I am a first time buyer of a new sailboat. Is it normal practice to get a pre-purchase survey of a new boat? What has everyone else done?
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Look at it this way...
Would you buy a house without first getting a home inspection? Why would you buy a boat without getting one? 'Cuz that's what a prepurchase survey is. You get one because after the sale, it's the buyer who will be stuck with the house or the boat and any problems it may have that would have been discovered--and either corrected at the seller's expense, or become grounds for walking away from the deal if they're serious enough--during a complete pre-purchase...the only thing the seller will be "stuck with" is the buyer's money. Knowing that, wouldn't you want to know as much as you could about the boat before handing over your money? And btw...I've never known of a single instance in which a full pre-purchase survey didn't find at least enough that needed correcting to more than cover the cost of the survey.
Would you buy a house without first getting a home inspection? Why would you buy a boat without getting one? 'Cuz that's what a prepurchase survey is. You get one because after the sale, it's the buyer who will be stuck with the house or the boat and any problems it may have that would have been discovered--and either corrected at the seller's expense, or become grounds for walking away from the deal if they're serious enough--during a complete pre-purchase...the only thing the seller will be "stuck with" is the buyer's money. Knowing that, wouldn't you want to know as much as you could about the boat before handing over your money? And btw...I've never known of a single instance in which a full pre-purchase survey didn't find at least enough that needed correcting to more than cover the cost of the survey.
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Tom
Thanks for the response
I didn't get a home inspection when I bought my house new because it is covered by a warranty same with the boat but I would like to have any problems you find with a new boat fixed before I sail away. I have checked out some surveyors and they seemed to be oriented around the older boats.
I didn't get a home inspection when I bought my house new because it is covered by a warranty same with the boat but I would like to have any problems you find with a new boat fixed before I sail away. I have checked out some surveyors and they seemed to be oriented around the older boats.
If you were spending a million....
Tom: If you were spending a million bucks on a new boat, you may want to get a survey on it but there is no practical reason to have a survey on a new production boat. Once a boat is used, you are pretty much required to get a survey. This is more for the lender than for the buyer. This give the lender an estimated value that they are financing. What boat are you buying?
Tom: If you were spending a million bucks on a new boat, you may want to get a survey on it but there is no practical reason to have a survey on a new production boat. Once a boat is used, you are pretty much required to get a survey. This is more for the lender than for the buyer. This give the lender an estimated value that they are financing. What boat are you buying?
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Chris Gonzales
Surveys are not a cure-all
Tom, It is not reasonable to get a survey on a new boat with a warranty. But even when buying a used boat the information received in a survey is still an opinion and it is best to become as knowledgeable as possible and do some serious surveying yourself. There is some good stuff about serveys and what to look for in the archives. Check them out! Chris
Tom, It is not reasonable to get a survey on a new boat with a warranty. But even when buying a used boat the information received in a survey is still an opinion and it is best to become as knowledgeable as possible and do some serious surveying yourself. There is some good stuff about serveys and what to look for in the archives. Check them out! Chris
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Ed Schenck
Mixed feelings about. . . .
this question. Even on a new boat there are things you and the dealer could miss. Sure the warranty can cover the fix but what about the inconvenience? A few years ago, on this website, a new owner posted pictures of his new boat. It almost sank because of a factory defect. Maybe a survey would have caught that, and maybe not. I think a reputable dealer might include the cost of an unbiased surveyor in the deal.
this question. Even on a new boat there are things you and the dealer could miss. Sure the warranty can cover the fix but what about the inconvenience? A few years ago, on this website, a new owner posted pictures of his new boat. It almost sank because of a factory defect. Maybe a survey would have caught that, and maybe not. I think a reputable dealer might include the cost of an unbiased surveyor in the deal.
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David
New Boat Surveys
There is a practical reason to get a new boat survey and a good survey will be based on factual observation not opinion. Every new boat I have sold had problems and defects that surfaced at a much later date. Usually at the wrong time. The vessel is under warrenty so get as many items as possible corrected before the launch. The cost of time and aggravation prevented will be well worth the price of the survey.
There is a practical reason to get a new boat survey and a good survey will be based on factual observation not opinion. Every new boat I have sold had problems and defects that surfaced at a much later date. Usually at the wrong time. The vessel is under warrenty so get as many items as possible corrected before the launch. The cost of time and aggravation prevented will be well worth the price of the survey.
