Our stove (Force 10) works fine for the first teapot. Then it acts like it runs out of gas and won't re-light. After being turned off for a while, it will work fine. I replaced the hose due to a leaky hose. The new hose (with POL fitting) required a reducer to fit the valve. Also the solenoid switch gets very warm after being on for a while. So what's our problem? Is it just a bad solenoid? Does the hose restriction cause the solenoid to overheat and shut off? Any easy solutions or test before I buy one of those cheap (ha) solenoids?
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Quick thoughts..
From what you have said, it sounds like you run it wide open. It quits running because the propane freezes, Propane can only be extracted from the source at a given rate or it freezes up. The solenoid parts get hot due to operating it at full bore. Am I anywhere near close in my guess as to operation? r.w.landau
From what you have said, it sounds like you run it wide open. It quits running because the propane freezes, Propane can only be extracted from the source at a given rate or it freezes up. The solenoid parts get hot due to operating it at full bore. Am I anywhere near close in my guess as to operation? r.w.landau
Force 10 Stove
If you haven't done so already, go to their web site and download the owner's manual for your stove. Lots of info on how to fix a variety of problems. The solenoid is always warm because it's using current to hold itself open. With no current (switched to off), it closes. They can certainly fail, but you should run a few simple tests on the stove before replacing the solenoid. Failing to stay lit is probably the thermocouple on the stove burner, not the solenoid. And the good news is that you can probably fix it without replacing anything. The manual tells how to test and service it in some detail.
If you haven't done so already, go to their web site and download the owner's manual for your stove. Lots of info on how to fix a variety of problems. The solenoid is always warm because it's using current to hold itself open. With no current (switched to off), it closes. They can certainly fail, but you should run a few simple tests on the stove before replacing the solenoid. Failing to stay lit is probably the thermocouple on the stove burner, not the solenoid. And the good news is that you can probably fix it without replacing anything. The manual tells how to test and service it in some detail.
Sounds like a solenoid problem
Andy, Just replaced my solenoid last season. Had the same problem as you do. Thought I was running out of gas. My boat was only a year old and I found out there'd been a bad batch of Trident solenoids. A call to Trident from Beneteau got me a new solenoid. A friend of mine experienced the same problem after two years, again a Trident solenoid. It seems that when they get hot they fail, cool it down it'll work but eventually they fail altogether.I had never heard of solenoids failing like that as I have an 18 year old one on my old boat that still works fine.
Andy, Just replaced my solenoid last season. Had the same problem as you do. Thought I was running out of gas. My boat was only a year old and I found out there'd been a bad batch of Trident solenoids. A call to Trident from Beneteau got me a new solenoid. A friend of mine experienced the same problem after two years, again a Trident solenoid. It seems that when they get hot they fail, cool it down it'll work but eventually they fail altogether.I had never heard of solenoids failing like that as I have an 18 year old one on my old boat that still works fine.
If you can bypass the solenoid
then you can resolve this easily. I presume that this happens on all burners, that would rule out the thermocouple. I have a three burner Force 10 and have run all three burners and the oven without the demand exceeding the supply of propane. Solenoids may get warm but shouldn't get hot. For reference you can't hold 140 degrees for more than about 10 seconds, 120 degrees you can hold but it is uncomfortable. 110 degrees feels like a bad sunburn.
then you can resolve this easily. I presume that this happens on all burners, that would rule out the thermocouple. I have a three burner Force 10 and have run all three burners and the oven without the demand exceeding the supply of propane. Solenoids may get warm but shouldn't get hot. For reference you can't hold 140 degrees for more than about 10 seconds, 120 degrees you can hold but it is uncomfortable. 110 degrees feels like a bad sunburn.
Solenoid
Just cured the same problem on mine. Slide the electromagnet off by removing the clip. You can then unscrew the piece holding the stem, remove the plunger and reassemble. That will bypass the solenoid. After some experimenting, I discovered that the plunger just didn't have room to move anymore. It's like the thing just grew in length. I shaved off about 1/4 of the rubber tip with a razor and it works just fine now. Need to call the Trident and get a replacement plunger.
Just cured the same problem on mine. Slide the electromagnet off by removing the clip. You can then unscrew the piece holding the stem, remove the plunger and reassemble. That will bypass the solenoid. After some experimenting, I discovered that the plunger just didn't have room to move anymore. It's like the thing just grew in length. I shaved off about 1/4 of the rubber tip with a razor and it works just fine now. Need to call the Trident and get a replacement plunger.
