Peggie, I am in the process of installing a new holding tank (the prev owner had one of those flexible bladders, which was starting to leak – yuck!). I have followed your book and postings of others and think that I have a good plan. My setup is as follows: 1975 Pearson 26, WC headmate, thru-hull intake. From the exit of the head, there is a vertical run of hose to a vented loop, then to a Y-valve. The exit thru-hull is still plumbed, though being in the Chesapeake, we do not use it. The hose to the thru-hull is about 3 feet long, while the hose to the holding tank is about 5 feet long. I am ordering a 9 gal. ronco tank with a dip-tube for pump-out. Now for my problem... When the head is in flush mode, the pump handle is easy to operate, water is drawn into the bowl, etc. When you move to dry mode, the pump handle becomes more difficult to operate, until a certain point where it seems that you have moved the water up past the vented loop. Because my holding tank is not yet installed, I opened up the exit thru-hull to push some raw intake water through the system (shh...). I noticed the _same_ resistance of the pump handle. This would seem to point to the vented loop as the clog, vs the holding tank vent. Somehow, though, it doesn’t make sense. I can’t be pressurizing the vented loop, even if the vent isn’t open. The head doesn’t fill with water if left in pump-dry position, but could there be a clog or something in the head discharge hose? Thanks for all your help! Also, would you recommend a clean-out inspection port on the top of the holding tank, or is this not necessary? David PS. I know that I should re-build the head, but there are so many other projects!!!
Pump Handle Resistance
- Thread starter David J.11350
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The problem has to be in the toilet.
If there were a problem in the discharge plumbing downstream of the toilet, you'd have the same problem pumping in both modes. And I don't think it's a problem that rebuilding will solve...'cuz the part isn't in the kit. So I think it's time for a new toilet. Btw, a vented loop cannot be "pressurized." (I don't think any of y'all have a clue how vented loops work!) The air valve only allows air to be PULLED into the line to break a siphon...when the air valve is closed, the loop is no different from any other section of hose that water/waste is being pushed through. If there is no air valve, or it's stuck open when water is being pushed over the loop, that water will just squirt out the hole. About your tank: 9 gals is VERY small--only holds about 16-18 flushes...not enough to last two people a weekend...3 people willl fill it up in day. A 5-6 gal portapotty holds 40-50 flushes. So before going with a new toilet and tank that small, I'd give a lot of thought to installing one of the models (SeaLand 965MSD Sanipottie is the best quality) that can be permanently installed and fitted for pumpout...no toilet pump to maintain...no plumbing except the pumpout hose and vent, and less than half the cost of a new toilet and tank. Think about it...
If there were a problem in the discharge plumbing downstream of the toilet, you'd have the same problem pumping in both modes. And I don't think it's a problem that rebuilding will solve...'cuz the part isn't in the kit. So I think it's time for a new toilet. Btw, a vented loop cannot be "pressurized." (I don't think any of y'all have a clue how vented loops work!) The air valve only allows air to be PULLED into the line to break a siphon...when the air valve is closed, the loop is no different from any other section of hose that water/waste is being pushed through. If there is no air valve, or it's stuck open when water is being pushed over the loop, that water will just squirt out the hole. About your tank: 9 gals is VERY small--only holds about 16-18 flushes...not enough to last two people a weekend...3 people willl fill it up in day. A 5-6 gal portapotty holds 40-50 flushes. So before going with a new toilet and tank that small, I'd give a lot of thought to installing one of the models (SeaLand 965MSD Sanipottie is the best quality) that can be permanently installed and fitted for pumpout...no toilet pump to maintain...no plumbing except the pumpout hose and vent, and less than half the cost of a new toilet and tank. Think about it...
I agree with Peg - there's got to be something wrong with the head when in the "Dry" flush posiiton. There is a vacuum breaker built into the head that allows the top half of the pump cyclinder to vent to atmosphere, to stop the resistance when pumping in the "dry flush" position. It isn't working. As far as a 9 gallon holding tank, I also agree with Peggie, it's going to have to be pumped out almost daily, if you spend any time at all on the boat. A permanently-installed Porta-Potty (or a SeaLand Marine Traveler - if you have the room for it) might be a better way to go.
Thanks for the inputs
I ended up taking the pump apart - a good lesson in how the thing works - and it seems that there must be something wrong in the "dry" mode. When I push down on the handle, it feels like I'm creating a vacuum in the top chamber (where the intake water comes in and goes out to the toilet). The handle almost wants to pop right back up. I wonder if that valve flap gasket assembly is in backwards or something. Maybe I'll mess around with it, or not. It seems like it should bring air in from the toilet rim, with the spring in the valve allowing it to enter the top chamber. Maybe I'll remove the pump-to-toilet hose and see if it is sucking air in as I pump down. As for the other option - my wife vetoed the porta-potty. We have a pumpout at our marina and don't plan to do any 2-night trips (at least while the kids are little). You both make a good case, though! Thanks again! I have learned a lot! There's nothing like help from friends and a little "hands on" experience! David
I ended up taking the pump apart - a good lesson in how the thing works - and it seems that there must be something wrong in the "dry" mode. When I push down on the handle, it feels like I'm creating a vacuum in the top chamber (where the intake water comes in and goes out to the toilet). The handle almost wants to pop right back up. I wonder if that valve flap gasket assembly is in backwards or something. Maybe I'll mess around with it, or not. It seems like it should bring air in from the toilet rim, with the spring in the valve allowing it to enter the top chamber. Maybe I'll remove the pump-to-toilet hose and see if it is sucking air in as I pump down. As for the other option - my wife vetoed the porta-potty. We have a pumpout at our marina and don't plan to do any 2-night trips (at least while the kids are little). You both make a good case, though! Thanks again! I have learned a lot! There's nothing like help from friends and a little "hands on" experience! David
Replace the toilet!
You've already put more time and effort into trying to salvage a 30 year old toilet that wasn't the best quality to begin with than it would have taken you to swap it out for a new one. Rebuilding it won't solve your problem...the part you need isn't in the kit--and prob'ly isn't even available any more. Before you put ANY money it, call W-C tech support: 401 846-1679
You've already put more time and effort into trying to salvage a 30 year old toilet that wasn't the best quality to begin with than it would have taken you to swap it out for a new one. Rebuilding it won't solve your problem...the part you need isn't in the kit--and prob'ly isn't even available any more. Before you put ANY money it, call W-C tech support: 401 846-1679
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