Didn't seem too bad for my Yanmar. But maybe I;m getting desensitized to the cost of marine parts.
Pros and Cons of Diesel
- Thread starter rgranger
- Start date
Back in the day, this was a pretty common practice, it gives inboard performance with an outboard and boats look nicer without the outboard hanging off the transom. It does have some limitations as not all out boards could be raised and a transom mounted rudder was not practical.On the issue of the prop coming out of the water and swamping.
I once owned a Coronado 25. The Coronado 25 had a false transom (motor well). That really seems to me to be the best set of compromises. The fuel tank was stored in the motor well also, so... no fumes in the boat... when the motor was in the down position, the prop was well enough forward that it would have been really hard to bring it out of the water... and the motor was protected from following seas.
I just grabbed this image off of the internet so it is not my boat, but you can see the protected motor well here...
What @Skipper said really rings true for me. I pull my Honda 9.9, for the winter....bring it home, change the lower unit oil, upper unit oil and plugs and put it in my basement till spring. In the spring I put it back on and go sailing.
I get the "whatever floats your boat" philosophy and I do appreciate the pros of diesel you all have put forth.. but if boat designers intentionally built the boats with an outboard in mind, I would find that a better set of compromises for the mid-sized cruising boat.
I can imagine a walk off transom with an engine well that extends upwards and doubles as the helmsman's chair at wheel. With a power lift & tilt mount, you could raise the engine up into the well and tilt it out of the water. Easy peasy.
In what was likely a cost reduction move, as well as for design considerations, the rudder and outboard moved to the transom. It is a lot cheaper to stick a bracket with 4 bolts on the transom and hang a rudder on a couple of gudgeons than building a motor well and installing the rudder tube, bearings, etc for a traditional through hull rudder.
Likewise any system that involves a engine well, power lifts and access for a larger boat is going to be a more expensive option than a traditional engine installation. That and the advantages of an inboard will be lost.
And really, how difficult is to change the oil and filters once a year? Especially when the difficulties of removing a 25hp outboard off the boat to transport to a service facility. The new 4 strokes are going to require oil changes, lower unit lube changes, spark plugs, etc. Some maintenance items, like changing a water pump impeller is easier on my Yanmar than on my 4hp Merc outboard.
Gas engines don't explode--if one maintains them. Same with propane, which is every bit as volatile as gas. Yet, so many of those who complain about gas engines on boats don't bat any eye about propane on their boats.
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Looked at a boat that had sat in the desert for 15 years and wanted to make sure the engine at least turned over. So for fun grabbed a 1 gallon can of fuel, battery from the truck, put a new piece of hose between the engine and gallon of fuel, pulled the impeller, ran a water hose to the engine, primed the fuel pump. Hit the starter and it purred just like an Atomic 4 is supposed to with no rattling like a stink pot.After being shut down for 4 months... My Diesel started right up on Sunday...
I suspect I share the opinion of many here that propane scares me more than any other aspect of boating. As you implied, maintenance is crucial but 'stuff' happens regardless. Leaks on boats are ubiquitous. And for that reason, gas engines definitely can and do sometimes explode.
Given the horror stories we read here seemingly every day about leaks, improper electrical work and lack of maintenance, I'm surprised explosions are not more frequent.
And our oven runs on CNG. A pain to obtain but arguably safer than either gasoline or propane.
I have a diesel and grant that it is safer overall than a gasoline engine, and am happy I have it. I also have a non-pressurized Origo-type stove, which is not only safer than propane but also safer than CNG. I'm happy with that as well. My only point is that so many people (not you) who complain so loudly about the dangers of gasoline engines exploding have no problem with using propane, and that makes no sense to me since it's every bit as dangerous. Furthermore, there is little to fear with any of these systems--gasoline, propane, CNG, etc.--if the installations are to code and properly maintained. The idea that a person with an older boat that has a well-maintained A4 ought to abandon it immediately for a diesel because he or she is in imminent danger of getting blown to smithereens is just nonsense.
And even better with a 6 into 1 header. It was an unmistakable sound that could be readily recognized for a couple of miles.
BTW: CNG is less flammable than gas.
But my vote is for neither one. I prefer electric. You can't beat it for reliability or control. Maximum torque for the broadest range of speed.
Auxiliary sailboat is what I have. Auxiliary the operative word. When I here of outboards coming out of the water and such I wonder what the great writers of sailing books over my lifetime would think. If there is enough wind going on to get an outboard out of the water there is enough wind to use the main power "The Sail". Maybe when it comes to sail vs engine we are in too big of a hurry to get somewhere.
Many books on smaller (less than 30') sailboats prefer the outboard option. At some point in the length equation it becomes easier IMO to install an inboard. There is no doubt that larger boats can run with outboards if they are designed for it. I've seen several catamarans close to 40' with a couple of outboards.
