At the risk of resurrecting a sensitive subject (my review of the archives on this subject made for some interesting reading!) I was wondering what action, if any, 350 owners are taking with regard to the prop shaft kit "repair" kit supplied by Catalina. (I received our kit in June and then got busy surviving, and repairing damage from, Charley, Frances and Jeanne and didnt have the time to worry about this issue until now.) It seems that our options are to 1) leave the "repair" kit in the box and be careful to "burp" the shaft bellows as recommended by the prop manufacturer; 2) Wait until the next routine haul out and install the kit at that time; 3) Install the kit while the boat is in the water (perhaps a dicey choice); Pull the boat ASAP and install the kit. When I spoke to Jerry from the Morgan plant here in FLA, he agreed with my statement that the (only) reason Catalina is supplying the kit--usually necessary only for higher speed boats--- is to "go the extra mile" to be sure the prop does not incur extra wear since sailboat owners may not be as vigilant in "burping" their bellows. I was just curious to hear what folks out there are doing with regard to this issue. Thanks Bill Welsch s/v "Escapade"
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Frank
Prop shaft seal repair
Bill, I share your pain. I would refer you to the archives where I posted a similar question on 5/24/04. (It's under "Prop shaft vibration repair" for the 350 model.) There are a number of responses. After that, I also talked with two other 350 owners in my marina area. At the end of August, I had the boat hauled and had the kit replaced by a local yard. My Catalina dealer paid the labor cost (but not the haulout). It's working great. Good luck with your decision; I just did it and put the angst behind me. Frank C-350 Kemah, TX
Bill, I share your pain. I would refer you to the archives where I posted a similar question on 5/24/04. (It's under "Prop shaft vibration repair" for the 350 model.) There are a number of responses. After that, I also talked with two other 350 owners in my marina area. At the end of August, I had the boat hauled and had the kit replaced by a local yard. My Catalina dealer paid the labor cost (but not the haulout). It's working great. Good luck with your decision; I just did it and put the angst behind me. Frank C-350 Kemah, TX
Dripless Shaft Seal
This caught my eye because I have the dripless shaft seal and am curious about it. So started reading in the archives about the problems. I have noticed noise like rattling. I thought that perhaps the cutless was going bad and would check that when the boat is hauled for the winter. Now I'm not so sure. The other day was changing the racor fuel filter and noticed two set screws laying in the area. Looked around and found that they had fallen out of the DSS rotor, both from one hole. I put them back but have read that they should be seated with dri-loc. Seems to me that if the set screws did come out and the DSS failed, the boat could sink. In the meantime, I still have this rattling sound that when turning is worse. Seems I can get rid of it if I throttle up to 2500 RPM. I've checked the alignment, seems to be ok. Any thoughts? Just live with it?
This caught my eye because I have the dripless shaft seal and am curious about it. So started reading in the archives about the problems. I have noticed noise like rattling. I thought that perhaps the cutless was going bad and would check that when the boat is hauled for the winter. Now I'm not so sure. The other day was changing the racor fuel filter and noticed two set screws laying in the area. Looked around and found that they had fallen out of the DSS rotor, both from one hole. I put them back but have read that they should be seated with dri-loc. Seems to me that if the set screws did come out and the DSS failed, the boat could sink. In the meantime, I still have this rattling sound that when turning is worse. Seems I can get rid of it if I throttle up to 2500 RPM. I've checked the alignment, seems to be ok. Any thoughts? Just live with it?
DSS REPAIR
Frank, looks like we were posting at about the same time. Note that I have a 320. I went back and read your post. Sounds like my problem. Thanks, Paul
Frank, looks like we were posting at about the same time. Note that I have a 320. I went back and read your post. Sounds like my problem. Thanks, Paul
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Bill Welsch
Thanks, Frank
...for the info. Found even more on the subject in the archives. It sounds like one of those typical situations where there are multiple ways to approach the problem. Good luck with your newly installed cooling kit. Keep us posted about how it goes. In the meantime, I wonder how other folks who seemed to have strong opinions on the subject(Blair and Tom for example) elected to handle the issue. In the meantime, we are THRILLED that the hurricane season is almost over...at least for this year. Bill W. s/v "Escapade"
...for the info. Found even more on the subject in the archives. It sounds like one of those typical situations where there are multiple ways to approach the problem. Good luck with your newly installed cooling kit. Keep us posted about how it goes. In the meantime, I wonder how other folks who seemed to have strong opinions on the subject(Blair and Tom for example) elected to handle the issue. In the meantime, we are THRILLED that the hurricane season is almost over...at least for this year. Bill W. s/v "Escapade"
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Blair Dehuff
DSS Water Injection Kit
I had my yard install the water injection kit (with the boat out of the water) last month, plus (another) new cutlass bearing. The vibration problem has not reappeared(so far)after 20 or so hours on the engine. However, will have to wait and see. I think it's important to mention that I had previously hauled out my boat last May to install the water injection kit and a new cutlass bearing, but my yard could not install the kit at that time due to the fact that the carbon graphite flange sent by the factory turned out to be the wrong size. Since I did not want to waste a haulout I had the yard install a new cutlass bearing to see how long it would last without the water injection kit. Not long, as it turned out. It was fine at first, but wore enough in 50 hours to cause exactly the same vibration problem I had previously, even though I regularly "burped" the shaft seal. It seems the cutlass bearing still was not getting enough water for lubrication. Since I also had the yard frequently check the shaft alignment, it seems to me that the excessive wear of the cutlass bearing (and resultant vibration) must to be due to lack of sufficient water to lubricate. Hopefully, the water injection kit actually will resolve this problem over the long term.
