Propane - Can I Keep It Simple

[Jtcf78911]

Hi everyone.

Finally got up the gumption to pull ugly and dangerous alcohol fueled range top and plan to replace with something simple fueled by propane. I'm not a world traveler and would likely use the range sparingly, but still nice to have. So simple me thought I could just place a camping size propane tank (the little green guys) in the cabinet space under the range, of course appropriately secured. But then I started reading about specialized holding areas for propane tanks, 20 feet of propane line, regulators, etc. So....does it have to be this complicated? Fully understand there is some risk with propane..

Common sense guidance appreciated.

Captain T.

 

[justsomeguy]

Common sense guidance appreciated.

It certainly needs to drain outside if permanently installed.

 

[Jtcf78911]

Sorry. Totally ignorant on this. What exactly would be draining. Propane as a fuel is burned and...??

 

[dlochner]

Hi everyone.

Finally got up the gumption to pull ugly and dangerous alcohol fueled range top and plan to replace with something simple fueled by propane. I'm not a world traveler and would likely use the range sparingly, but still nice to have. So simple me thought I could just place a camping size propane tank (the little green guys) in the cabinet space under the range, of course appropriately secured. But then I started reading about specialized holding areas for propane tanks, 20 feet of propane line, regulators, etc. So....does it have to be this complicated? Fully understand there is some risk with propane..

Common sense guidance appreciated.

Captain T.

Well, a small camping stove would work, until it didn't and it might end with a bang.

Propane is heavier than air, so any leaking propane will settle in the bilge. Once in the bilge a single spark could ignite it with catastrophic consequences. Propane is every bit as dangerous as gasoline.

So, yes, follow the guidelines.

Sorry. Totally ignorant on this. What exactly would be draining. Propane as a fuel is burned and...??

Propane tanks should be stored in an area sealed off from the interior of the boat with a drain, so that any leaking propane will flow out the drain and in to the atmosphere. The drain needs to be at the lowest point of the tank, it needs to be straight with out any bends that can trap water, ending above the water line and there needs to be a secondary vent slightly higher to allow the gas to flow out.

The solenoid cuts off the gas supply at the tank so there is very little gas left in the line in case the gas line should leak. The gas line needs to be protected from chafe at all points where it might chafe. Gas sensors should be installed and connected to the solenoid so the gas supply is shut off in case of a leak.

Propane is safe so long as it is installed correctly.

 

[Rich Stidger]

Sorry. Totally ignorant on this. What exactly would be draining. Propane as a fuel is burned and...??

Should there be a leak, the propane is heavier than air and would likely settle in your bilge and wait for an ignition. Worse case your boat and possibly you would be reduced to a pile of toothpicks and slivers of fiberglass.
Not good.
So an enclosed space is made for propane tanks of any size and a drain line is lead lower to an outside vent. In the case of a leak the propane is vented harmlessly outside.

BTW, I have had these 1# cans leak after being removed from the appliance. Always sniff and check after removing one of these.

 

[rgranger]

So if you have a line going into the cabin from an external tank and the line leaked, it would leak into the cabin. That is bad because it can settle down low and find a spark and....

But if you are going to use the little green guys, a safe way for you to deal with that is to store them OUT of the cabin. A good solution I've seen is to take a 6" PVC pipe and using large hose clamps (like the kind the sell for dryer ducts) you can secure the PVC pipe to a stanchion. Put a cap on the bottom with a weep hole and put a cap on the top. Slide the canisters in there for storage. If they leak, it will "drain overboard". Glue a small line or ribbon near the lip of the PVC pipe and when you drop the green guy down the pipe, make sure the line goes with it. You can then use the line to lift the green guy out. Put another cap on the PVC to close it up but don't glue the top one.

 

[rgranger]

I don't know if my description made sense so I sketched this schematic

Hose clamp this to a stanchion. The red line is the ribbon or small stuff used to retrieve the canister. Home Depot or Lowes sells the large hose clamps... and if you go to the plumbing section you can even find SS clamps. These will go around the 6" pipe and then around a stanchion. Clamp it in place and ... done. You can probably buy a 3' piece of pipe and make several of these... then store two or three bottles on your boat in perfect safety. Just bring them in the cabin to cook and then take them back out to store.
And only glue the bottom cap.... drill a small weep hole in the bottom cap.

 

[Jtcf78911]

Well, a small camping stove would work, until it didn't and it might end with a bang.

Propane is heavier than air, so any leaking propane will settle in the bilge. Once in the bilge a single spark could ignite it with catastrophic consequences. Propane is every bit as dangerous as gasoline.

So, yes, follow the guidelines.