The electric option is perfect for people who want to sail mostly and need power to get home in a few miles or in and out of the slip. I'm sure there are many here, along with some of the great authors, who sailed for years in small boats with no engine. I am building a sculling oar this summer just to have it.
My point, everyone gets what they think they need to satisfy their particular situation. I don't need a diesel in my Ski Nautique or a gas engine in my truck but for my Aux Sailboat ....
Many books on smaller (less than 30') sailboats prefer the outboard option. At some point in the length equation it becomes easier IMO to install an inboard. There is no doubt that larger boats can run with outboards if they are designed for it. I've seen several catamarans close to 40' with a couple of outboards.
The electric option is perfect for people who want to sail mostly and need power to get home in a few miles or in and out of the slip. I'm sure there are many here, along with some of the great authors, who sailed for years in small boats with no engine. I am building a sculling oar this summer just to have it.
My point, everyone gets what they think they need to satisfy their particular situation. I don't need a diesel in my Ski Nautique or a gas engine in my truck but for my Aux Sailboat ....
I've been following this thread. And finally noticed that someone referenced the Atomic 4 gasoline inboard mounted engine. Here is a link to some detail about it. http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/atomic4manual/good_old_A4.htm
Many many boats in the 1960's through mid 1970's were fitted with this engine.
Until the benefits and preference for diesel became the norm.
In 2007, when I was looking for a my first sailboat (used), I encountered a few Atomic 4 powered offerings. I noticed as soon at the companionway hatch boards were opened. Smell of gasoline. No need to see anything further.
Over the years, I have met dock neighbors who bought older boats with the Atomic 4. The distributor, point dwell, timing, and carburetor needed constant attention. Just like the cars we owned back in the 50's, 60's and 70's. And yes always a lingering odor of gasoline down below in the accommodation cabin.
I am sure that today, a modern design gasoline engine could be an acceptable alternative to diesel. The gas version would have electronic ignition, and computer controlled everything. Just like our cars have. But now with several decades of satisfied diesel power owners, the change-over to gasoline would be a challenge.
I think that many who want to ditch their inboard diesels these days are now instead considering electric? Certainly not gasoline.
Many many boats in the 1960's through mid 1970's were fitted with this engine.
Until the benefits and preference for diesel became the norm.
In 2007, when I was looking for a my first sailboat (used), I encountered a few Atomic 4 powered offerings. I noticed as soon at the companionway hatch boards were opened. Smell of gasoline. No need to see anything further.
Over the years, I have met dock neighbors who bought older boats with the Atomic 4. The distributor, point dwell, timing, and carburetor needed constant attention. Just like the cars we owned back in the 50's, 60's and 70's. And yes always a lingering odor of gasoline down below in the accommodation cabin.
I am sure that today, a modern design gasoline engine could be an acceptable alternative to diesel. The gas version would have electronic ignition, and computer controlled everything. Just like our cars have. But now with several decades of satisfied diesel power owners, the change-over to gasoline would be a challenge.
I think that many who want to ditch their inboard diesels these days are now instead considering electric? Certainly not gasoline.
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There is no necessity for an A4 installation to smell of gas. I have a good friend with an immaculately maintained A4 and there is no smell at all on his boat. None. On the other hand, there are plenty of boats where the stench of diesel has impregnated the cushions, not to mention the the smelly, black, acrid exhaust for one not running well. It all comes down to proper maintenance.
Regarding gasoline: Let us not forget that in many places gasoline now contains ethanol. Ethanol makes gasoline unstable for storage over the off season. Ethanol eats rubber fuel lines. Proponents of ethanol are not satisfied with 10% mixes and are advocating for much more. Unfortunately for those of us in the real world, sooner or later ethanol will be mandated for diesel as well, but not just yet.
While in some ways, I began to agree with you, I quickly remembered being out in 50+ winds. My boat was not capable of sailing in those winds, regardless of the skipper. I tried to put up reduced sail, but just having cloth up was too much drag to provide any forward motion. Not only did the sail have drag, but the boat its self had too much drag. No way to sail up wind.
Is this a trick question? Do your homework and you will see why an inboard diesel engine is the engine of choice foe a sea going vessel.
there is an electronic ignition option for A4s that eliminates the above mentioned problems (just saying...).
Btw. I have a diesel (Perkins M20) and would not change it.
Marek, I'd still trade you! Get the admiral on ours and let the little Weterbeke show her what a racket really sounds like! ha ha.
"Do your homework". That's ironic.... since I was very clear in the o.p that I was asking about the pros and cons of COASTEL CRUISERS and specifically excluded blue water vessels.