I had my yard install the water injection kit (with the boat out of the water) last month, plus (another) new cutlass bearing. The vibration problem has not reappeared(so far)after 20 or so hours on the engine. However, will have to wait and see. I think it's important to mention that I had previously hauled out my boat last May to install the water injection kit and a new cutlass bearing, but my yard could not install the kit at that time due to the fact that the carbon graphite flange sent by the factory turned out to be the wrong size. Since I did not want to waste a haulout I had the yard install a new cutlass bearing to see how long it would last without the water injection kit. Not long, as it turned out. It was fine at first, but wore enough in 50 hours to cause exactly the same vibration problem I had previously, even though I regularly "burped" the shaft seal. It seems the cutlass bearing still was not getting enough water for lubrication. Since I also had the yard frequently check the shaft alignment, it seems to me that the excessive wear of the cutlass bearing (and resultant vibration) must to be due to lack of sufficient water to lubricate. Hopefully, the water injection kit actually will resolve this problem over the long term.
PSS causing cutless wear?
Blair, I really don't see what the water injection kit has to do with enough water lubrication on the cutless. They are not even close to one another. Now, if lack of water on the PSS is causing vibration and wearing the cutless, I can see this. Thanks, Paul
Blair, I really don't see what the water injection kit has to do with enough water lubrication on the cutless. They are not even close to one another. Now, if lack of water on the PSS is causing vibration and wearing the cutless, I can see this. Thanks, Paul
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Bill Welsch
Cutlass bearing wear?
Blair, thanks for the update on what you have done. It may be a dumb question but how did you know the cutlass bearing had excessive wear? What exactly did it look like? Is this something a relatively untrained person can detect? Thanks again Bill Welsch s/v Escapade
Blair, thanks for the update on what you have done. It may be a dumb question but how did you know the cutlass bearing had excessive wear? What exactly did it look like? Is this something a relatively untrained person can detect? Thanks again Bill Welsch s/v Escapade
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Tom S
Paul from Chestertown, that rattling could be
from the Drive Plate (or called Damper Plates)- Its common enough on some boats. But usually its only when the boat is in gear and its around idling speed or no more than ~ 1100 rpms. Does it go away when the boat is in neutral? If it doesn't go away until 2500 rpms (almost full throttle) something sounds very wrong (Are you sure your tach is calibrated??). The "basic" Drive Plates have springs in it that rattle. (More info on the Q & A http://www.merequipment.com/Frequently%20Asked%20Questions/hurth_qa.htm http://www.foleyengines.com/TechTips/TechTip39.html ) But the reality is that the springs should be fairly tight. If they rattle then it's time to replace it -- If you do replace it - I highly recommend replacing with the "springless" Drive Plates like the R&D brand http://www.merequipment.com/Transmissions/drive_plates.htm
from the Drive Plate (or called Damper Plates)- Its common enough on some boats. But usually its only when the boat is in gear and its around idling speed or no more than ~ 1100 rpms. Does it go away when the boat is in neutral? If it doesn't go away until 2500 rpms (almost full throttle) something sounds very wrong (Are you sure your tach is calibrated??). The "basic" Drive Plates have springs in it that rattle. (More info on the Q & A http://www.merequipment.com/Frequently%20Asked%20Questions/hurth_qa.htm http://www.foleyengines.com/TechTips/TechTip39.html ) But the reality is that the springs should be fairly tight. If they rattle then it's time to replace it -- If you do replace it - I highly recommend replacing with the "springless" Drive Plates like the R&D brand http://www.merequipment.com/Transmissions/drive_plates.htm
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Tom S
Paul the Cutless Bearing on your C320
is located in a much different location than the C350. Its out in the open on your boat about 2 feet behind the keel, but on the C350 the cutless bearing has a "deadwood" section coming out of the bottom of the hull. There is no forward access for water flow to the front of the cutless bearing. (C320 Hull Profile http://www.catalinayachts.com/yachts.cfm?act=model&id=22&link=spec C350 Hull Profile http://www.catalinayachts.com/yachts.cfm?act=model&id=48&link=spec But I agree with the Catalina factory person, I'm not so sure the PSS would cause a direct problem with the C350 cutless bearing, but I guess if the is an air-pocket in the PSS then maybe water flow thru the Cutless Bearing is reduced (but I'd be MUCH more concerned with the PSS over heating or failing due to no water)
