Pushing your limits

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Greg

Final Race

It was the final club race of 2003, late Sept. Just before heading to the boat one of my regular crew called to see if he could bring a friend along, no problem, I was glad to have the extra hand. The wind was blowing about 25K in my club before heading out to Presque Isle Bay for the race. Considering this is only the second year of boat ownership and first year racing I was having some thoughts as to what we might be getting into. I sail a 1986 H-25.5 and was wondering if the rig was in good enough shape to handle it. The vote was "Lets Go" Well after clearing the outer wall of the club the wind was 30K with one gust measured at 40k. Thankfully the race committee made it a short windward, leeward race track loop. We start with reefed main and a heavy 110 head sail and were managing fairly well compared to some of the other boats. Healing at 40 degrees was quite a rush but we were keeping the rail out of the water for the most part. With every heavy gust I thought for sure we were either going to snap some rigging or go over the rail. We learned alot that day about what the boat can take and how different angles to the wind can make for a much more comfortable ride without much loss of speed. It was a great adrenaline rush. Of 15 to start only 8 finished, with some torn sails and one aground, we were able to say we were 1 of the survivors.
 
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tom wyckoff

"KNOWING YOUR LIMITS" before "PUSHING YOUR LIMITS"

"PUSHING YOUR LIMITS" is a very interesting subject. Knowing your limits, before you push them is important. My very first lesson learned involved "PUSHING MY LIMITS", and was almost a disaster. It began at the age of eight years old and my strong desire to learn to sail. First, I talked my friend, Bill, into helping me build a sailboat out of a borrowed wooden rowboat. It only took a couple days to gather the materiels needed to convert the rowboat into a sailboat. After about a week of after school work, Bill and I had constructed a mast rigging and rudder system that could be lashed onto the rowboat. It took several more days to get the rudder to work AND not fall off the transon of our borrowed boat. We couldn't make any permentant rig installations due to the fact the boat wasn't ours and we didn't really have permission to use the boat. Mostly, it just sat, pulled out on the shore and full of rainwater. the only time the water got bailed out was when I did it to use it for fishing. Bill, sometimes helped bail and use the boat, but took lots of coaching to get him to do it. After much experimenting with the rigging, most I did by myself after school, because Bill didn't have the same passion for learning to sail as I did, the sailboat was ready for her first real voyage. Bill and I had conducted several shake-down voyages with-in 200 yards of the boat dock located in the small cove where our boat lived. Now it was Saturday, Bill was willing and I was ready for a real sailing voyage. We sat out to cross the lake, (at least, that was my idea!). When we got out on the main lake and the wind filled our homemade sail (bedsheet) it really was thrilling to travel by wind and without power. Bill was even enjoying manning the sails that required less adjustments on the lake than in the confinds of the cove. Our cove was about half a mile lone and about 900 feet wide. The main lake is about 2.5 or 3 miles wide and 12 to 14 miles long. Today the wind was coming down the lake at about ten to twelve miles per hour and fairly study making for easy sailing on a broad reach with our squaresail rig. Now considering our boat wasn't designed eather above or below the water for efficient headway, our destination target was slowly being swept windward to uncontrolled leeway. Finally, we made it accross the lake. After a short rest and consumption of the sandwichs and koolaid I had packed just for this adventure, it was time to complete our voyage. Upon returning to our dock we now find making progress is even more difficult becouse the wind has increased and we are futher downwind than when we started out. Our goal was getting father away as we got father out into the lake. Now the clouds are becomming darker and the rain is starting. The lighting has convinced Bill to give up trying to control the sails and he didn't want anything to do with the tiller. I was having trouble keeping the boat headed into the waves, that by this time were twenty feet tall, (according to Bill & I was beginning to believe him). The wind has increased to the point the rain was stinging our face and skin. The trees have disappeared and the the sail is beginning to develop a tear along it's tack. By this time, Bill has established a death grip on the boatseat and will not help take down the sail. He isn't wearing his PFD and will not put it on. As the sail began to turn the boat the rudder also gave up and broke off sending the boat to broaching and a gust of wind sent our boat completely over. When things begin to stop spinning I realized Bill was gone. After a frantic search did not locate Bill, I became really scared and began to look under the overturned boat. There was Bill, still sitting on the boatseat, gripping the seat. I was having much trouble getting under the boat and I could not pry his hand from the seat and had to return to the surface for a breath of air. Chocking, and unable to get a good breath, I suddenly saw Bill was floating beside the boat, face down, arms limp. I reached out and pulled Bill closer to the boat but could not get him to respond when a large wave sent the boat on top of us. When I did surface, Bill was on the other side of the boat chocking and attempting to climb on the boat. About that time Bills PFD floated by and I grabbed it. Getting to the other side of the boat I still couldn't get Bill to put on the Lifevest. After some time the wind, storm and waves went away. Bill and I were still with the boat and the lake was now very still. Almost to the point of being scary. The clouds were still heavy with lots of fog setting in and the daylight was almost gone, we could barely make out the trees. After discussing it we desided to swim for the shore. Bill, still would not put on the PFD, and mind was missing also. I did have it on during the storm but was having lots of trouble getting under the boat to look for Bill. I guess I took it off then and must have lost it, don't remember, so we both hung onto the lifevest as we swam. It was getting very dark and we were not sure if we were swimming in the right direction or not when very suddenly a boat was about to run over the top of us. Bill and I were beating the water wildly and shouting as loud as we could. One fisherman was at the bow of the boat with a flashlight as look-out. He spotted us and we were rescued. Late, I got into lots of trouble with Bill's folks and I thought the sheriff was going to put me in prison for the rest of my life for taking the rowboat. Bill, never went sailing with me again. His family didn't even want him to go fishing with me. The next year I found a really nice sailboat that I bargined for by working after school to pay for it (I worked off eleven thousand dollars worth of chores before getting that boat paid for) I also enrolled in a boater safety course and took a life saving course as well. In addition to the informal boating courses available to mariners, I strongly recommend every boater read at least two books before setting out on any boat. #1. "STORM TACTICS" by Lin & Larry Pardey #2. "DDDB" "Drag Devise Data Base" by Victor Shane. Fairsailing everyone, hooyasailor said it !
 