Update on solenoid
Just got off the phone with the solenoid manufacturer and was told that the rubber tip on the plunger can indeed swell and make the valve inoperable. The bad news is that there is no repair kit available and they won't sell just the plunger. Good luck with whatever option you try.
Just got off the phone with the solenoid manufacturer and was told that the rubber tip on the plunger can indeed swell and make the valve inoperable. The bad news is that there is no repair kit available and they won't sell just the plunger. Good luck with whatever option you try.
Regulator?
I had a problem like this at home. Changed the requlator and problem went away. Just a thought.
I had a problem like this at home. Changed the requlator and problem went away. Just a thought.
I've never known a solenoid that didn't 'click'.
When you turn it on, it should make a sound. If it clicks, then it reached the end of its stroke and HAS TO be open. If so, and no fuel flows, you have a bad regulator, or you didn't open the tank valve, or YOU'RE OUT OF GAS. All easy checks. And all must be done before suspecting the stove.
When you turn it on, it should make a sound. If it clicks, then it reached the end of its stroke and HAS TO be open. If so, and no fuel flows, you have a bad regulator, or you didn't open the tank valve, or YOU'RE OUT OF GAS. All easy checks. And all must be done before suspecting the stove.
Bypass? Disassemble?
Facrissake, it's only a $90.00 part! Replace it with new. They don't sell these things in pieces because you shouldn't be attempting to rebuild/repair them. They are meant to toss out and buy new. As safe as everyone on these forums claim to be, I'm surprised that anyone would advocate tampering with or bypassing this essential safety device. Cheers, Bob
Facrissake, it's only a $90.00 part! Replace it with new. They don't sell these things in pieces because you shouldn't be attempting to rebuild/repair them. They are meant to toss out and buy new. As safe as everyone on these forums claim to be, I'm surprised that anyone would advocate tampering with or bypassing this essential safety device. Cheers, Bob
For some clarification. I suggested that
bypassing the solenoid would allow you to determine whether or not that was the culprit. No one should bypass safety devises because they have failed. BUT only a fool will replace expensive parts willy-nilly until the problem is solved. So far on this thread we have had suggestions that the solenoid, the thermocouples, the pressure regulator may be bad, the tank may be freezing up. What is the matter with applying a little basic trouble shooting technique.
bypassing the solenoid would allow you to determine whether or not that was the culprit. No one should bypass safety devises because they have failed. BUT only a fool will replace expensive parts willy-nilly until the problem is solved. So far on this thread we have had suggestions that the solenoid, the thermocouples, the pressure regulator may be bad, the tank may be freezing up. What is the matter with applying a little basic trouble shooting technique.
Good thinking everybody
Is it great minds or dangerous minds that think alike? Not the the thermo because when it happens, it happens to both burners and the stove. Freeze-up? Likely, and I thought of that too-I will try the "less than full throttle" heating. Most likely it is a weak, sticky, or just old solenoid. And yes, the thought of a bypass (for testing only!) has crossed my mind. By the way Todd, its not even a $90 item but three reasons to be this way:1) I hate to cut orginal wiring needlessly, 2)there is no "local chandlery so order, wait..reorder:9, and 3) I'm Scotch as they come when it comes my boat money!! (can I borrow YOUR solenoid for a week
Thanks to all and keep the suggestions coming!
Is it great minds or dangerous minds that think alike? Not the the thermo because when it happens, it happens to both burners and the stove. Freeze-up? Likely, and I thought of that too-I will try the "less than full throttle" heating. Most likely it is a weak, sticky, or just old solenoid. And yes, the thought of a bypass (for testing only!) has crossed my mind. By the way Todd, its not even a $90 item but three reasons to be this way:1) I hate to cut orginal wiring needlessly, 2)there is no "local chandlery so order, wait..reorder:9, and 3) I'm Scotch as they come when it comes my boat money!! (can I borrow YOUR solenoid for a week
Thanks to all and keep the suggestions coming!Update with gas
First thing I checked was gas level (Put temp fitting with new disposable gas tank and same story) I got some tech support help from Force 10, they say it is definately the solenoid. Guess I'll get online with West or Defender
First thing I checked was gas level (Put temp fitting with new disposable gas tank and same story) I got some tech support help from Force 10, they say it is definately the solenoid. Guess I'll get online with West or Defender
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