Propane...sinful?

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H

Hermit Scott

What is the deal with propane on boats? Is it illegal, dangerous or just non-conventional? I have seen those little stainless propane grills that hang on the stern rail. That looks like a pretty good idea. I guess the burners in the cabin are alcohol? Can you buy that at walmart? I looked around at walmart to see what was up and all I saw was little bottles of propane in the camp section.
So is the propane kept in the same compartment with the fuel or is it ok to put it in side compartment under the seating in the cockpit?
 
Jan 1, 2008
89
Islander 36 Salem MA
Use care with any fuel

We have used those mini cans of propane with great results . The grills are great to cook on . BUT the cans may and DO leak when not in use . ALWAYS keep the cans outside ,with no chance the vapors could flow into an enclosed space . We use a hanging bag on the rail . As for the larger tanks you must have a vented container and ,again be smart on how you use it . We always close the manual valve ,and burn down any fuel inline when done . Again with any fuel use care and follow instructions on the unit you have . Happy grillin!
 
M

Maine Sail

LP is heavier..

Than air so you need to keep it out of any location where it could settle to the bilge if it leaks. As Ed said those green 1Lb. bottle are notorious for leaking. Keep them above deck so they can escape through a cockpit drain and flow overboard if a leak happens.
 
Aug 31, 2007
296
Catalina 30 Petoskey, Mich.
You have alot of research ahead of you!!

It sounds like you are in for alot of schooling, when it comes to cooking and baking on board. If you have or can get a west marine catalog they are very, very informative on all topics. Gotta love learning something new everyday!!

Dean
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Hermit, I built and installed a propane system

on my boat after considerable reading on the subject. This link is a very good place to start.
http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/18.htm
 
Jun 12, 2004
1,181
Allied Mistress 39 Ketch Kemah,Tx.
Propane is the way to go.

Propane is the most popular system on boats. I feel very safe with a propane stove/oven The quality and safety factors have really been refined by the bottle manufacturers since the popularity of RV's. The only fires I ever hear of due to propane are in FEMA trailers.
Definitely read carefully the link that Ross attached.
We got in the habit of turning on the remote solonoid switch when we used the stove/oven inside the cabin and turn off the switch when we are through cooking. The little bottles can potentially be dangerous because they have been known to leak. Not so in the 'real' bottles like in the 11 lb. bottles and above. The hang off the rail stoves are great for cooking. Very impressive, actually.
The propane bottles must be located in a gas leak-proof compartment. Not a problem to make this, but it is essential. Inside the compartment under the seating would not work because the gas can leak into the engine compartment and the cabin. You will glass a section of this with a vent overboard.

Tony B




So is the propane kept in the same compartment with the fuel or is it ok to put it in side compartment under the seating in the cockpit?


Scott T.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Propane storage MUST vent overboard from the bottom

of the compartment and MUST be completely isolated from the rest of the boat . The vent must be above the water line at all normal angles of heel.
 

jimq26

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Jun 5, 2004
860
- - -
Hermit - have you ever researched the "Archives" here?

If you spend some time going through them (simply type in "propane")you will find many discussions on the topic.
Same goes for some other questions posted - the majority of them have been discussed in the archives.
Many newcomers to this forum don't seem to be aware of this great source of information.
 
H

Hermit Scott

archives

I do search the archives before I ask a question. However some one told me that propane on a boat was illegal and dangerous. But When I looked up custom upgrades on cruisers I kept seeing a propane set up.
I am pretty sure the po told me the range top in my 1979 catalina 30 is alcohol. It is the original. I was wondering why no one uses those. I don't know where I can buy alcohol for a stove top. If there was ANY question about propane being dangerous IN the boat cabin, I would use propane outside and alcohol inside.
I wouldn't buy those little bottles just because there is not enough in them. I had no idea about them leaking. I like the idea of glassing in a seperate compartment with a bottom vent out of the back of the boat. That sounds safe and practical. I just didn't want to end up in coast gaurd prison for illegal grilling.
 
M

Maine Sail

If..

If you really want to do this right I own and paid for a copy of ABYC A1 which is the section dealing with propane. I can email you the most important points from A1 if you get serious.

My email address is on my web site in my signature..
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,693
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Scott - propane issues

sounds like you may have misunderstood Scott. There is nothing illegal with use or storage of propane; just standards by the ABYC which recommend safe storage procedures. Alcohol stoves have been known to flare up if not started properly and can present a significant danger as well. If you check out the project/photo section, someone recently posted pictures of an ingenious method of storing the small propane cylinder under his cockpit seat which is not enclosed and may be an acceptable option for you.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Alcohol stove fuel can be bought in almost any hardware

stote as Denatured alcohol solvent. About 8-10 dollars per gallon OR you can but marine stove alcohol for 30-40 dollars per gallon.
 

John

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Jun 3, 2006
803
Catalina 36mkII Alameda CA
propane detector?

I see nobody on this thread has mentioned installing a propane detector. That was the first thing I did on our boat after we got it. The type we have emits an alarm and also closes the solenoid valve at the propane tank if it detects gas. Do others consider this unnecessary, or don't they work well, or what?
 
M

Maine Sail

I've had them on.