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jeff 14640

35 knots, Barnegat bay

We headed out on a beautiful sunny day that was "breezy" with no foulies, just shorts, tshirts and lunch. We had a great sail south on the Barnegat bay under reefed main and genny until we got to oyster creek and caught a gust down the creek which put us over to the point of not having steerage. We headed up and rolled up the head sail, came about and realized that a broad reach screaming down bay would lead to beating back up bay to get home. We spent the next couple of hours on our rail taking heavy spray from every swell over the bow into the cockpit of our catalina 22. It truly was the only time in 30+yrs of sailing the bay that I was nervous, both for the equipment and for our safety while questioning my skills to return us without incident. We had closed up the companionway to prevent water from getting below and tried to duck the water coming in but ended up looking like human pretzels once we dried with the salt crusted our skin and clothes. We learned some important lessons that day, primarily that both we and the boat can handle the heavier conditions if needed. Second, nothing is free, the great ride downwind must be paid for with a beat back when you're on a round trip. Third, listen to the weather before you go out for the wind , not after you return, and fourth, I should have left out a small amount of head sail to balance the rig and allow us to point a little higher on the ride home..................The season is upon us, enjoy!
 
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Eric Matus

37 Knots Pleasure Sail

Rented a Cat 27 from Fiddler's Cove in 1981-2 on days when cold fronts were moving thru winds gusting to 35+. The rental Cat 27s only had 120, & 150 Genoas and two reef Mains. The Cat 27's with 120 and 2 reefs could sail 100 t0 180 degrees relative okay and hove to fine but to go upwind was a furl main and power up with 120 to make headway upwind. I'm still amazed that we could check out the 27's in those conditions considering the suit of sails provided. Above 30 knots in upwind situations I would prefer Storm staysail and trysail (replacing furled main).
 
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Mike

Some Tall Tales Here...

With all due respect, the depth of BS is getting a little deep here. First off, if anyone here can point to any yacht club that doesn't have a clause in their SIs that cancels racing when sustained wind is over something like 25, I'll eat my computer. I most likely believe the stories the best of the people that got caught in storms and had the crap scared out of them. The stories of pleasant sailing in 45+ wind are ridiculous.
 
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Tom Monroe

I don't recommend this ...

