Probably a dumb question!

[Bob S]

First off I want to thank the knowledgeable folks in this group for all their insight. I had no real experience up until 2008. My Catalina 30 is my first and only boat. I spent most of the last 2 years learning the mechanical side of the boat worrying about safety now I'm trying to teach myself the proper way to sail. I've read 3 books on sail trim but it wasn't until I read Don's that it began to set in.

There are three methods of trimming the jib. The jib sheets, fairleads and the halyard. I have used the sheet and fairlead to adjust but never the halyard. Would the process be the same for a hanked on sail vs. a furled sail?

Can't wait to get out and play with my new found knowledge!

 

[BobM]

There are more than three I think. Halyard tension affects how flat the sail is...more tension in high wind conditions, less for more belly in low. The other control I am thinking of is that many headsails have leach tensioners built in to help cup the sail. They are a small line in the leach usually with a plastic rope clutch cleat.

 

[Clark]

Typically, halyard tension for a furled sail is fixed. Now if you have an adjustable backstay, you can change tension of the forestay depending on point of sail and wind strength. Be careful though; if the jib halyard is really tight and you then induce more tension on the forestay (by pulling the mast tip back a little more) you may overstress the upper swivel of the furler. Also, furlers don't play well with slack forestays.

 

[RichH]

Clark is correct. If you add too much halyard tension to a headsail thats on a roller furler, you risk 'binding' the furler.

 

[Bob S]

Don't have an adjustable backstay but do have the leech tensioners. Is it ok to adjust the halyard a little?
Clark, makes sense that you could put a lot of stress on the upper swivel. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Alan]

This certainly is true on a masthead rig like the Cat 30 but it isn't true for fractional rig boats. Tensioning the backstay on a frac rig will bend the mast and flatten the main but have very little impact on the forestay and/or jib halyard.
Best way to deal with halyard tension on the masthead rig would be to ease the halyard slightly, tension the backstay then re-adjust the halyard as needed. You could also add a cunningham to the jib and use it in conjunction with the backstay instead.

 

[Stephen K]

Don't have an adjustable backstay but do have the leech tensioners. Is it ok to adjust the halyard a little?

Yes, I will slightly relax the jib halyard in light conditions and tighten it in higher winds. I believe adding / using a small cunningham on the jib would be more effective in tightening the jib luff. I have had that addition on my "to do" list, but have not gotten around to it.

 

[Bob S]

Thanks Stephen, I've actually done it but wasn't sure I was supposed to. I'm not the best looking sails out there but I will get better.
I am looking at Don's Sail Trim Charts. It references light medium and heavy conditions. Can someone put a number on that? We're blessed with good wind often 15-20kts in the afternoon. I would think that would be in the medium category.

 

[Joe]

The other control I am thinking of is that many headsails have leach tensioners built in to help cup the sail. They are a small line in the leach usually with a plastic rope clutch cleat.

I, myself, have never used the leech cord for anything other than to keep the back edge of the sail from fluttering..... It will indeed "cup" the leech... but that is not a good thing.. a cupped leech is an indication that the leech cord is overly tightened.

If you're sail's leech is cupped... the cord is to tight.

 

[Don Guillette]

Bob S: Trimming a hanked on or furled sail is basically the same - same principles apply. My suggestion is you stick with the jib sheets and fairleads for the time being. Forget the jib halyard for now and skip the backstay adjuster. The C30 mast is like a telephone pole and you can't bend it.

Learn to use the leech lines in the main and jib. They adjust "flutter" and stop the sails from beating themselves to death. When you tighten the mainsail leech cord you are bending the battens and giving the mainsail shape and depth. Just tighten enough to stop the flutter and you'll be very close to right on.

Later on, when you start messing with the jib or mainsail halyards, start this way. Bring the jib halyard to full hoist and then back it off very slightly. I don't like messing with halyards. The problem I had was halyard adjustment on my boat were made at the mast and I ended up with lines all over the deck. Sailors and all humans will do what is easy and not what is hard. I rarely messed with halyards until I installed Cunninghams. The weight of the sails make precise halyard adjustment difficult. The solution (see Alan's comments) is to install main and jib Cunninghams. A hanked on sail is easier to deal with concerning the "full hoist backoff" I mentioned but a furled sail is more efficient - it gives a nice foil to cut into the wind. You have to be careful with backing off the furled sail as you don't have a lot to play with. It is very easy for the tube to come off the pin at the top of the sail.

Thank you for the comments on my book. I'm glad it turned the sail trim lights on for you. The problem I found with books on sail trim and this applies to my bible "Sail Like A Champion" by Dennis Conner is the info is all over the place. For example, the outhaul would be on pages 5, 25, 56, and 75. The traveler and other controls were the same way and I couldn't figure out what all the sail trim controls were adjusting. Then they go into boat and sail construction. I didn't want to build them I just wanted to know how to sail the darn thing.

On light, medium and heavy air. They are just general terms. I didn't want to get specific because mates would them be telling me what heavy means to them. In general very light is 1 to 3 knots, light is say 4 to 6 knots, medium is 6 to 12 knots and heavy is over 15 knots. They might mean other things to other people.

 

[Don Guillette]

Bob S: i forgot to mention - there are no dumb questions on the sail trim forum. The only dumb question is the one that isn't asked. None of us were born with sail trim knowledge and we all had the same questions. Most of the "old Timers" on this forum have heard every sail trim question that could be asked - some we've heard and answered 100 times!!

 

[Winkfish]

The only dumb question is the one that isn't asked.

I was wondering when someone was going to come out with this saying!! How true it is. These forums are great, as is the patience of you guys and gals who do answer the same thing 100 times for the rest of us.

 

[Bob S]

Bob S: i forgot to mention - there are no dumb questions on the sail trim forum

OK here goes!
Your book reference 7 steps to determine "the proper amount of twist" (on the mainsail) step 3) "trim the mainsheet.

Seems like every time we go out it's blowing. I think you'd say heavy. Yesterday I had a problem trimming the mainsheet. I have to head into the wind in order to trim it in. Not easy on a broad reach. Would/could you use a winch to trim the mainsheet in medium to heavy winds? Same goes for the main halyard. I have used the winch on that but sometimes I feel like I'm putting too much pressure on it. What are the proper uses for the cabin top winches? I'm always afraid I might damage something.

I took my daughter & boyfriend across the bay for lunch 20mph winds all day with following seas. Had a full main and reefed jib but had problems with control. Got the boyfriend pretty sea sick. I furled the jib and sailed on main alone. Slower but more comfortable and made the admiral happier. I sailed on jib alone on the return voyage. I used your charts and had fun playing. Had all the telltales streaming while punching through 3' waves.


http://www.iwindsurf.com/windandwhe...Search=Go&Isection=Wind+Archive&regionID=1647

 

[rtaylor82]

I think I need to move my boat to where you are!