Pre-beginner sailor

justsomeguy · Jul 6, 2015

CaptainGreenSail said:
snip- ...potential expensive pitfalls?

CGS

This one gets my vote.

Usually, for not much more money, this can be mitigated.

centerline · Jul 6, 2015

wow... there is a lot you need to know and the very first thing is, if your working on a budget, project boats can actually be more expensive that a "turn key/ready to sail" boat.

because it takes a lot of money, time and money to fix up an old boat. (No, I did not make a typo)

but if you look, you can find affordable boats in decent shape that are just not wanted anymore...these are the boats to buy. something that has been fixed up nice and modernized in the past, yet has been neglected for whatever reason and needs to be sold....
you can learn to sail yourself, and if you get a simple sailing boat, its a good way to learn, although there are others that will argue this differently.... we all learn in different ways and at different speeds....

you must have a boaters card, which can be obtained online or from a class for a minimal one time fee... no other license required except for the boat and trailer, if equipped....

the big thing to worry about at this stage of your plans is not getting suckered into purchasing or getting for "free" someone elses POS that is going to burden, haunt and bleed you til you decide its not what you really wanted and dump it after putting a lot of time and money into it.

get a good "foundation" that is NOT riddled with someone elses bad ideas, and build on it and you will have fun fixing it up into a nice boat.

MrBill_FLL · Jul 6, 2015

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If you don't sail, its going to be hard to know what to look for when buying a project. a ready to sail boat would be a better 1st boat.

ebay and craigslist. or right here.

where do you live? MD?

Skipper · Jul 6, 2015

CaptainGreenSail said:
Hello everyone, I'm brand new to this forum and looking for advice. I don't own a sailboat, but feel the call of the water. I have absolutely no experience, but have basic construction skills and feel confident that I can use my resources to get a fixer-upper and get it ready for next spring. I'm thinking of getting a 26 foot +or- boat and trailer to keep in my yard. There is a free boat launch less than a mile away from my house on the Anacostia River in Maryland. I've seen "project boats" on craigslist in the under-$1,000 range. You can see that my budget is very entry-level. My question is very broad, so I'm ready for a variety of answers: What should I focus on in order to get going: classes? licenses? potential expensive pitfalls? I'm a blank slate here, so I appreciate any help. Thanks! CGS

It can be very economical actually, especially on a trailer.
Expensive is only if you want perfection. If the boat is safe and usable, then just sail.

To look at:
Mast, rigging and chainplates are securely fastened to the boat, and the parts to which they are fastened still have integrity. The rigging and attachment points should be inspected by someone who understands them.

Decks are not squishy to walk on. A little moisture is nothing to panic over, but you don't want the deck falling apart.

Sails have no major tears or abundant repairs. Old and faded is fine as long as there is still a bit of stiffness.

Hull is solid fiberglass.

Keel is securely attached.

I would highly recommend an outboard motor (long shaft) for river sailing on a budget. Easy to clear the prop, vector thrust, no through-hulls, and stunningly easy to maintain and repair, or if it craps just toss it and buy a different used one in good shape. Lots of em out there in 5-7 hp range for cheap.

Everything else is just busy-work. Wiring, plumbing, topside leak repair, woodwork, cleaning, painting, etc.

Btw, expect to sell it for what you paid for it, minus all the work you did. In this range, it's only for fun and experience.

If you post the make of the boat you're looking at, most on this board can say if it has any pedigree and worth looking at closer.

JohnShannon · Jul 6, 2015

get lessons http://asa.com/learn-to-sail/ or make friends with someone who has a boat. Some clubs have crew wanted lists.

Know where the wind is coming from, understand the boat can't go straight into the wind and may suddenly gybe if you are going straight downwind. if the sail flaps pull it in. If the sail isn't flapping let it out till it just begins to backwind. tiller towards trouble. there are some more details of course

Joe · Jul 7, 2015

Go to the library and look through every "how to sail" book they have.

Search your area for sailing classes at local community colleges, recreation departments, yacht clubs... etc. You live in Maryland... should be plenty of opportunities for this type of thing.

Take a sailing class... many people that take these classes have just bought boats and are looking to meet others with the same interest...

Parsons · Jul 7, 2015

I suggest taking John Shannon and Joe's advice: Don't confuse your (commendable) desire to learn to get on the water with the need to own a boat. There are other, much cheaper, ways to get introduced to sailing other than becoming a boat owner. You're starting at step 1 of a potentially life-long adventure on the water. Owning a boat may be step 23, or not even a necessary step. BTW: it's the most expensive step.

