Proper etiquette?

[Broke sailor SV Marcell]

I went for a "sail" yesterday and as I was motoring out of the Marina a fisherman was laying out some kind of trap, two clorox bottles tied together with what looked like 1/2 inch three strand line. It went all the way across the channel leaving the Marina. I had no choice but go over it right in the middle hoping I would not snag it (it was low tide). Is it proper etiquette for fishermen to be laying out traps in the middle of nav. channels? What is the proper boater etiquette?

 

[Jim Seamans]

Those are bottom lines

In reality they should not place their traps in the channel but they do. I've seen what you describe, the bottles hold one end of the line which lays on the bottom trying to entice crabs. They will come back and slowly bring the line up hoping a crab is to busy eating to notice they are about to be snagged.Broke Sailor, I forgot to email you this week. Ron has new batteries for sale. If you need some go over and talk to him. Be down later today.Jim

 

[Warren Milberg]

As a long time Ches Bay sailor

I have always believed in, and supported, the idea that the Bay is for everyone, be they recreational or commercial users. For the most part, this concept of a shared estuary seems to work well, albeit imperfectly. Commercial waterman on the Bay have a hard life, and one that gets harder each year as the "crops" produced by the Bay decline and they over-fish. My personal pet peeve happens to be "pound nets" that are often a mile or more offshore and can exceed 200 yards in length. They are not marked on all charts and are mostly poorly lit, or not lit at all. We got entangled in an invisible one during the overnight Governor's Cup race a few years ago and it was a 3 hour job, in the water, to cut our way free.The Bay crab population is declining at an alarming rate and this is forcing crabbers to drop their pots in lots of places that they are not allowed, like navigation lanes and "crab free zones." I have stopped sailing at night due to the prevalence of crab lines everywhere. While I try to be tolerant of crabbers and have some good relations with the local ones, I sometimes discuss this placing of crab lines in the channels with them directly. They tend to "police their own," at least in the Herring Bay area. If this were to continue, I would contact the Maryland Department of Natural Resources (DNR) police and file a report with them.

 

[sailaway78]

Common Problem

This seems to be a common problem in lots of areas. On Lake Ponchatrain, the crap traps are everywhere. It seems to make no difference to the crabbers. I regularly see them strung across marked channels. The entrance to the sub division I live in, and is also the entrance to a major marina, has crab traps scattered in it. I managed to pick one up one time a couple of years ago, and ended up having to pull the boat to fix the strut which pulled one mounting bolt through the hull, and the cutlass bearing which was ruined. Like Warren, I don't sail the lake at night, although I would love to. But the crap traps just make it too much of a risk. There are some of them painted black, and some dark blue ones, which are difficult to see in the daylight, and impossible to see at night.

 

[Benny17441]

I believe that in the scheeme of things a person

working the sea may have a more noble function than a recreational boater and as such I'll ignore the rules of the road and yield my rights if doing so will help them out in any way. They may or may not be appreciative of what I'm doing but I do it for myself. It makes me feel good that my pursuit of pleasure and relaxation did not affect a person earning a hard living. I just look at it like he is catching the next crab or going out to fish the next grouper I'm going to eat.I'm not sure if privately set and maintained channels fall within the restrictions where the setting of traps may not be allowed. From the fisherman's point of view it may seem someone decided to mark a channel in his fishing waters. I have seen traps that have drifted into a navigable channel but never seen an actual crabber setting them there. I think they are smarter than to risk loosing a trap where they would have no recourse should they be able to identify the snagger or taker. I have spoken to a few crabbers and they get as irritated with boaters as we may with them. They are mostly very knowledgeable about the laws and regulations governing their trade and will protect their rights in a more forceful fashion than most as it is their families livelihood on the line.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Benny

We differ greatly in attitude toward most commercial fisherman and crabbers. I dont see it as a noble function, its a trade. As a matter fact, in the Ms. and La. area in the Gulf, its dominated by drunks and crackheads. Its not like the old days. They set their traps where ever they feel like because in this area, the CG will not do anything about it. The CG attitude is generally, "well, not that many people use the channel". My attitude about the CG in La. is also not very good. But thats a different story. I spend most of my time on the water, so I am not talking about occasional moments. Are crabbers allowed to put nets in a channel? NO !!!!Are shrimpers allowed to put downriggers down in a channel? NO!!!!That is considered impeding the flow of traffic. Do they do it? YES !!!!! Regularly.Their attitude here is that they have been shrimping the Gulf for generations and they own it. If you dont believe me, ask them.Tony B

 

[Mike D]

