustine is a hurricane hell, if and when the big one finally hits, there's just no place to go. Floyd was 150 miles offshore, and it damaged the city marina and sunk a ketch on its mooring. Remember Charleston after Hugo, well that's what the city's seawall is likely to look like when this area's number is finally up. That's one reason why I don't keep my boat down there, I'd like to, but...
No, Not the northeasters of New England and New Jersey fame, no novice would go out in those. These northeasters are the northeasterly winds blowing around the south side of a strong high presure center to the north (say near New Jersey for example). Think about this when y'all are enjoying those nice crystal clear, crisp fall and spring days, where do you think all of the wind is? I'll tell you, its blowing across the Florida east coast. This wind can blow 20-25 knots with higher gusts, chop up the seas to 7-10 feet within an afternoon. After a while, the breakers on the shoals north of the jetties of St Augustine Inlet can become huge and on outgoing tides there can be large standing waves in the channel I actually saw a wind surfer sail out there and surf on one once back in the '80s. More than one boat has wound up on the beaches of Anastasia Island State Park under those conditions. In fact about a 34 foot sloop did the trick in October of 1999, A dive boat in '94 or 95, and a shrimper in the '80 all immediately come to mind. In fact shrimper (with engine trouble) was beached in 20 knot winds and rough seas at Vilano Beach (north side of the Jetties) two weeks ago. The best part about it is to those unfamilar with local weather conditions it looks like its going to be beautiful. Heck, the cold front is to our south and high pressure is building in, lets go sailing! Not trying to sway you one way or the other, but things aren't as placid down here as people think. Most days are nice, but it can turn rough very quickly. Locals know what to expect, but a charter I don't know. I do see a lot of bashed up boats being worked on in Comanche Cove Marina, but its a yard and boats get beat up. One other consideration, St Augustine is a hurricane hell, if and when the big one finally hits, there's just no place to go. Floyd was 150 miles offshore, and it damaged the city marina and sunk a ketch on its mooring. Remember Charleston after Hugo, well that's what the city's seawall is likely to look like when this area's number is finally up. That's one reason why I don't keep my boat down there, I'd like to, but...
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Al
Here's a few links
Like I said, not my business or goal to discourage/encourage you, but the stories here may help you make an informed decision about the inlet and area. Truthfully, I can't tell you the inlet's current condition. I haven't been out of it in some time. http://www.staugustine.com/stories/060601/new_0606010008.shtml http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/060301/spo_6335007.html http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/091299/spo_09_12_l0.html http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/091099/met_2b1dredg.html
Like I said, not my business or goal to discourage/encourage you, but the stories here may help you make an informed decision about the inlet and area. Truthfully, I can't tell you the inlet's current condition. I haven't been out of it in some time. http://www.staugustine.com/stories/060601/new_0606010008.shtml http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/060301/spo_6335007.html http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/091299/spo_09_12_l0.html http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/091099/met_2b1dredg.html
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