Prop or head sail?

[Gail R]

We have done both -- gotten new sails and went from a fixed to a folding prop. The incremental gain in performance that we got going from the two-blade fixed to the two-blade Martec folding prop far, far, far exceeded the performance gain that we got with a new headsail. I would imagine the incremental gain for you, going from a three-bladed fixed prop, would be even greater.

Furthermore, the folding Martec prop has served us just fine under power. Does it work as well in reverse as a three-bladed fixed prop would? Probably not, but we find we hardly ever need to use reverse, so it does not matter. Seriously, how often do you really need to power backwards?

All that said, of course the optimal solution would be to find a way to buy both.

 

[peconicbay]

head sail all athe way

Hello all... I am looking to spend a few bucks in the off season (50th birthday you know) and was considering purchasing either a new head sail or a feathering prop. My headsail is a 150 Hood that is 10+/- years old... Is ok but even I can see its shape is not great. Prop is a 3 blade fixed that does its job but of course gives some drag.

We are cruisers that love to have the boat move when out sailing. What would be the better place to put my money to get better performance out of the boat; a new head sail or prop.

Thanks

I have found that a new sail is a huge performance booster. I recently bought new sails for my catalina 27. Main sail first year, head sail two years later. The old sails were about 10 years old. I could not believe how much better the boat sailed.

 

[JeffM]

I would go with the sail, fixed props don't wear out. A half knot is 6 miles in a 12 hour day. If you were in a hurry you could drive or fly to wherever you are going. What you don't spend you don't need to earn.

Even the half knot increase (which is the low end of what a feathering/folding prop yields) would actually be 7 miles in 12 hours, plus you'll be able to point a bit higher. That means you'll get to your destination at least an hour sooner. However, if you motor a good part of your time on the water, that 3 blade prop may push you along a bit better.

Delivery captains who point the boat at the destination, turn the engine on and leave the sails covered like a fixed 3 blade prop, if only for the trip. Performance sailors know that a locked down 3 blade prop is like dragging a 5 gallon bucket behind the boat.

Life is full of decisions

 

[SVTurtledance]

I am sending my Max prop for a tune up!

I would look at a 2 bladed max prop, it can be set for your needs and disires,(speed/pitch).

 

[Hayden Watson]

Under PHRF rating if you go from a 3 blade fixed prop to a folding or feathering prop it will change your handicap by 12 seconds per mile. If you from a 135% jib to a 150% jib it will only change by 3 seconds per mile.
That handicappers say that the prop would give you more speed potential than changing from a 90% to a 150%.
Go with the prop.

 

[johey]

I've done both in a similar situation. I got the Kiwi feathering prop, which added about 1 knot of boat speed in light to medium winds. The boat backs better and the easily replaced composite blades add an unexpected ease of mind factor. I got very used to it and would miss it greatly.
I also got a headsail with a lower foot, which allowed me to point higher by about 5 degrees and has a big smile factor. I found it online from a big sail store at about half the price of having one made. That, and the low cost of the Kiwi prop, allowed me to do both for about the same price as some of the folding props I was looking at.

 

[ancientmariner]

Cleaner bottom, reduced weight, and learning more about sail trim may be more effective than either!
For out-and-out feel good upgrade, I would go with a new sail.

 

[CHARLIE STAGE]

I just went through the same decision this past summer and bought the sail. I feel did not make the wrong decision, but then I have low hours on my engine and sail on and off my mooring. I am considering a folding prop in the future however. My purchase was for my 60th, keep sailing.

 

[BruceC]

Unless you plan to a considerable amount of time on the water racing, I would definitely go with the new head sail; but then, I would not put the money into a feathering prop now or later.

 

[Cherie320]

All good advice. The 3-blade is forever, if you keep a zinc on it. The sail needs to be replaced or your overall performance suffers. Sail first. Prop, only if you absolutely positively must. Or if your dock mate is consistently beating you home for the beer. Note - there is maintenance with a feathering prop that is not required with a fixed prop. Racing costs everything you can afford. Crusing, not so much ......... with the exception that it is really nice to sail instead of motor. A new tech light air sail might be something you should consider if not all sailing is dead to weather .... APC by Doyle or C0 by North (45-120)?

 

[Terry411]

Get a used martec I bought one off ebay and had it redone at martec. Half or less price of new one. Just bought all new sails this year the prop was the better deal. And I had a two blade on this boat. I also went from a 3 blade to a martec on a different boat you will love the speed.

 

[Interlude]

I agree with those who suggest that a 50th birthday is as good an excuse as any to go for both, and if you want the best, go for the Gori 3 blade folding - an extra 0.5 to 1 knot and better pointing on our yacht. It also has an overdrive setting for motor sailing. Going astern I get better control than with the fixed 3 blade.