Trot line

Broke Sailor,I believe what you are seeing is a trot line. A line with an anchor on both ends then up to a buoy on both ends and then a line to a small length of chain on both ends with several hundred feet of baited line in between.Since they are long lines the angle of the linw from the buoy to the bottom can be shallow but keepig your distance will allow a sailboat to pass over the baited line sitting on the bottom.They are allowed to crab and usually only crab in the rivers and creeks. Crab pots, I think , are limited to the bay only in Maryland and you will see "float free zones" designated at entrances to busy areas off of the bay. The buoys are safety buoys and are identical to the 6 mph buoys except they usually say "float free zone" at entrances and "clam line", etc. at areas on the fringes of the bay where they are not permitted to go inside with crab pots.The ones I do not understand are the pots in the bay that are hooked together somehow on a line and they have matching flags (sometimes) apart from one another. Tangling up with one of these seems like it could be an all day job, not to mention damage to your shaft or prop if you are motoring. I try to keep my distance.Mike D

 

[Mike D]

A ps about fisherman and right of way

Just a ps for Benny and Sailtonyb. I remember reading in Chapmans that even sailboats are the burdened vessel when approaching a fisherman engaged in fishing activities.I think that may apply to commercial and even recreational. Has anyone else seen these planner boxes they use now that spread way out to the sides behind their boats? I found myself avoiding some fisherman only to see this brightly colored (thank goodness for small favors) think almost right next to us. It was way out to each side of the boat and quit alarming at first. It really looked like a remote control marine device or something. Apparantly it was held out to the sides of the boat with a rudder or fin set at an angle away from the boat, about 50 feet or so behind and I think they maybe tie the two together. As they troll they spread wayyyyyyy out side to side.Mike D

 

[Capt. Ed]

fishin

First a recreational fisherman trolling lure /or outriggers is a POWERBOAT by definition and has no rights . If I can avoid him I will. A commercial fisherman traveling to and from his work is a POWERBOAT , when engaged in fishing ,ie setting nets trawls ect. he is a fisherman . Do they know this ? I doubt it ,thus rule two /avoid at all cost . On the north shore of Boston we have many lobster men . They use to lay the traps every where ,now with the high cost of gear replacement they are much more selective . Recently one set traps off a gas dock . Gone ,a powerboat with cutters took care of that . Cost ,big bucks and he won't be back .

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

not sure what Capt Ed is trying to say

but a sailboat is a burdened vessel when encountering any vessel engaged in fishing not that is relates to the original question.Seems to me what is lacking here is common sense if a fisherman places his trap in a channel.

 

[sailaway78]

Benny

TonyB is absolutely correct. The channel going out of the east end of Lake Ponchatrain is the only way in and out of this area, unless you are a shallow draft vessel. The only other way out is to go into New Orleans, which adds a day to a trip out of here, not to mention the hassles with all the bridges. It is well marked from the I 10 bridge, to the Rigoles. The bridges are 65'. The last time I was through there, couple of weeks ago, there was a string of crab traps right down the channel. These guys think they own the water, and if you don't like it, the hell with you. It is virtually impossible to sail anywhere on the Lake at night. I do not have a problem with these guys making a living, and I know they work hard at it. But they do not have the right to spoil it for everyone else, they do not have the right to impede a channel like they do, and no one seems willing to do a damn thing about it.

 

[Jadedcrew]

Don

Substantiate your statements! A vessel engaged in fishing only applies to commercial fishing vessels.

 

[Maine Sail]

Guys chill..

The COLREGS DEFINITION of "vessel engaged in fishing" is quite clear??? Here it is!"(d) The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manageability."A center console trolling 10lb mono for bluefish is clearly not restricted in maneuverability...The key words in this definition are "engaged in" meaning at the moment they are currently encumbered by gear and can't move. If the vessel is not encumbered by gear, at the moment, and CAN maneuver they DO NOT meet the definition of "vessel engaged in fishing"... P.S. The COLREGS make NO mention or use of the term commercial vessel and make very clear use of the word "ANY". This "ANY VESSEL" must however meet the criteria for restricted maneuverability! While not impossible, it's very rare and would be highly unlikely, to see a recreational fisherman meet the definition of restricted maneuverability. By definition it could happen with a recreational boater and the wording is clear not to segment out commercial from recreational..Guys the COLREGS wording is very easy to copy and paste and it can eliminate misinterpretation..

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Mike

I assume you have reviewed the regs and would therefore ask you to do the same (substantiate)...

 

[r.w.landau]

How about this question,

Was the guy showing the required colreg lights or shapes?r.w.landaups, I love crab!

