I was just on the Practical Sailor Web site (which if you are a paying subscriber you are able to see the articles and magazine online before its mailed to you). Well there is an interesting article Comparing 3 "entry-level" cruising boats- the Beneteau 311, Catalina 310, and Hunter 326.....(BTW, they all did about the same, just "different strokes for different folks") I was particularly intrigued by the articles comments on what the 3 Manufacturers had to say about their clientele. I have to admit I think they are do know their markets. Obviously it is an over simplification and somewhat of a stereotype . And I would think that *most* of the sailors on this forum wouldn't so easily fall into these categories, just from the nature of being on this web site!....But........ Quote directly from the article........ "An interesting aside: We learned in talking with builders and dealers that they know their market, including personality types, and the likely use of the boats. By their accounts, Catalina owners are more likely to sail, and work on, their boats; Hunter owners are more likely to use the boats for dockside entertainment, and reach for a credit card when repairs are to be made. Beneteau owners seem to fall somewhere in between. "
- Status
That would make my H37C. . . .
a Catalina I guess. I only sail and work on her, mostly work. But that's a lot of "bs" anyway. My marina is 60% or more Hunter and we sail!
a Catalina I guess. I only sail and work on her, mostly work. But that's a lot of "bs" anyway. My marina is 60% or more Hunter and we sail!
doesn't work for me
When, I am not sailing it is work time. I love working on my hunter 28.
When, I am not sailing it is work time. I love working on my hunter 28.
Attachments
Comparing....
I don't think so... In the winter, while she rests in my front field, I work on her almost every weekend, but in the summer. Ten minutes after I reach the pier, I'm in the Bay sailing. The pier is but temporary storage.
I don't think so... In the winter, while she rests in my front field, I work on her almost every weekend, but in the summer. Ten minutes after I reach the pier, I'm in the Bay sailing. The pier is but temporary storage.
hunter owner comparing
In that the Hunter boats have expanded the cockpit it is a better choice for the person interested in dockside entertaining, No? I sail with 2 labs and the extra space in the coaming to coaming design sure increases enjoyment sailing, anchored or at a slip . one of the reasons i chose hunter was the walkthru transom design.... love these dogs
In that the Hunter boats have expanded the cockpit it is a better choice for the person interested in dockside entertaining, No? I sail with 2 labs and the extra space in the coaming to coaming design sure increases enjoyment sailing, anchored or at a slip . one of the reasons i chose hunter was the walkthru transom design.... love these dogs
I'm Really Confused
Every weekend as I pull out of my slip to sail my Hunter I go past a whole row of Catalinas that I haven't seen on the water in at least a year....no one works on 'em either, My neighbors have a Beneteau that hasn't been out in months but they're on it entertaining every weekend... Now I do admit to paying someone else to work on my boat but I pay cash...never use credit cards. So much for market research.... Or maybe I bought the wrong boat.
Every weekend as I pull out of my slip to sail my Hunter I go past a whole row of Catalinas that I haven't seen on the water in at least a year....no one works on 'em either, My neighbors have a Beneteau that hasn't been out in months but they're on it entertaining every weekend... Now I do admit to paying someone else to work on my boat but I pay cash...never use credit cards. So much for market research.... Or maybe I bought the wrong boat.
Hum I guess the Catalina's I see...
welded to the pier and slowly becoming artifical reefs are an aberration! I do pull out the credit card for jobs which are beyond my comfort zone. I admit I am not mechanically inclined and as the man said, "A man's got to know his limitations." Still I keep busy keeping the boat in good shape and personally fixing those things which are within my comfort zone (which is also slowly increasing BTW). I have a J boat next to me, never seen the owner. I have a Beneteau several slips down from me, never seen the owner. Several Catalina's fall within the same category. The original post generizations may apply to some of the newer boat sales but not the older boats.
welded to the pier and slowly becoming artifical reefs are an aberration! I do pull out the credit card for jobs which are beyond my comfort zone. I admit I am not mechanically inclined and as the man said, "A man's got to know his limitations." Still I keep busy keeping the boat in good shape and personally fixing those things which are within my comfort zone (which is also slowly increasing BTW). I have a J boat next to me, never seen the owner. I have a Beneteau several slips down from me, never seen the owner. Several Catalina's fall within the same category. The original post generizations may apply to some of the newer boat sales but not the older boats.