 

[NYSail]

Thanks for the great input and the birthday wishes! I am leaning towards the sail.... As my sailmaker says, I can get much greater performance out of a better cut with modern material over what I have. Right now the boat sails nice, but the size of the sail makes it a problem when I get gusts approaching 18 knots.... too much weather helm. A smaller sail (140+/- range) will perform better and keep the boat better balanced when the wind suddenly picks up.

Maybe for 51 I'll get the prop!

As always thanks for the input.

 

[Gr8sail]

Re: Low-drag prop, hands down!

Absolutely agree - get the prop. I put a 3 bladed Max Prop on my '95 Legend 37.5 in 1998. picked up over 1/2 knot. Boat tracks better and there is much less prop walk in reverse (like none). I lube with lithium grease on every haul and prop has been trouble free for 14 seasons. Prop is much easier on the transmission too. No spinning and I can start the engine at will (when locked in reverse, I used to have to bring the boat to a virtual stop to get it our of reverse).

 

[sandpiper10471]

I went with all new sails a couple of years ago. The performance difference was amazing. Then this year I went from a two blade fixed to a three blade flex-o-fold because I didn't want to detract from the great pleasure I had gained from the new sails. The biggest performance difference with the new prop is in motoring into wind or waves. More speed, consistent speed. I did not notice much of a difference in sailing performance.

 

[rardiH36]

No one has mentioned yet the Campbell Sailing prop as another lower drag prop option. Here is the link to Maine Sail's test and review.

http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=661706&highlight=campbell

 

[RobertLangdirect]

While this might open a can of worms . . .t is thousands less to purchase (and you all ready have one) compared to a folding or feathering prop. . .

Huh? Not on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sailboats-M..._Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item519b883176

I have a simple martek folding prop on GOOD TRADE. Does it make a difference? go to www.QuanticoYC.org for the results.
.

 

[John Nantz]

NY Sail - consider Asymmetrical vs 150 or 140

If you're leaning toward a sail, at least give some consideration toward an asymmetrical because they are fun. And you did say you like performance, right?

My reasoning: changing sails on a 36-footer is not all that much fun and as the years go by they become less fun and more work. The sails are large (this isn't your teenage daysailer anymore), bulky, take up precious room on board (where will you stow it), and dropping one sail while underway, bagging it, then hoisting the replacement with it's luff tape up the grouve on the furler with the attendant need to feed it by your wife while you hoist the jib halyard with the boat on autopilot.... well, just visualize it.

Plan B: Asymmetrical. Now these come in different cuts from the get-go. You can get close reachers to broad reachers, from really light weight for light winds to heavier stuff for the stronger winds. Free-flying - just roll up the working jib and no feeding of the luff-tape. Douse it by blanking it with the main and furl out the jib and you're good to go.

Pick a type and weight according to the conditions you'd like to fly it in. They tend to have good resale value because they will fit more boats than a jib will, should it come time to sell it.

Plus, it would tend to be used in lighter wind conditions which would probably please the Admiral more.

Still has to be stowed but so would any other sail that you get, but special note: it doesn't have to be folded!!! (save work)

Now one more comment: re the prop option. I mentioned about the higher sailing angle but this didn't seem to be picked up on by the sail lovers. This is highly important plus. Figure a fixed blade will give you a TRACKING angle of about 45 degrees to the wind while a low-drag prop will give you, say, 40 degrees. That, sir, is 5 degrees to the good! AND, if you order now and mention this channel, we'll throw in the higher boat speed for FREE!

You're from NY, right??? Okay, here it is, "Such a deal." Because you're a member of this board and because you're a sailboater, (following said in a hush voice), and... you're from NY, for you, and because I think you're such a nice guy, I'll throw in this one-time-only special .... are you listening?,.... you can use these benefits ... ALL ... the time! Get that? A-L-L the time!

Better boat speed, higher tracking angle, and use ALL the time....What's there not to like? Now what do you say?

 

[Mike1956]

I read recently that a 150 is too big most of the time, and a 135 would be better. Perhaps you could get the genoa recut, & buy the new prop. If the performance is better by even a half knot, if you cruise as much as I gather, it will mean a lot. The comments on transmission effects also should be taken in consideration. Have you ever sufferred any damage to yours as a result of having a fixed prop?

 

[Mike1956]

I read recently that a 150 is too big most of the time, and a 135 would be better. Perhaps you could get the genoa recut, & buy the new prop. If the performance is better by even a half knot, if you cruise as much as I gather, it will mean a lot. The comments on transmission effects also should be taken into consideration. Have you ever sufferred any damage to yours as a result of having a fixed prop?