is located in a much different location than the C350. Its out in the open on your boat about 2 feet behind the keel, but on the C350 the cutless bearing has a "deadwood" section coming out of the bottom of the hull. There is no forward access for water flow to the front of the cutless bearing. (C320 Hull Profile http://www.catalinayachts.com/yachts.cfm?act=model&id=22&link=spec C350 Hull Profile http://www.catalinayachts.com/yachts.cfm?act=model&id=48&link=spec But I agree with the Catalina factory person, I'm not so sure the PSS would cause a direct problem with the C350 cutless bearing, but I guess if the is an air-pocket in the PSS then maybe water flow thru the Cutless Bearing is reduced (but I'd be MUCH more concerned with the PSS over heating or failing due to no water)
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Blair Dehuff
Cutlasss Bearing
Bill - I was unable to tell if my cutlass bearing was worn until the prop shaft was actually pulled out of the boat. First, I had a diver go under the boat to see if he could find any "play" in the shaft by shaking it. It seemed to be tight. I decided to haul out the boat anyway and pull the prop shaft. (The shaft turned out to be perfectly straight by the way.) When the shaft was pulled, the yard mechanic initially pointed out that the cutlass bearing seemed to be sort of "fried" on the inside. When the cutlass bearing was actually removed from the boat it did appear to be burned looking on the inside ("cooked" or "charred" would be appropriate descriptions). Paul, as regards your point - I know this sounds a bit odd, but prior to installing the water injection kit Frank Butler and Jerry Douglas phoned me to say they were going to send me a written procedure and a drawing concerning drilling some holes in what they called the "skeg" area (I believe this the "deadwood" area that Tom has described). They said it was in order to allow more water to reach the cutlass bearing. They subsequently changed their mind and said I should simply go ahead with the water injection kit. It seems the water injection kit ends up serving duel purposes. It not only ensures sufficient cooling water to the PSS, it also provides a flow of water to the cutlass bearing. I'm now on my 3rd cutlass bearing (i.e. the original, the 1st replacement (w/o water injection kit), and the most recent new one when the water injected PSS was installed. So far so good.
Bill - I was unable to tell if my cutlass bearing was worn until the prop shaft was actually pulled out of the boat. First, I had a diver go under the boat to see if he could find any "play" in the shaft by shaking it. It seemed to be tight. I decided to haul out the boat anyway and pull the prop shaft. (The shaft turned out to be perfectly straight by the way.) When the shaft was pulled, the yard mechanic initially pointed out that the cutlass bearing seemed to be sort of "fried" on the inside. When the cutlass bearing was actually removed from the boat it did appear to be burned looking on the inside ("cooked" or "charred" would be appropriate descriptions). Paul, as regards your point - I know this sounds a bit odd, but prior to installing the water injection kit Frank Butler and Jerry Douglas phoned me to say they were going to send me a written procedure and a drawing concerning drilling some holes in what they called the "skeg" area (I believe this the "deadwood" area that Tom has described). They said it was in order to allow more water to reach the cutlass bearing. They subsequently changed their mind and said I should simply go ahead with the water injection kit. It seems the water injection kit ends up serving duel purposes. It not only ensures sufficient cooling water to the PSS, it also provides a flow of water to the cutlass bearing. I'm now on my 3rd cutlass bearing (i.e. the original, the 1st replacement (w/o water injection kit), and the most recent new one when the water injected PSS was installed. So far so good.
Thanks
I spent the past two days on the boat, at the beginning of each day I burped the PSS and did not notice the rattling that I spoke of earlier, not even in turns. So, I'm still sorting all this out, several good ideas on things to check and I appreciate each and every one. Will continue to investigate. Thanks, Paul
I spent the past two days on the boat, at the beginning of each day I burped the PSS and did not notice the rattling that I spoke of earlier, not even in turns. So, I'm still sorting all this out, several good ideas on things to check and I appreciate each and every one. Will continue to investigate. Thanks, Paul
Thanks again
Tom, Thanks for your thoughts. The rattling is not present in neutral. I'll have to play with it some more to see at what RPM it starts and they when it goes away. Certainly was present in a turn. Paul
Tom, Thanks for your thoughts. The rattling is not present in neutral. I'll have to play with it some more to see at what RPM it starts and they when it goes away. Certainly was present in a turn. Paul
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