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Steve Winkle
Trust . . .
Tom, I've bought two new boats in my sailing life and did not have either of them surveyed. I placed my faith in the dealers involved and their willingness to stand behind the warranties. In both cases, whether I was lucky or the boats were well made, I have not had any problems. Some of that is due to the dealer's willingness to insure the boat is seaworthy when handed over to me and the rest is due to the manufacturer's capability. Both these boats were Hunters and I have been very pleased with both. IMHO, the cost of a survey for a new boat could be money better spent on toys and accessories. If you hold the dealer to honoring the warranties, you'll be satisfied. Fair winds, Steve
Tom, I've bought two new boats in my sailing life and did not have either of them surveyed. I placed my faith in the dealers involved and their willingness to stand behind the warranties. In both cases, whether I was lucky or the boats were well made, I have not had any problems. Some of that is due to the dealer's willingness to insure the boat is seaworthy when handed over to me and the rest is due to the manufacturer's capability. Both these boats were Hunters and I have been very pleased with both. IMHO, the cost of a survey for a new boat could be money better spent on toys and accessories. If you hold the dealer to honoring the warranties, you'll be satisfied. Fair winds, Steve
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Mike
Another reason to get a survey
especially if you are new to sailing is the sea trial portion of the survey. Remember, there are two key components to a full survey: the inspection, and the sea trial. I agree that your warranty might make the inspection portion worth less, but you might find it useful for an experienced professional to put the boat through its sailing paces for you. He may be able to show you things about the boat's performance that you wouldn't be able to figure out yourself (i.e., how difficult it is to reef the sails, how the boat reacts with a strong wind beam on). A good surveyor will also know better than you how a boat should perform, and can help you determine how this boat matches up with your skill level and sailing goals. If you are spending the money to buy a new boat, it is worth a few hundred more dollars to know that you are not only getting a sound craft, but one that is right for you.
especially if you are new to sailing is the sea trial portion of the survey. Remember, there are two key components to a full survey: the inspection, and the sea trial. I agree that your warranty might make the inspection portion worth less, but you might find it useful for an experienced professional to put the boat through its sailing paces for you. He may be able to show you things about the boat's performance that you wouldn't be able to figure out yourself (i.e., how difficult it is to reef the sails, how the boat reacts with a strong wind beam on). A good surveyor will also know better than you how a boat should perform, and can help you determine how this boat matches up with your skill level and sailing goals. If you are spending the money to buy a new boat, it is worth a few hundred more dollars to know that you are not only getting a sound craft, but one that is right for you.
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Jack
Without a doubt
Would you buy a new house and never have it inspected by an outside entity? Well you should, and by the way, much of the housing is built to code and inspected. In addition you would be wise to have an architect or engineer monitor the construction process. If I was buying a new boat I would want a surveyor to go through and create a punch list so I wouldn't find out a problem while on the water. I suspect that a new boat survey would be cheaper since things such as sails, rigging etc would not require a lot of scrutiny. A new owner with little experience will not know what to look for and may view a defect as normal such as vibrating engine, youv'e heard it before. "they all do that" etc. Most boats still cost more than a car these days and the quality control is not very good. Spend an extra couple of hundred bucks and get one.
Would you buy a new house and never have it inspected by an outside entity? Well you should, and by the way, much of the housing is built to code and inspected. In addition you would be wise to have an architect or engineer monitor the construction process. If I was buying a new boat I would want a surveyor to go through and create a punch list so I wouldn't find out a problem while on the water. I suspect that a new boat survey would be cheaper since things such as sails, rigging etc would not require a lot of scrutiny. A new owner with little experience will not know what to look for and may view a defect as normal such as vibrating engine, youv'e heard it before. "they all do that" etc. Most boats still cost more than a car these days and the quality control is not very good. Spend an extra couple of hundred bucks and get one.
I'm amazed!
