Propane installation

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palacegrand

palacegrand

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Jul 9, 2004
80
Yamaha 30 - Sidney
Hi Folks,
So on board (Yamaha 30 sloop) I already have propane for the stove/oven in the galley. Complete with solenoid & sensor setup, isolated self draining tank well in the cockpit.
I'm now about to install a Dickinson Newport 9000 heater.
The Newport manual on page 9 shows/states a separate regulator for each appliance.
(hmmm? this is slightly different than the manual that came with the heater)

http://dickinsonmarine.com/Manuals/p9%20p12%20htr%202008.pdf

Any body have an opinion as to whether the second regulator is actually necessary?

Looking forward to winter nights on board!

Thanks,
Craig
in Sidney BC
 
Don12364

Don12364

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Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
The reasons as stated on pages 8 & 9 are ABYC regs and the possibility of one or both appliances drawing more gas than the regulator can supply.
The regs cannot foresee what other appliances may be connected and what their consumption is likely to be. Both manufacturer advice and regulations err on the side of caution, particularly as there is a risk of incomplete burning of the gas and probability that neither device will have a safety device which shuts it down if the gas pressure goes too low rather than stops altogether.
However all appliances must be capable of safe operation in the event that the gas bottle runs low.
Dickinson don't help by not providing a specification which shows the gas consumption of the heater - though I would expect to see this on the appliance plate.

As I read it this is analogous to an electrical installation where one should ensure the wiring is of suitable gauge (read pipe diameter), the breaker is correctly rated (read regulator) and there is an on/off switch of each device (read shut off valve).
Electricians do the math and put several appliances on the same breaker so I see no reason why gas fitters should not do likewise - provided they can also do the math!

However you are likely then to be outside the ABYC regs but the manufacturer's warranty should stand if you work to the manual as supplied with the heater.
Perhaps a close read of ABYC regs will shed more light on this and then a call to Dickinsons?

You could do the work and use a manometer (water 'U' tube) to measure the inlet pressure to each appliance when both are full on. Or get a gas fitter to check it out.

Regulators are not expensive but it would be a nuisance to have to go into the cockpit to operate a separate gas tap to bring the heater on and adding more piping and components on the high pressure side of the installation is definitely counter productive as is more spaghetti low pressure gas piping through the boat.

Interestingly gas regulations for buildings do not insist on individual regulators, supply pipes and stopcocks for each appliance.

Good luck and warm nights.
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Donalex has said it well and I can add that it is unlikely that you will be running all of the burners and the oven on the stove and have the heater going at the same time. If you turn on all of the electrical equipment attached to a single circuit you will probably trip the breaker. In my shop my bandsaw, table saw, drill press and lathe are all on the same circuit but I can't use them all at once.
 
B

Benny

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Sep 27, 2008
1,149
Hunter 320 Tampa, FL
Both your stove and heater are low pressure appliances and there is a good chance one appliance may be difficult to start or run if the other is in use and they share one regulator.
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Benny said:
Both your stove and heater are low pressure appliances and there is a good chance one appliance may be difficult to start or run if the other is in use and they share one regulator.
Click to expand
My Force 10 stove and my Force 10 cabin heater are on the same supply line and have the same size burners. My stove has 3 top burners plus the broiler and oven burner. I can light all of the burners in the stove with no difficulty and still light the heater. Not that I would ever need to even during a blizzard.
 
druid

druid

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Apr 22, 2009
837
Ontario 32 Pender Harbour
I don't think you really need separate regulators - I run my Force10 stove and Dickinson heater together all the time, on a single regulator. What IS important is to have the tee right at the tank (ie in the propane locker) - it can be downstream of the regulator, but should be in the locker, not in the cabin.

druid
 
palacegrand

palacegrand

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Jul 9, 2004
80
Yamaha 30 - Sidney
Hi Folks,
Thanks for all the responses.
They more or less confirm my original suppositions.
It's not likely that I'll be using both appliances at the same time, and a small draw for each if I was using both.
I solo mostly, so don't use the oven much, and the stove is for coffee or single (occasionally two) pot/pan meals in conjunction with the BBQ. (Which is separate from the main tank)
Should using both turn out to be problematic I can always: a) turn off the Dickinson while cooking or b) drink scotch instead of tea while warming the cabin.
Ok, to be honest ..... I'll be drinking something in the evening that doesn't require the stove no matter what! :)

While I'm at it, I'm using a new solenoid (purchased for but never installed on a previous boat), new regulator and will replace the stove hose while I'm at it. (not sure what condition it is in so .....)

Will try to take some pictures of the stove install as I go.

cheers all,
jcm in Victoria
 
Don12364

Don12364

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Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
And when you sell the boat?
Best to make sure the regulator can handle the full flow and there is not an excessive pressure drop along the pipe.
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Regulators are usually labeled for maximum BTU capacity. The smallest I have seen are 60,000 BTUs .
 
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