You're lucky that you live in the Chesapeake area where there are dozens of sailing clubs, yacht clubs, etc. that would love a willing student. Your first step should be Googling them, not Ebay. Don't become frightened by yacht clubs - they're just people who need a place to store their boats, not some snooty scene from a movie. Inquire about sailing or racing programs, who normally are looking for volunteer crew. Better, and cheaper, to find out if you like this sailing thing on someone else's boat.

Bad Obsession · Jul 7, 2015

Finding a boat with a suitable trailer is one thing. I would highly suggest not getting a fix-her-up job. You may grow frustrated with it because you don't want to spend all this time repairing a boat instead of sailing it.

Another issue is the weight. A sailboat tends to be a bit heavy because of ballast. What do you have as a tow weight for your vehicle?

I have a Compac 23. I have a trailer for her. She is pretty heavy (probably near 5500 pounds with trailer and the boat being fully loaded). It is a comfortable cruiser and pretty good to learn on. Still, there are may other boats out there with similar traits.

The bigger the boat gets, the more work it is to step the mast. You are looking at a good hour of time to rig and launch. This is why my boat sits in a slip in the season. It is a long of work.

Tides may also play a part on launching. Depending on how deep your boat is will be the big difference in this equation. I need almost 4' of water to launch so I can only launch on a high tide.

There is a good racing program in that area. People are always looking for crew. That is a good place to learn how to sail and gain a lot of good experience. Check around at the docks in Annapolis for boats looking for crew and when they race.

Brian S · Jul 7, 2015

If I were you, I'd learn to sail first. Either through ASA classes, or find a local sailing club that teaches. That might even get you boats that you can use to learn and get familiar with, to start to develop a sense of what you want out of a boat, before you start buying.

I once decided to get back into sailing after many years without any boat. I had this great idea that I would build a boat. I was talking to a friend who has written many reviews of boats for Wooden Boat magazine. He looked at me and said "Do you want to sail, or do you want to build a boat? Because if you want to sail, building a boat is about the hardest way to get there. But if you like building boats, hey, build yourself a boat." I took that to heart, and bought a used version of the boat I learned to sail on when I was a kid.

I think the fixer-up boat method is not the best way for someone to get started sailing. If someone likes to fix up boats, that will be good for them. As a corollary to this sentiment, if you don't even know how to sail yet, you won't have answers to any of these questions yet. And you don't have a clue yet what and how you will need to fix up the boat. 7 years and 4 boats after my decision to own a sailboat, I've fixed up 3, sold 2, and still have one torn apart waiting to get fixed up. I'm finally at the point where I can make assessments of what boat I should have, and if a given boat meets those needs, is too broken down to bother with, etc... And I'd rather just spend time on the one remaining fixed up boat! (Am I ever going to finish restoring the torn apart wood boat?)

31seahorse · Jul 7, 2015

"There is a free boat launch less than a mile away from my house on the Anacostia River in Maryland."

That statement offers a simple "boat show" for you any time the weather is acceptable. Go to the ramp and watch other sailors rig, launch, sail, and retrieve their boat. The difficulty or ease that they experience will probably give you ideas of what size and type of boat that a beginner could handle. If you see an opportunity to offer help you might be surprised how willing people are to talk about their boat.

Also, do you have crew (family) to consider? They can be a great help if they catch your interest, or they can be a hindrance if they do not share your enthusiasm. Many boaters find great family time activities on the water.

A sailing course through a boat club, USCGA, or a sailing school would be time well spent and can get you sailing in a short time. It will also save time by helping you avoid some mistakes and misunderstandings.

Best Wishes

Benny17441 · Jul 7, 2015

The costs of refurbishing and maintaining a sailboat grow exponentially with its size. In that budget look for boats in the 18' to 22' size. Since you are going to trailer, deploy and retrieve the capacity of your tow vehicle will come into play. Unless you already own a pick up truck or equivalent with a tow rating in excess of 5,000lbs I would not recommend anything larger than a 22'. It is not a good idea for a newbie to be looking for a project boat as you will not really know what a boat may need in parts, fixtures and work to be able to make a budget and set a reasonable completion schedule. The project budget and schedule must be formulated prior to purchasing the boat. Even then add 20% to the budget for unaccounted things that will turn up and double the time on the schedule. It is not unusual for an experienced person to take four hours to complete a job that he had swore he could finish in two. My advice postpone the idea of a boat project and get yourself as much boat as you can for a ready to sail boat within your budget.