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

I work in the Gulf of Mexico

pretty much from Alabama to the Mexican border. Most shrimpers and small comm'l fisherman display the proper lights at night but some display improper lights. Some of the shrimpers arent sure if they are fishing or trawling. Irregardless, the lights get the right message across even if improper. That is when they are engaged in fishing or trawing. When anchored at night, they leave their nav lights and back deck lights on. I dont ever recall a shrimper using just an anchor light. However, I have never seen an inverted cone used in the Gulf of Mex. The only shape I have ever seen is a fishing basket hanging from rigging which is legal to use to signal at anchor. Even this is rare. Generally only very large vessels actually display shapes.And, just because they display a shape, doesnt mean its the correct one.As for radio ettiquette, that's another story.Tony B

 

[elle]

Plain talk did the trick

We had problems on our creek with a waterman from up the Potomac who placed his crab pots wherever he pleased. There are several shoaled areas that deeper draft boats have to maneuver around. The local watermen who fish our creek always take care to keep their pots out of the way.The waterman in question placed one pot directly in front of my dockmate's slip....he could not get his boat out w/o fouling his prop. He happened to catch the waterman a day or so later & politely asked him if the pot could be moved away from the front of the slip.The crabber became quite rude and irritated, saying he had every right to put his pots wherever he pleased and that the pots could not be moved.My neighbor calmly replied that he had no intention of disturbing the pot, but that it would be an unfortunate accident if the line did foul the his prop . If that were to happen he'd have no choice but to dive on the prop & cut the pot away. The crabber would then lose his pot and its bounty. He then calmly walked away.The crabber moved the pot a few minutes later when no one was around.

 

[Bill Roosa]

I have never had a problem with them

I've sailed at night many times and have probably run over 100 crab pot floats. The current score is crab pots 1, bills boat 99 and the one time we did snag a float line we where maneuvering pretty aggressively teaching the ex-wife how the big round shinny wheel looking thing works to steer the boat.Now the pond nets are a true menace to navigation.I'd say give the watermen a break and ignore them. I can't see getting my shorts all wadded up in a bunch just because there are crab pot floats around. I notice that they never seem to be maneuvering and they do give a very accurate current report.

 

[Doug Burton]

Can be quite a hazard

Maryland seems to hold crabbers like racehorse owners, like a heratage thing. Bottom line is if they weren't making a ton a money they wouldn't do it. The other bottom line I see is they all have new F150's crew cabs but always complain they aren't making any money, yeah on paper but cash is another story. No they don't belong in the channel but they don't care and neither should you other than if they foul your prop. Whoever it is that sets all the traps around Bodkin creek should be shot as it is way too many for anyone to navigate around.  Next gripe is off the coast of FL. WTF, we're in 130' of water, in pitch black, and suddenly find ourselves surrounded by lobster pot markers. So we put a lookout with a flashlight on the bow and spend the night anxiously weaving through. I'd love to respect watermen but they do seem to act as though if it's water, it's theirs and theirs alone. Tread gently but it's not anyones turf.

 

[Don12364]

COLREGS

COLREGS also require any vessel engaged in fishing (i.e. hampered by its gear) to display the appropriate shape(s) - as below. If not displayed no special privileges. Trouble is they display their shapes permanently and never take them down. Have they read the COLREGS - I doubt it.UK survey showed average reading age of fishermen to be 12 years!Extract from COLREGS - sub section e) being important:- Rule 26Fishing Vessels (a) A vessel engaged in fishing, whether underway or at anchor, shall exhibit only the lights and shapes prescribed by this rule. (b) A vessel when engaged in trawling, by which is meant the dragging through the water of a dredge net or other apparatus used as a fishing appliance, shall exhibit; (i) two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being green and the lower white, or a shape consisting of two cones with their apexes together in a vertical line one above the other; a vessel of less than 20 meters in length may instead of this shape exhibit a basket; (ii) a masthead light abaft of and higher than the all-round green light; a vessel of less than 50 meters in length shall not be obliged to exhibit such a light but may do so; (iii) when making way through the water, in addition to the lights prescribed in this paragraph, sidelights and a sternlight. (c) A vessel engaged in fishing, other than trawling, shall exhibit: (i) two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red and the lower white, or a shape consisting of two cones with their apexes together in a vertical line one above the other; a vessel of less than 20 meters in length may instead of this shape exhibit a basket; (ii)when there is outlying gear extending more than 150 meters horizontally from the vessel, an all-round white light or a cone apex upwards in the direction of the gear. (iii) when making way through the water, in addition to the lights prescribed in this paragraph, sidelights and a sternlight. (d) A vessel engaged in fishing in close proximity to other vessels engaged in fishing may exhibit the additional signals described in Annex II to these Regulations. (e) A vessel when not engaged in fishing shall not exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in this Rule, but only those prescribed for a vessel of her length.