Does that mean I own a Catalina 23?
It sure looks like a Hunter 23 though! About the only entertaining I do dockside is when I accidentally drop something overboard. Everybody else on the dock thinks my swearing is pretty funny. OK, I will admit that PS was correct in one regard. Yes, as a Hunter owner I do reach for my credit card when it's time for repairs... how else will I pay for the truckloads of DIY materials I buy at West Marine and BoatUS? Peter H23 "Raven"
It sure looks like a Hunter 23 though! About the only entertaining I do dockside is when I accidentally drop something overboard. Everybody else on the dock thinks my swearing is pretty funny. OK, I will admit that PS was correct in one regard. Yes, as a Hunter owner I do reach for my credit card when it's time for repairs... how else will I pay for the truckloads of DIY materials I buy at West Marine and BoatUS? Peter H23 "Raven"
Site surveys far more indicative
I don't have time to go date and analyze the data, but the new feature showing responses by boat owner categories is a much better indicator of owner behavior than dealers talking to a magazine! Recent "quizes" covered racing, cruising, projects, etc. Responses from our different communities have been more similar than different, but I remember some trends if anyone is really interested. David Lady Lillie
I don't have time to go date and analyze the data, but the new feature showing responses by boat owner categories is a much better indicator of owner behavior than dealers talking to a magazine! Recent "quizes" covered racing, cruising, projects, etc. Responses from our different communities have been more similar than different, but I remember some trends if anyone is really interested. David Lady Lillie
Generalizations
They're just that. Statistically, inaccurate in almost as many cases as they are accurate. I agree that the quiz results are probably the best measure of similarities and differences. We do see some trends in the various chandleries: I'd say, in _general_, Hunter owners include more first-time boat owners, Catalina owners include a greater proportion of do-it-yourselfers, and Beneteau owners include more folks who will 'hire it out' -- convenience is a greater concern. But like I said, for every owner who fits that profile there's another who doesn't so take all that for what its worth... nothin'.
They're just that. Statistically, inaccurate in almost as many cases as they are accurate. I agree that the quiz results are probably the best measure of similarities and differences. We do see some trends in the various chandleries: I'd say, in _general_, Hunter owners include more first-time boat owners, Catalina owners include a greater proportion of do-it-yourselfers, and Beneteau owners include more folks who will 'hire it out' -- convenience is a greater concern. But like I said, for every owner who fits that profile there's another who doesn't so take all that for what its worth... nothin'.
Generalizations
Guys, Lets face it, the kind of people on this list are the type of people that user their boats! We are, no matter what brand you own, the type of people who really enjoy sailing. That's why we own the boats, and that’s why we're here on this list. There are plenty of people in marinas all over that just entertain on the boats. In general I find that power boaters fall into this category more often the sail boaters. In the marina where my slip is, I don't see any difference in the way Hunter, Beneteau, Catalina, O'Day, Irwin or any other sailboat owners user their boats. We all are out every weekend. The only sailboat in our marina that never moves is a 64' Hinckley! The paid crew sits around all day polishing and primping, but the boat never moves all summer. Then it goes back to BVI for the winter... A great job if you can get it.... Regards, Chris
Guys, Lets face it, the kind of people on this list are the type of people that user their boats! We are, no matter what brand you own, the type of people who really enjoy sailing. That's why we own the boats, and that’s why we're here on this list. There are plenty of people in marinas all over that just entertain on the boats. In general I find that power boaters fall into this category more often the sail boaters. In the marina where my slip is, I don't see any difference in the way Hunter, Beneteau, Catalina, O'Day, Irwin or any other sailboat owners user their boats. We all are out every weekend. The only sailboat in our marina that never moves is a 64' Hinckley! The paid crew sits around all day polishing and primping, but the boat never moves all summer. Then it goes back to BVI for the winter... A great job if you can get it.... Regards, Chris
Damn, I better buy a McGregor and invite the PS
crew to lunch so I can be in the same crowd with them. Ray S/V Speedy
crew to lunch so I can be in the same crowd with them. Ray S/V Speedy
Read the Quote
If you read the article (or the quote in the original post) you'll see that the comments about the owners comes from the manufacturers, not Practical Sailor. These are the perceptions of the manufacturers, and probably come from a variety of input. BTW, My boat, a C310 was used (examined, tested) for this article. The Beneteau tested is a dock mate in my marina (nice guy even if he does own a Beneteau). I thought the article had a good balance between too many details or too many generalizations. I did email the author about some minor errors that appeared in the article concerning the C310. The reason I got involved with this article was due to my responses to a questionnaire that appeared on Catalinaowners.com about a year ago.