... as a way of new boat high wind testing! My new-to-me C27 went in the water Wednesday. She was delivered and had to go on slings and launch cause she didn't come with a cradle or stands. So Wednesday turns out to be 25 gusting to 35 (forecast, later the gusts were reported at 45), and then the lake is too low to launch in the marina, so they tell me they're taking her across the street to the public ramp, which means a 1 1/2 mile motor back up the lake and around the point to get back to the marina. Put the outboard on, got it hooked up, gave the bulb a couple squeezes, and there is gas running down the shaft. The O ring is missing from the hose connector. Drive like crazy into town, the Honda store says I need a refit kit cause the engine was the subject of a recall. $50.00. Buy the kit, drive madly back out to the lake, install the new kit. By now, the wind and waves are really clocking, and I tell the guy I don't want to go in. He says there are two others waiting, and my options are to go in or pay $500 extra in sling fees to wait until tomorrow. Figuring I'm being very dumb and wishing I had more money, I agreed, knowing that if I can't make it, I can fall off to a protected cove and anchor. They haul me over, put me in, engine starts and runs fine, and I'm off. Five foot waves, wind on the nose, the mast is still not up cause I have to get back around to the marina to get to the gin pole. So I'm out there, crashing through the waves in a boat I've never handled, hoping the motor I've never run doesn't give me any trouble, cause then I'm down to anchoring if not (I rigged and readied it before I left), and I look down and there is no more water coming out of the cooling hole. Oh #$%^&, nothing really to do but keep going, heart in my throat, and trying to look confident for my son-in-law who is on a sailboat for the first time in his life. Make it around the point, turn for home down the channel to the marina, and discover I REALLY like this boat downwind. Always amazing what a 180 turn will do for your day. Boy does she fly on the waves. Can't wait to do this under sail. Port into the marina, hard starboard past the breakwater, one good burst of power, a wild guess at how she'll pivot and how much to allow for the honking wind, hard port, and she settles right up to the dock in the best (luckiest) high wind docking I've made in years. We'll, now it turns out the ginpole is broken and I have to have the outboard looked at, so sailing may be a couple weeks away. Any day on boats ... Tom
 
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jcherubini

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Jan 22, 2003
744
Hunter 25_73-83 Burlington NJ
SAILED or BEEN IN?

Does this mean SAILED in or BEEN in? I met a guy in Barnegat who had come down outside in a Cal 30, which he happened to swear by, and bragged how well the boat handled. 'Yeah, we saw that storm coming and got the sails down just in time!' I was taken aback. 'You're nuts, right?' 'Not me, baby. When I see that coming I get the sail down fast.' I wonder what kind of motion this guy had underway, rolling around with the prop half-cavitating in 60-MPH gusts with no sail on to dampen the boat. Why do so many people think the engine is the safest or even fastest way to go? I sailed our C44 cutter home from Annapolis in 60+ under just the staysail. Boat was remarkable docile in all that and the only water on deck came from melting hailstones. Also sailed on my uncle's C-and-C 35 in 55+, during which we were cracking jokes about the anenometer lying and critiquing the fit of each other's foulies. Boat was rail-down at about 10 kts while my dad made coffee down below. My cousins Rick and Dave sailed my other uncle's C48 schooner to Newport, after fouling the propshaft while pulling Rick back aboard in a gale. Just put the rail down and hung on-- under all plain sail they did 14 kts plus. Unce Frit came up on watch and gave them h*ll. But the boat barely even got wet. A proper sailboat is meant to be SAILED. I'd never power in any slop like that. Wouldn't even think of it. ... just my two cents. JC 2
 
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jcherubini

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Jan 22, 2003
744
Hunter 25_73-83 Burlington NJ
hello to Mike of Houston

The TRUE experiences I noted were a time-sensitive return to home, a race on LI Sound, and a show delivery in the Atlantic. I personally watched a guy take a 1974 H25 (like mine) out at Barnegat in weather gusting through 40. It was blowing so hard you didn't even want to stand on the dock. He never even shortened sail-- just let the jib luff all to h*ll and the boat stood up fine. Barely even heeled. Knowing how to depower the boat when necessary is KEY to gnarly-weather sailing. With all due respect to those who-- with very good reason-- get a little weirded-out by it, there ARE those who can face the weather intellectually first and deal with it on its own terms. I used to be terrified of heavy weather but got very used to it with experience-- as I am glad to see so many people here have done too. JC 2
 
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Tom S

J Cherubini -- It all depends on the conditions

I've been caught trying to outrun a huge cold front with severe thunderstorms on LI Sound last summer. (mon Jul 21st I believe). For me, at that time, for the duration projected where the storm would be the worst, I made a conscious decision to lower all sails turn around and 'face the storm'. For me & my boat & that day it was the right decision. The storm hit so fast that the seas on the Sound didn't have anytime to get big. I was "lying ahull" but with the helm over, and driving to 45 degree's into the wind and the motor going it was almost like I had the boat practically "heave'd to" and locked in solid at about 15 degrees heel. Any sail up and it would not have been the same. I have talked about that thunderstorm and hurricane force gusts that hit that day on this forum before, it was something. Lightning all around and some electronics knocked out from nearby strikes. The winds were so strong that the inflatable dinghy (with a full gas tank) were spinning around in the air like a wind sock toy, even with the dinghy pulled up close to the boat. It was a literal white out - Gusts were easily above 80 knots. (Wind meter even hit 'max') But I do agree, if I was in the open ocean/waters, had plenty of leeway, or the duration of the storm was not going to be short I would have some sail up and mostly sailing at what became the best 'attitude'
 
