Propane on a boat

[Smitty]

My 1986 Cal 28 has a propane stove with the tank located in an aft lazerrette. The compartment is vented into the cockpit but not to the outside of the hull. The tank is not tied down but the compartment is small enough that it can't tip over or move around much. There's a solenoid valve controlled by a switch in the galley. I keep the valve on the tank and the solenoid valve off at all times except when we're actually using the stove.

I teach boating safety for the Coast Guard Auxiliary and I've listened to other senior instructors do their parts of classes. They all bemoan the dangers of propane and tell students that they should avoid having propane on a boat.

I've always believed that, handled correctly and sanely, propane is okay and safe. I don't care for alcohol stoves and had a friend whose boat burned to the waterline from an alcohol fire. LNG seems to be very hard to get and that kind of rules it out, in my opinion.

I'm interested in what the members here think about this issue. Do you consider propane safe and usable or not?

--Smitty

 

[jibes138]

I've used it for 16 years without incident. Previously I used pressurized alcohol and an Origo alcohol. Of the three I thought the Origo was the best. Not as good as propane for heat output but much simpler, safer, fuel readily available at any hardware store, no hoses, solenoids that need replacement for very high dollars, etc. I figure if it is already installed and in good condition why change?

 

[Tim R.]

Propane is as safe as you make it. Your propane locker vents to the cockpit. The cockpit should vent overboard via the scuppers. Not ideal but better than nothing.

Another safety device would be a fume sniffer installed below any propane appliances that would shut off the solenoid. Also make sure you have a pressure gauge at the tank to test for leaks periodically.

Propane is the cruisers choice for fuel. It is cheap and easy to get worldwide.

I am not aware of a LNG system on boats. I think you may be thinking of CNG. CNG is great but is expensive and can be very difficult to find even in the US. It is considered safer than Propane(LPG) because it is lighter than air and will not settle in the bilges.

 

[Smitty]

Thank you both for your quick replies. Tim, I think you're correct. I did mean CNG. A friend had it on his Pacific Seacraft and recently changed over to propane because of the lack of availability.

Now, the question is, how do I get these "old school" instructors to change their tune and push for propane safety as opposed to just telling folks to not use it?

 

[Tim R.]

Thank you both for your quick replies. Tim, I think you're correct. I did mean CNG. A friend had it on his Pacific Seacraft and recently changed over to propane because of the lack of availability.

Now, the question is, how do I get these "old school" instructors to change their tune and push for propane safety as opposed to just telling folks to not use it?

Interesting. I did a lot of training via USPS up thru advanced piloting. I remember there being quite a few members with power boats(including instructors) with gasoline engines. What is their stance on gasoline? It is no more safe than propane.

 

[Steve Dion]

I would put the use of gasoline and propane in the same category. You may want to ask the "senior" instructors what they think about gasoline fumes on board the vessel.

 

[Snotter]

I'd go the extra step of venting the locker overboard.

 

[Ron20324]

I'd go the extra step of venting the locker overboard.

If the cockpit is not open-like through the transom- propane will seek the lowest place, which means it POSSIBLY could go down the companionway. That may be a long shot since there is so much air through the cockpit, but, yeah, I'd vote for reventing out through the hull. That may be the present day requirement?

 

[geehaw]

Yes I think it should be taught also. My set up was installed all wrong. Vent running up hill instead of down. The locker installed as low as possible. The thru-hull as high almost as it possibly could be placed. I still need a better detector. I looked for one that controlled the solenoid in the case of detection but could not find one. There are ones that have a manual control that you can wire the solenoid to so if the detector alarms you can turn it off at the detector monitor. I would think that would be better then the breaker switch (the way mine is wired) as less likely to make a spark. Greg

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Brutha's, you knew I couldn't let this one pass.

Thank you to all who recognize the similarity between propane and gasoline. I have a gas powered boat and I'm frequently the target of "Atomic Bomb" jokes from diesel hypocrites who suggest my boat will certainly explode with the next turn of the key while they merrily cook with propane.

I'm not saying propane and gasoline don't have their dangers but careful attention to safety and maintenance is the key.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Now, the question is, how do I get these "old school" instructors to change their tune and push for propane safety as opposed to just telling folks to not use it?

You can't, you won't, do don't even bother going there.

 

[greg17887]

I had a 1988 Cal 28 back in the ‘90s loved the boat. The wife never forgave me for selling it. If I remember right it did not have a fume sniffer. When I installed propane on my Catalina 30 (my captain would not cook on Alcohol) I was able to by a solenoid with auto shutoff from WM. The fume sniffer is in the bilge and I check the sniffer with an unlit propane striker. I worked with propane for over 40 yrs you got to make sure that there aren’t any leeks. A squirt bottle with soap in it works great.

 

[zeehag]

love it wont change from it and have gooo dsmooth sailing and deelishus foods.
have seen more fires on board from alcohol stoves than any kind of propane problem.

 

[Stephen Trapani]

Not many people realize that a very specific concentration of propane is required in order for it to ignite/explode. Too high (as you find in the tanks or pipes) or too low will not ignite. If one has a constant leak or chronic problem one gives it a million chances to acquire that specific concentration, but with proper precautions, the chances of acquiring that specific concentration are very very slim, especially with the proper precautions.

In our current world of enhanced worldwide communication a false positive risk appears because any serious incident anywhere in this big wide world is almost instantly known by all who care. You can find numerous scary horror stories of propane accidents on this site, for example. I have two CO detectors and a propane detector on my boat. When I sleep (or any other time it will be unattended) I turn of the solenoid and propane devices. And I keep a sharp nose out. Under these conditions I am thousands of times more at risk from the trip to the boat in my car than I am on my boat with propane.

 

[Ross]

You are far more likely to be killed or injured by falling on your boat or falling off your boat than you ever will be by a properly installed and maintained propane system or gasoline engine system.

 

[Merlin Clark]

Only fire I've ever had on a boat was pressurized alcohol and will never have one of those stoves again.
An aquaintaince had an old Searay and showed me the stove whose burners had both "gas" (IIRC propane) and electric elements.
I used to take bombs apart for a living and this arrangement scared the crap out of me.
I've had propane (staight propane, no weird stuff like the Searay) on 3 boats and wouldn't have anything else.
Well, maybe the "Mr. Reactor" like on that infamous DeLorean. Never run out of power or have to haul trash down the dock again.