If you read the article (or the quote in the original post) you'll see that the comments about the owners comes from the manufacturers, not Practical Sailor. These are the perceptions of the manufacturers, and probably come from a variety of input. BTW, My boat, a C310 was used (examined, tested) for this article. The Beneteau tested is a dock mate in my marina (nice guy even if he does own a Beneteau). I thought the article had a good balance between too many details or too many generalizations. I did email the author about some minor errors that appeared in the article concerning the C310. The reason I got involved with this article was due to my responses to a questionnaire that appeared on Catalinaowners.com about a year ago.
PS Comparing
Well, now; After owning 2 Catalinas (22's), 1 Beneteau (30E) and 1 Hunter (380) over the past 25 years, guess I simply do not fit the PS findings. Loved to work on all of them - to the expanding limitations of my ability; Entertained freely on all 4 while anchored, under way and at the dock. Must admit, tho, the Catalina DEMANDED more attention; the BENETEAU was not so condusive to moving around the cockpit; the HUNTER is simply a dream, making few demands and loves happy revelers roaming around. This, of course, is just one man's opinion/experience. OH, yes, it seems to me that we who use this forum might just not be "typical" to measure personality types etc. etc.; so we really might be a bit forgiving to the observations of builders and dealers.
Well, now; After owning 2 Catalinas (22's), 1 Beneteau (30E) and 1 Hunter (380) over the past 25 years, guess I simply do not fit the PS findings. Loved to work on all of them - to the expanding limitations of my ability; Entertained freely on all 4 while anchored, under way and at the dock. Must admit, tho, the Catalina DEMANDED more attention; the BENETEAU was not so condusive to moving around the cockpit; the HUNTER is simply a dream, making few demands and loves happy revelers roaming around. This, of course, is just one man's opinion/experience. OH, yes, it seems to me that we who use this forum might just not be "typical" to measure personality types etc. etc.; so we really might be a bit forgiving to the observations of builders and dealers.
stats dont lie
people do . now that said , what ive noticed (and i do this for a living)is that most folks (and its not your fault) are not that well versed in statistical analysis. as a result people will invariably take a population fact and then attribute that fact to an individual event. no one argues that the house has an advantage at the casino, or that lottery numbers all have the same sample probability on the first draw , or that driving your car is more hazardous to you health than sailing your boat. of course we can all come up with an example which disputes a population based assumption. however we all use population assumptions because they are accurate when used for population decisions.(most business is about population decisions we want to sell to the most people) most of us dont go to kmart for bottom paint, we gravitate to boat brands because... and we all know that jet skiers are terrible bunch who simply run around knowing how irritating they are and to make our sailing lifestyle miserable for a half an hour. well no one seems to have a adverse reaction to the latter. did we. well it proves my point. stats are only wrong when we dont like the out come on a personal level. but if you were selling or buying, things change real fast. if you sold your house you would want what similar houses in your area bring for a price. if you are at a restaurant you want the same portion size as the next table and if your coworkers all got a raise ..... my point is use stats accurately and for the purpose they are intended and a whole new world will open up , btw for the stat to be meaningfull the test parameters need to accompany the stat. but thats another post. best of luck to us all. mg
people do . now that said , what ive noticed (and i do this for a living)is that most folks (and its not your fault) are not that well versed in statistical analysis. as a result people will invariably take a population fact and then attribute that fact to an individual event. no one argues that the house has an advantage at the casino, or that lottery numbers all have the same sample probability on the first draw , or that driving your car is more hazardous to you health than sailing your boat. of course we can all come up with an example which disputes a population based assumption. however we all use population assumptions because they are accurate when used for population decisions.(most business is about population decisions we want to sell to the most people) most of us dont go to kmart for bottom paint, we gravitate to boat brands because... and we all know that jet skiers are terrible bunch who simply run around knowing how irritating they are and to make our sailing lifestyle miserable for a half an hour. well no one seems to have a adverse reaction to the latter. did we. well it proves my point. stats are only wrong when we dont like the out come on a personal level. but if you were selling or buying, things change real fast. if you sold your house you would want what similar houses in your area bring for a price. if you are at a restaurant you want the same portion size as the next table and if your coworkers all got a raise ..... my point is use stats accurately and for the purpose they are intended and a whole new world will open up , btw for the stat to be meaningfull the test parameters need to accompany the stat. but thats another post. best of luck to us all. mg