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Norman E. Pullin

"A Blow to Remember

Last October, 2004 heading south from Lund on the Malispina Peninsula to Blubber Bay on Texada Island, a distance of about 8 knotical miles, we encountered a south easterly gale of between 50 and 55 knots. The rain and wind were dead on the nose and increased to the point that we were making absolutely no headway under power. We finally realized that if we put out a very small amount of the furling jib and tacked back and forth we could make substantial headway even against very high high seas. After 7 hours we arrived in Blubber Bay in the dark and were able to find a sheltered anchorage and drop the hook for the night. My crew of 3 experienced sailors and myself were dead tired after finally setting anchor. I don't think the two grogs we all had ever tasted better that evening after we settled down below. The next morning at breakfast upon discussing how we handled the situation we all agreed that we handled the situation properly, probably because no one panicked and cool heads prevailed. From this experience I feel confident that "Sweet Caroline 1" can handle most everything mother nature can bring to bear
 
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ex-admin

Final results

Final results for the Quick Quiz ending May 2, 2004: The highest wind I've sailed in is: 32% 30-39 knots  30% 20-29 knots  28% 40 knots or more 09% Less than 20 knots  1,549 owners responding
 
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Mark/Hunter 25

Harbor squall

In the summer of 1986 I sailed a daysailing 16' home built catamaran. Skys were blue and sunny and we were heading back to shore in the harbor when a squall hit out of nowhere. Winds of 40kts and gusty, dark ominous skys and rain. At the time it was low tide and the double hulls had 3ft dagger boards I didn't have time to pull out. We hit a mussel bed at approx. 17kts, the boat heeled over, the side stay to the weather snapped and the mast went over. I thought the good news in all this was that low tide supplied me with a 3ft deep walk way across the harbor to our trailer and launch. So I began walking and pushing the boat to shore. To make matters worse, I had my buddy and two screaming girls on board. I must have walked 300yds when the depth of the water became deeper and deeper until I began swimming, of course futile. Luckily the harbor master was out on another call and saw us and tow us into the dock. Of course by that time, the weather was beautiful and sunny! In hindsight, I should have taken the the jib down and reduced the mainsail to 25% and ridden out the storm, instead of trying to out run the squall.
 
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Mario Pasquini

Highest winds

I entered my C & C 30 in The Around Long Island Race in the mid 80's. Coming through Plum Gut with an adverse tide the winds were a steady 40 Knts with gusts to 48 over the deck. We were double reefed and luffing the main with a low cut #3 jib. The wind was on the nose with very steep waves. The bow would fall off of a wave, bury, and lift spray that would wet the main to the spreaders. We rounded the gut in first place in our division but needed a razor jib(which we didn't have) the wind was on the nose going back. We finished 2 and 2 on corrected time...It was quite a race.
 
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Chuck

H22

A couple of years ago a storm blew up (I never saw a barometer drop so fast in my life) while I was still about 4 miles ESE of Bakers island. Nasty sustained winds of 30+ with gusts to 40. Had a reefed main and she came completely out of the water while cresting waves several times. Scared the living hell out of the first timer I was with. When we got close enough to the harbor I headed into the wind to drop sail, and took a beating from the waves, and my pal opened the fwd hatch, only to see the glass blown right out of it. Nasty azz weather and I'm not in any hurry to repeat it. Safety lines and PFDs that day I'll tell you.
 
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mrbill

40knts - hobie 16

war story time... young and stupid, me and buddy went out in 25knts, gust to 30+ hobie 16, great fun, hard to keep it from flipping, both in traps, out about 2 hrs, notice a squall moving in, try to run back towards shore, before the leading edge hits, no luck, micro burst hits, well over 35knts, Crakkkkkkkkk, boom, buddy and mast go flying to leward, I release out of my trap and fall into water winward... rain hits hard, try to figur out what happend, rig is in water to leward, notice large 4' section of hobie deck is missing, (starboard hull) under chainplate/windward stay. the gust ripped the top deck of the hobie off, but the hull still floated. we haul the rig and sails on deck tie it off, and wave down a passing couple in a skiff, they tow us 3 miles to shore... just as we get to the shore, we shift too much weight to damaged hull and it floods. but we save the boat, winch it on the trailer, and go home. the hobie was about #1300 about 1973 vintage... later they changed the chainplate to a larger model to better spread load... as dad said, if you're going to be stupid, you better be lucky!
 