Propane tanks should be stored in an area sealed off from the interior of the boat with a drain, so that any leaking propane will flow out the drain and in to the atmosphere. The drain needs to be at the lowest point of the tank, it needs to be straight with out any bends that can trap water, ending above the water line and there needs to be a secondary vent slightly higher to allow the gas to flow out.

The solenoid cuts off the gas supply at the tank so there is very little gas left in the line in case the gas line should leak. The gas line needs to be protected from chafe at all points where it might chafe. Gas sensors should be installed and connected to the solenoid so the gas supply is shut off in case of a leak.

Propane is safe so long as it is installed correctly.

So when you say "interior of the boat" that would mean any area below topsides? I have a spot in my port side settee that used to hold a water heater - about same size as a full size propane tank. I could certainly build a "locker" in that space for hold of tank. It is a tad close to the engine....

 

[dlochner]

So when you say "interior of the boat" that would mean any area below topsides? I have a spot in my port side settee that used to hold a water heater - about same size as a full size propane tank. I could certainly build a "locker" in that space for hold of tank. It is a tad close to the engine....

Probably won't work, because the drain will probably not be above the waterline. The drain has to be below the tank and above the water line on all points of sail. There can not be any bend in it that could form a water trap and block the free flow of the gas to the atmosphere.

There used to be a couple of non-pressurized alcohol stoves that were a good replacement for the pressurized stoves, but they don't seem to be on the market any longer. You might find one on eBay, look for an Origo Alcohol stove.

 

[thinwater]

OP: You either need to get a professional to do the installation, which won't be cheap, or use a portable one-burner stove with a <8 ounce tank. Alternatively, buy the ABYC standard and really read it. Too many scary statements.

Dometic sold the Origo line to CleanCook several years ago. They are not currently retailing stoves, but are considering it. It is a non-profit focused on selling stoves to the third world. They are alcohol stoves, but the unpressurized sort, which are quite safe.
http://cleancook.com/

 

[rgranger]

I have a 2 burner Origo on my boat. Very nice. Love it.

 

[BigEasy]

There is an online seminar that is offered by the US Power Squadron. It describes propane systems in detail including storage & venting, regulators, lines, solenoid valves, cooking devices, failsafe components, inspections, & maintenance. Lots of info in great detail. It is a good resource for anyone with a propane system on board, and especially for someone who is considering the installation of a propane system.

 

[Richard19068]

On the O'day 31 there is a small locker at the aft end of the starboard cockpit seat. This locker has a bottom opening that drains to the cockpit sole just above the starboard cockpit drain. From the pictures I have seen the 28 has the same locker. When not in use I store my small BBQ propane cans in that locker so if they leak the gas will flow down out of the locker and then down the cockpit drain (which is above the unhealed waterline).

I have had these tanks leak. You do not want to store them in the cabin or lazarette.

If I wanted to store them in the lazarett I would build a separate compartment with a dedicated drain/vent at the bottom of the compartment and through the hull above the waterline.

 

[PaulK]

West Marine has a nice diagram showing how to set up a proper propane supply. Safe Propane Installations | West Marine
We have also had the small green tanks suddenly be empty for no reason: they should not be trusted to be left anywhere below deck. We also had a boat with a pressurized alcohol stove blow up and burn in our harbor when the vapors got too thick below and ignited. This is not something to mess around with - stoves HAVE to be done right. Especially in a smaller boat that will fill with gas more quickly. While you are reading up on this you could use a camping stove or boat bbq out on deck, but I would detach the bottle and store it as rgranger suggests when not in use.

 

[Rich Stidger]

I use REFILLABLE 1# bottles for my BBQ. These bottles are designed to be re-filled; they are NOT the normal green throw-aways.

I made a bottle storage container that holds 3 bottles. There is a hole in the bottom of the vertical storage tube for any leaking gas to flow overboard.

 

[rgranger]

I really like the rail mounted BBQs and wish I had one.

 

[Richard19068]

Here's a fun one a lot of you may have already seen.

2 small cans of propane

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Common sense would probably say to everybody responding in this forum that this is not a DIY installation for this original poster and there are no shortcuts or conveniences that would justify avoiding a professional installation, no matter how much risk the OP is willing to take. I certainly have no common sense advise except to say make sure your propane installation meets ALL ABYC requirements. Get professional help!

 

[dlochner]

The original size Magma grills can be used with a pot or frying pan, so that may be a good safe option.

 

[thinwater]

I really like the rail mounted BBQs and wish I had one.

I've had a rail mount on my cruising cat and I found that I didn't use it that much. The first problem is wind. The second problem is bugs; nothing draws mosquitores to the boat like a grill. It just seemed like more trouble than it was worth, and we had a nice galley. But if you like steak it could be the bomb.