Nice rant, MG, but what does it have to do
with the price of beans in Chile?? According to the original poster, the PS article said: "We learned in talking with builders and dealers that they know their market, including personality types, and the likely use of the boats." Even in my wildest imagination I would not dare to call that "statistics". At best, it might qualify as "annecdotal opinions". The sources of these opinions do not appear to have been revealed by PS other than in the vaguest of possible terms. My translation of the PS statement into plain English reads as follows: "We were planning to poll builders and dealers about their knowledge of their respective markets but found them amazingly shy about revealing their true marketbase. So we decided to ask David Letterman's mother, instead". See yah out there! Flying Dutchman
with the price of beans in Chile?? According to the original poster, the PS article said: "We learned in talking with builders and dealers that they know their market, including personality types, and the likely use of the boats." Even in my wildest imagination I would not dare to call that "statistics". At best, it might qualify as "annecdotal opinions". The sources of these opinions do not appear to have been revealed by PS other than in the vaguest of possible terms. My translation of the PS statement into plain English reads as follows: "We were planning to poll builders and dealers about their knowledge of their respective markets but found them amazingly shy about revealing their true marketbase. So we decided to ask David Letterman's mother, instead". See yah out there! Flying Dutchman
STATS NEVER, I MEAN NEVER LIE
True stats never lie, they are just in the eyes of the beholder....I know that a majority of persons voted for Bill Clinton, those were the stats, yet, I can't find a person that says they did........Hummmm?? All the best.Denny Paul S/V Mostly There
True stats never lie, they are just in the eyes of the beholder....I know that a majority of persons voted for Bill Clinton, those were the stats, yet, I can't find a person that says they did........Hummmm?? All the best.Denny Paul S/V Mostly There
sorry henk
it just seemed that the folks writing in the thread took exception to the quote provided. i just wanted to clarify that there was no intent anywhere to suggest that any use of the boat is unwarrented or unacceptable except in the eyes of our own bigotry. (as in maybe we're a bit too sensitive or not sensitive enough ) i also have my own reservations about the good folks at ps and dropped my subscription years ago. on a lighter note, did you drop the idea of debating the merits of the lighter fin keel design for offshore sailing or have i missed the thread? i was looking forward to the info and your insight. thanks all.mg
it just seemed that the folks writing in the thread took exception to the quote provided. i just wanted to clarify that there was no intent anywhere to suggest that any use of the boat is unwarrented or unacceptable except in the eyes of our own bigotry. (as in maybe we're a bit too sensitive or not sensitive enough ) i also have my own reservations about the good folks at ps and dropped my subscription years ago. on a lighter note, did you drop the idea of debating the merits of the lighter fin keel design for offshore sailing or have i missed the thread? i was looking forward to the info and your insight. thanks all.mg
Stats on our site say...
Hunter, Catalina, and Beneteau owners are remarkably similar. One group might have 5 percent more owners who race, or 7 percent less who like projects, but the trends are quite similar across our recent quizes. According to my memory, Catalinas and Hunters are most alike. For instance the current survey reveals that Hunter and Catalina owners have almost identical distribution of responses about single handing, while 4 percent more Beneteau owners have never single handed, and about 6 percent more like to single hand for the feeling of intimacy with their boat. Small but real differences with over 900 responses. Phil ought to think of selling this good stuff so that our builders and mags would know what they are talking about. (Taking payment in cash and a plug for the site of course.) David Lady Lillie
Hunter, Catalina, and Beneteau owners are remarkably similar. One group might have 5 percent more owners who race, or 7 percent less who like projects, but the trends are quite similar across our recent quizes. According to my memory, Catalinas and Hunters are most alike. For instance the current survey reveals that Hunter and Catalina owners have almost identical distribution of responses about single handing, while 4 percent more Beneteau owners have never single handed, and about 6 percent more like to single hand for the feeling of intimacy with their boat. Small but real differences with over 900 responses. Phil ought to think of selling this good stuff so that our builders and mags would know what they are talking about. (Taking payment in cash and a plug for the site of course.) David Lady Lillie
- Status