Five different boats and to say the least they don't last long! The sniffer needs to be so low in the bilge that the moisture and humidity kill them very, very quickly and I keep very dry bilges.

I have one on this boat and tested it last year and it worked. I tested it this spring and it's dead. It would be nice if they made a sniffer that actually lasted for more than a few years..
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Mainesail , They do! It grows on the front of the face.

The stink that is put in propane I can smell in a used piece of tubing.
 
M

Maine Sail

And if...

You hang out laying on your belly sniffing your bilge all day the built in "sniffer" works just fine. I prefer to keep my head out of the bilge..;)

If anyone know of a propane sniffer that last more than a season or two please let me know who makes it..!
 

John

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Jun 3, 2006
803
Catalina 36mkII Alameda CA
I placed mine

just above the sole under the stove. I figured if I had a leak, the propane would gather there. Actually, though, I need to test it to see if it works.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
John , A test is easy. Turn on a burner for 15 seconds and

turn it off. The alarm should sound. Remember gasoline vapors are also heavier than air. If you spill a little gasoline on a rag and drop it on the floor you will probably smell it throughout the cabin in 5 minutes. Paint thinner, gasoline, propane, alcohol vapors are all flammable and in the right mixture they are explosive.
 
Jun 19, 2004
512
Catalina 387 Hull # 24 Port Charlotte, Florida
I Use LPG

And am very happy with it. I have two bottles, both are made of stainless steel and were not cheap. Both are legal, one is set in a dedicated locker with its' own scupper drain that goes straight out the side of the boat next to its' storage compartment, there is a spare identical on the opposite side of the boat. Both are factory set ups. They require periodic inspection, which I have done at Arcet, my idustrial supplier that I work with. They are 10 lb. bottles and still cost me $10.00 for a refill. I have a solenoid valve that is electrically controlled and of course like the LPG tanks you use for your grill, they have their own valves that you physically open and close. I don't mess around with those little bottles you get at "Came Apart" or "Wally World" since like others have said are dangerous and are prone for leaks.

We have a 3 burner stove and an oven in the galley, that is on a gimbal, The Admiral hates the gimbal and won't use it. We usually have Thanksgiving Diner that she prepares on board and includes all the fixings with including pie. It is one of the favorite times of the year we have on board. Up top mounted on the stern rail is a Magma Stainless grill that is a monster, I think it is the Avalon model. The only reason I have it is because a group of friends bought it for a "House Warming Gift" when we got the boat since I wouldn't fork out 700 bucks for a grill, but it is 818 polished stainless and a really nice perk. It is extravagent as hell, but nice and when we 8 to 10 people or more on board, it makes grilling really nice and easy and we all get to eat at the same time.

I don't have a leak detector, yet the solenoid valve switch located on the electrical panel at the Nav Station has a red LED that remains illuminated when the valve is open. Instead, of relying on something that is subject to failure (as Maine Sail has indicated) we just exercise common sense and awareness like we do with everything else on board and know that it is dangerous and exercise extreme caution and haven't had a problem. It is like water, all around us, necessary for the support of life, yet if you stick your head in a bucket of water and hold it there, you stand a good risk of drowning and dying.

I think people get into trouble when they let down their guard and don't pay attention. As long as we are careful and aware of the fact that at anytime anything can happen and stay prepared with a game plan or course of action to take, then we have a good time and stay safe. With any material that is flammable, you can't be to cautious. If you have gas on board, that is a hazard, yet if it is managed properly, it can add value to your experience. White gas, alcohol, LPG, anything flammable just requires the exercise of caution. BTW, I also carry 6 ABC Fire Extinguishers that are place strategically from one end of the boat to the other and inspect them once a month. When I do my monthly, it includes taking them out of the mount and inverting them and tapping on the bottom with a rubber mallet and turning it back and forth several times to insure that the dry chem doesn't settle out and that it stays mixed. Every 5 years a hydro-test is required, in lieu of that, I replace them since the cost is the same. Again, at least I hope that if something happens, Heaven Forbid, I have a plan to keep the boat from going to the water line. If that happens, that's why I have insurance and hopefully my guests on board and I will get safely off without harm.

Wow, didn't mean to ramble, just wanted to stress how important it is to be careful and safe, since this is something that is very dangerous and you can't be too safe. Enjoy the fine meals you come up with when you figure out what to go with. Check out the Force grill also in addition to the Magma. Go with Stainless so you don't replace it real often.
 
Mar 27, 2007
18
- - Newburyport Ma
Scott here is a technique to lighting an acohol stove

Yes propane is great for cooking,for the little amount you cook why go through the expense and trouble of converting and setting up for propane, when your equipment is already on acohol.Denatured acohol is avaiable at any hardware store. There is one subject I have not seen mentioned on this site ,is the technique to lighting an acohol stove. Before turning the burner knob on, heat the burner with your hand held propane torch.Heating the burner from side to side,once you feel its hot enough to ( vaporize ) turn your knob on, you may have to shut it off momentarly as not to allow too much acohol to flow. once you have established a good flame, the knob will opperate properly with a good flame. Buy not doing this procedure you will have a flame that you do not want to have. ps I,m a licensed gas man 1985 catalina 30'
 
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