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John Day

2003 Bermuda Cruising Rally: Hunter 380

The Fox III, my 2001 Hunter 380, her crew, and I withstood three days of gale winds and seas on our passage from Norfolk, VA to Bermuda during the 2003 Bermuda Cruising Rally. A very slow moving front caught us on the second night out and crawled along with us through lumpy seas for the duration of the trip. We flew the furled 110 jib with a few feet of foot length and the roller furling mainsail with one foot of "white" showing for the better part of two days. We carried 5.5 + knots on a broad reach the entire time with seas in the 10-15 foot range. Some of the other boats in the fleet kept thier yachts more "powered up" and finished earlier but their crews showed the strains of sea sickness, sleep deprivation, and lack of hot meals. We kept the Fox III relatively flat, ate well, and ran the generator and AC all night, every night, to keep the crew rested and healthy. The trip back was just about as much fun. The Gulf Stream passage was very difficult with four storms presenting better than 60 knot winds. On the last day out I quipped, "give me one hour with the winds under 30 knots and I'll be happy." We ended up motoring home. Hunter builds a great yacht. Properly set up, she'll keep you out of trouble. D-Day Skipper, Owner, Fox III
 
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frank arndorfer

following seas and following winds

Was delivering my H340 to the dealer (traded in on a new 426DS) and was enjoying a pleasant broad reach in 10-12kts and 3 ft seas. Complacency (spelled right.??? Kept me from realizing changing conditions until I found myself almost dead downwind in 25kts, 6ft seas, and full sails still up. Fortunately I had a preventer rigged which allowed me to "inch" around to a more favorable position of sail to where I could reef (and eventually furl) and get things back under control. I was single-handing at the time so no one was able to witness my antics (read: CONCERN).!!!! Taught me a lot about keeping current with conditions and what I was capable of versus the boat. Like many other posts, my conclusions were the boat was capable of much more than I was.
 
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Jeff Engholm

Beautifull Sunset Mistral

A crossing on "Sincerity" a Baglietto 28 meter Ketch built in 1928. Wow, Look at that sunset!!! One of those beautiful Mediterranean hazy humid late mid summer sunsets. Barometer high and stable, weather forcast winds variable 5-15 in the Golf de Leon. Menorca to St. Tropez bound. My crew and I were gearing up for a night of motoring as the two day passage, typical as they are , takes us through the Golf de Leon that can be anything from a smooth dozy motor x-ing or the complete opposite (imagine what you like). A few hours into the x-ing we barely saw Menorca on our stern. Sun setting and dinner cleaned up ( we always seem to eat late over there, a habit I can't break over here!) we set the watch and everyone went about their duties to prepare for , as I say the "what if" rule. The boat was then secured and the night came apon us "tranquilamente". After a while the wind started to fill in, Yeh!! Sails up Turn off the engine, we can sail... Well the wind continued to fill in nicely to 10 to 15, boatspeed 7-8+ kts. My average to dead recon a x-ing. Great. The wind then builds a bit more, 20 + OK lets full (3) reef the main at least, the Mizzen was OK and the yankee was driving us well, boat speed 9+ kts. Hey the wind keeps increasing, 25-28 kts. "Make sure all the hatches are secure, yankee down, storm jib up". For the rest of the night the wind had gone from a good strong breeze to a serious blow pegging the anemometer to it's max of 50 kts. and gusting higher. The dark night was well apon us we managed to get the main down and stowed. Harnessed, PFD'd, drag lines off the stern and engine on, we had to reef the mizzen and storm jib to keep stability and drive . Old ketches are sailed and worked from out on deck... It was the first time after 4 atlantic x-ing's and over 30 000 offshore miles that I felt my lips burn from the constant pounding of sea water and spray. The wind was reported to be gusting at aroung 70 kts. that night from France Meteo. The fast x-ing lasted just over 24 hours, we pulled into the breakwall of St. Tropez at dark the following night totally exhausted BUT, all aboard and nothing broken. The charterers then came aboard and wanted drinks and snacks!!, but the ice had all melted as we had just come off extreme minimum services... 50+kts. is not exciting but with the right "what if" dicipline you will get through it as we did. Jeff 1 800 482 5221
 
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