I am amazed at this response to this post. I would like to know if anyone that has replied has ever had a survey on a NEW boat? With all of the items that are missed on a pre-purchase survey on used boats, what purpose would this serve. I know that there was a problem with a Hunter 260 last year and no one disagreed that this type of thing that should never leave the factory in such a condition. How many of you think that a surveyor would have ever caught this? I have to believe that you have to have SOME faith in the engineering and QC at the factory. If employees are empowered and made responsible for moving a quality product off of their lines, much of these type of things would never leave the factory. Do it correct the first time (get it corrected at the source) and the manufacturer can save millions of dollars each year. This would improve their bottom line and increase customer satisfaction by serveral points. You are never going to catch everything at the factory. Boats are hand made, unlike an automobile that is basically just an assembled product (and they have their own set of problems). The production boating industry is working on getting to this stage but they have a long way to go.
I am amazed at this response to this post. I would like to know if anyone that has replied has ever had a survey on a NEW boat? With all of the items that are missed on a pre-purchase survey on used boats, what purpose would this serve. I know that there was a problem with a Hunter 260 last year and no one disagreed that this type of thing that should never leave the factory in such a condition. How many of you think that a surveyor would have ever caught this? I have to believe that you have to have SOME faith in the engineering and QC at the factory. If employees are empowered and made responsible for moving a quality product off of their lines, much of these type of things would never leave the factory. Do it correct the first time (get it corrected at the source) and the manufacturer can save millions of dollars each year. This would improve their bottom line and increase customer satisfaction by serveral points. You are never going to catch everything at the factory. Boats are hand made, unlike an automobile that is basically just an assembled product (and they have their own set of problems). The production boating industry is working on getting to this stage but they have a long way to go.
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Pete
pre purchase survey
Tom, there are two schools of thought on a "new " boat survey as the other post have shown. I would suggest to you that a pre purchase survey on a new boat can't hurt and maybe save problems own the line. Depending on how qualifed you are to inspect a boat and how much of a comfort level you need for peace of mind would be big factor in getting a survey. Also consider your dealer reputation, Is it good,does he make good on promises ? You did not say what boat you will be buying so the cost is another factor, are you spending 10,000 or 250,000? The short answer is if it will make you feel better get it surveyed, It can only help !
Tom, there are two schools of thought on a "new " boat survey as the other post have shown. I would suggest to you that a pre purchase survey on a new boat can't hurt and maybe save problems own the line. Depending on how qualifed you are to inspect a boat and how much of a comfort level you need for peace of mind would be big factor in getting a survey. Also consider your dealer reputation, Is it good,does he make good on promises ? You did not say what boat you will be buying so the cost is another factor, are you spending 10,000 or 250,000? The short answer is if it will make you feel better get it surveyed, It can only help !
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Andy Howard
Yet another reason to get a survey
I agree with everything Steve just said, it's in the Mfg's best interest to put a quality product on the market and for the most part, I think all builders try to do that. A survey on a new boat is not going to turn up alot of problems, but Tom describes himself as a first time buyer so I assume this will be his first boat. The two surveys I've had done on older boats, I eventually bought, highlighted not only problems I didn't see, they helped me create and prioritize a to-do list, and they were a great learning experience. Armed with questions like: What additional equipment and electronics do I need?; How can I make this boat safer for myself and my family?; Is this the right boat for what I want to do? While happily answered by the dealer should also be asked and answered by someone who works for you. Would I have a survey done on a new boat? Probably not, but I've been "messin' around" sailboats for over 10 years.
I agree with everything Steve just said, it's in the Mfg's best interest to put a quality product on the market and for the most part, I think all builders try to do that. A survey on a new boat is not going to turn up alot of problems, but Tom describes himself as a first time buyer so I assume this will be his first boat. The two surveys I've had done on older boats, I eventually bought, highlighted not only problems I didn't see, they helped me create and prioritize a to-do list, and they were a great learning experience. Armed with questions like: What additional equipment and electronics do I need?; How can I make this boat safer for myself and my family?; Is this the right boat for what I want to do? While happily answered by the dealer should also be asked and answered by someone who works for you. Would I have a survey done on a new boat? Probably not, but I've been "messin' around" sailboats for over 10 years.