JTulls · Jul 9, 2015

As a first step, I would recommend looking into classes. JWorld is a great option since they offer learn to sail classes up to cruising and will even do one-on-one lessons. They have a location in Annapolis -- not sure how far that actually is from you. With some time out on the water, you'll be able to better choose the kind of boat you want to get (day sailor vs. small cruiser). Hope that helps and good luck with everything!

inarathree · Jul 10, 2015

Not knowing where your sailing experience is starting at, I would start with a sunfish. Sail it for a season. Sell it. Get a Hobie Cat 16, sail it for a season. Sell it. Get a small day sailor, like a Catalina or Hunter 22. Sail it for a couple seasons. Take ASA classes at this time. Sell it. In your fourth season, start chartering something bigger, or get out with a friend with something bigger. Get some experience instead of jumping in. If you really want to sail then get a boat that is ready to sail. Don't spend your time fixing it. Start small. Learn on a small scale what you can and can't do. Learn how everything works. Sailing a sunfish, an H16 or C22/H22 is no different than sailing a 30 foot boat. Its just everything is smaller and simpler and *less expensive*. If you took a poll here or on just about any sailing forum, you will find that most or almost all sailors started sailing in a dingy class boat of some type (pram, sunfish, laser, etc), and moved up from there. Just cause your not a kid sailing in a camp, doesn't mean you can't have fun on something small.

TDudley · Jul 10, 2015

I live in DC and I am familiar with the Anacostia River. That is not asailing river especially in Maryland. That aside for a moment, you would need a boat ramp that allowed thedraft of a 26 foot boat. I doubt thatanywhere in Maryland where there is a boat ramp on the Anacostia it is deepenough to do that. Even if you were tobe able to put in and not get stuck in the mud (the river is pretty shallow)you would be stuck behind two or three fixed bridges that would block access tothe limited sailing waters of the Potomac. I have a 27 foot Hunter, and there is no way (going upstream) I couldget her past the Navy Yard due to bridges. All and all, this is not a good sailing area for a boat of the size youare speaking. To sail a 26 foot boat,you need to set your sites on the Chesapeake Bay which is not that far away(1hour car ride or less to sailing grounds. Or you could plan on sailing the Potomac, butagain, there is a lot of shallow water. And the main channel is only 50 ft wide. Further downstream, away from DC, you have a better chance for deeperwater.

Since you are just starting, one alternative would be to visit the couple ofsailing clubs in Alexandria VA that rent small sailboats for day sails on thePotomac. They also have classes you cantake prior to renting the boats. Theseboats are in the 16 foot range and would be good to learn on. This type of boat would be a good choice forplaying in the Anacostia.

NY1827FT · Aug 15, 2015

Agree with inarathree. My bride and I followed a similar path. Had friends with a Cat 27 and were able to get an understanding of handling a larger boat. Looked around for 3 years, during that time the bride got a super sunfish, which we sailed for 2 seasons. This year we lucked into a Cat 22 and made our move. Been sailing every weekend since June, and loving it. The boat was in the water when I bought it, so there was risk regarding the swing keel, rudder, and bottom. Luck was with us, and we've had no surprises. Best wishes with your efforts.

Gunni · Aug 16, 2015

Check out SailTime over in Annapolis, an ASA sailing school, they take care of the boats, you towel-off and go home. Don't buy a boat yet, it is like marrying the first woman you meet. Or should I say "life partner"?

Cats_Paw1 · Aug 17, 2015

Gunni said:
Don't buy a boat yet, it is like marrying the first woman you meet. Or should I say "life partner"?

This! You have no idea what type of sailing you like. There is a WORLD of difference between day-sailing and cruising, between racing and cruising, between PHRF and one-design racing. Given your budget, I'll assume you are a working man who needs to make wise decisions with his money. Find a local yacht club and go to the bar. Most every club in our area would welcome a new able bodies man who was willing to crew during wednesday night "beer can" races. Jump on a boat and learn the rudiments of how to sail. After that, maybe take a calss to refine your skill. then after you have some knowlege, purchase the boat you think you want........... Than, sell it and buy the one you really want (or the one you settle for because it's in your price range)!!

Good luck!