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Tom
Thanks for all the input
I see there is definitely two fields of thought. I am buying a Beneteau 311 from Annapolis Yacht Sales. Annapolis Yacht Sales seems to be really concerned about having a satisfied customer. Has anyone had any experiences with Annapolis Yacht Sales? I have been sailing the last 30 years with a fifteen year break so I probably know more than the first time boat buyer. I was really into sailing in high school
I see there is definitely two fields of thought. I am buying a Beneteau 311 from Annapolis Yacht Sales. Annapolis Yacht Sales seems to be really concerned about having a satisfied customer. Has anyone had any experiences with Annapolis Yacht Sales? I have been sailing the last 30 years with a fifteen year break so I probably know more than the first time boat buyer. I was really into sailing in high school
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David
Amazed?
Yes, I have surveyed new vessels. The problems discovered are not always those of the manufacturer, dealer or transport company but generally one comes into play. Most of these companies try to do their best and it is not a question of trust or faith but rather caveat emptor.
Yes, I have surveyed new vessels. The problems discovered are not always those of the manufacturer, dealer or transport company but generally one comes into play. Most of these companies try to do their best and it is not a question of trust or faith but rather caveat emptor.
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Bob Zolczer
Surveys make a lot of sense for new boats
When I buy another new boat, I'll have one done. I accepted my boat from the dealer, thought I had done a good job checking things, but apparently hadn't. The steering wheel fell off (the dealer hadn't tightened the edson nut enough). The dealer had never filled the transmission oil. It was bone dry (luckily I caught that). The bow water tank was never strapped or foamed in (factory defect I assume). I didn't catch that until it broke free from the fitting and we lost all our fresh water. The stainless anchor roller pulpit was missing two attachment bolts (caught that one). Fuel tank gauge sending unit was faulty (caught that one). I took the boat in that condition because the dealer had delayed getting the boat ready and was already a month past the promised delivery date. He had had the boat since early March and delivered it to me with work to be done at the end of May. This was a Hunter dealer of the year for a few years running. From my experience I have no idea how that happened. After I took delivery of the boat, the dealer ignored my numerous requests to complete the warranty work (I had alrady paid them all their money). I wrote a frustrated nastygram to Hunter and Hunter stood by their warranty by having a local boatyard do the remaining work. My next new boat will have a prepurchase survey (which would have probably picked up on all the faults above) and the dealer will not have an extra cent of the purchase price beyond the downpayment until everything is right.
When I buy another new boat, I'll have one done. I accepted my boat from the dealer, thought I had done a good job checking things, but apparently hadn't. The steering wheel fell off (the dealer hadn't tightened the edson nut enough). The dealer had never filled the transmission oil. It was bone dry (luckily I caught that). The bow water tank was never strapped or foamed in (factory defect I assume). I didn't catch that until it broke free from the fitting and we lost all our fresh water. The stainless anchor roller pulpit was missing two attachment bolts (caught that one). Fuel tank gauge sending unit was faulty (caught that one). I took the boat in that condition because the dealer had delayed getting the boat ready and was already a month past the promised delivery date. He had had the boat since early March and delivered it to me with work to be done at the end of May. This was a Hunter dealer of the year for a few years running. From my experience I have no idea how that happened. After I took delivery of the boat, the dealer ignored my numerous requests to complete the warranty work (I had alrady paid them all their money). I wrote a frustrated nastygram to Hunter and Hunter stood by their warranty by having a local boatyard do the remaining work. My next new boat will have a prepurchase survey (which would have probably picked up on all the faults above) and the dealer will not have an extra cent of the purchase price beyond the downpayment until everything is right.
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Kevin
Caveat Emptor
I agree... There are no perfect inspectors, home or boat surveyors. If you choose to place your trust in a third party to make a determination, ensure the third party is up to the the task---that may be as difficult as inspecting the article yourself. Just a thought...BOL
I agree... There are no perfect inspectors, home or boat surveyors. If you choose to place your trust in a third party to make a determination, ensure the third party is up to the the task---that may be as difficult as inspecting the article yourself. Just a thought...BOL
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Jim A
Yes, get a survey BUT
Take your time and look over the boat yourself before the survey gets there. Look and the engine, the sail, all hardware, the hull, and anything else. Write down any question like, "why is there silicone on the engine. Go over this list with the surveyer. Most surveyers does not speend too much time and the more you do yourself the better off you are.
Take your time and look over the boat yourself before the survey gets there. Look and the engine, the sail, all hardware, the hull, and anything else. Write down any question like, "why is there silicone on the engine. Go over this list with the surveyer. Most surveyers does not speend too much time and the more you do yourself the better off you are.
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