Prada cup on TV

Jan 2, 2017
765
O'Day & Islander 322 & 37 Scottsdale, AZ & Owls Head, ME
Whatever popularity these foiling monohulls have achieved will be lost because of how these aeroboats behave in light winds: they flop and float. They’re still doing 5-7 kts, which would be normal for a 12 metre but, compared to their foiling speed, they appear to be standing still. A failed experiment.
 
Oct 6, 2015
8
Compac 27 Anderson, SC
Until they go back to displacement hulls I have watched my last Americas cup. As a sailor I can't relate to these things on the water. Sailors race....engineers don't.
 
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May 17, 2004
5,070
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
I preferred the 12's off Freemantle. This is more like Pro drag racing. leave on them (win the start), hook the tires (get foiling), don't spin the tires downtrack (fall off the foils), win the race. These races are being decided at the start line and the first tack off the line unless something breaks or a major boat handling error occurs. Thin F1, rare to see a pass. I'm not impressed.
I watched the races last night, then today went back and watched a YouTube replay of the Fremantle cup to compare. To be fair, in the 4 Fremantle races I saw exactly one lead change (from one length behind at the first cross to ahead at the second cross). For the most part the starts were even, followed by Stars & Stripes walking away with little contest. Last night, even as uncompetitive as American Magic was, I saw twice as many lead changes as in the entire 87 cup match. With the 12’s once a boat was ahead by anywhere near a minute the race was out of hand, barring mechanical failure or serious error. Why stay tuned in at that point except just to see the sailing - the competition is largely over. Now even being 5:00 behind can be overcome in half a leg. If nothing else that helps keep engagement in hopes or fears of a big swing.

I don’t see how the Cup will turn back the clock away from foiling. When the first Cup catamarans foiled people said it wasn’t relatable for real sailors, and that the technology would never trickle down or apply to anything other than expensive Cup boats on flat water. 7 years later we have foils on everything from dinghies to around the world racers. A big part of America’s Cup history is purpose-built boats that are as fast as money can design - that’s not new; and excluding what is now a pretty common piece of technology would be pretty inconsistent with that spirit.

Having said all that, yeah I had a better time re-watching the 12’s in their tacking duels and spinnaker work than watching the AC75’s look for a puff to climb back up to the foils.
 
Jun 29, 2010
1,287
Beneteau First 235 Lake Minnetonka, MN
Well, that was an exciting day on the water. A bit too much, no idea why American Magic tried to pull that off on the last Mark rounding. Tactics have been an issue in the Prada Cup for the US.
 
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Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
For me it was enjoyable to see them racing in stronger winds. The little touchdowns they have occasionally were much more dramatic. Talk about getting “firehosed” :)

The “relive” feature will be getting a workout today!

I also became aware of the max wind speed and course upwind/downwind angle requirements.
 

jfgy

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Jun 8, 2004
32
Sabre 30 mk III Gainesville, FL
Just saw on CNN that Patriot capsized in gusty conditions. Very bad day.
Jess
 

JRacer

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Aug 9, 2011
1,333
Beneteau 310 Cheney KS (Wichita)
I don't think that's going to buff right out. Glad nobody got seriously hurt or killed and that they got the boat back to the dock. Going to be a long week for the AM shore crew.
 

RussC

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Sep 11, 2015
1,578
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
This is the schedule page. Subject to change of races are cancelled.


I’m hoping at least one of these will be in really windy conditions! We know they can foil and stay flying in sub 10knots stuff but it would be interesting to see them race if it’s 30:)

EDIT: I learned that there is a maximum wind strength for race cancellation.
And they were near the limit yesterday. really enjoyed watching this one. I won't spoil it, but it has some wild moments near the end :yikes:. edit: oops. someone already did ;:
 

RussC

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Sep 11, 2015
1,578
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
wondering if the Patriot didn't receive some hull damage from it's "event". she was sitting awfully low in the water after that.

EDIT to add:
uhhh yup. just saw this elsewhere. at least there's no racing for the next few days but that's no quick fix there.

AC210117lb_14869.jpeg
 
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May 17, 2004
5,070
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
wondering if the Patriot didn't receive some hull damage from it's "event". she was sitting awfully low in the water after that.
Yeah they did. The coverage I was watching cut away before the boat was righted, but here’s a little more of the aftermath -

And where all that water was coming from -

I’m guessing that crashing back down to the water overstressed the hull there, or the foil torque twisted something around enough to cause that hole?
 
Jun 29, 2010
1,287
Beneteau First 235 Lake Minnetonka, MN
From what I have read so far, it was the force of " landing " that caused the hole. Have seen some speculation also that something inside broke free and busted through. Can't find any official info yet though.
 
Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
From what I have read so far, it was the force of " landing " that caused the hole. Have seen some speculation also that something inside broke free and busted through. Can't find any official info yet though.
The teams are traditionally “secretive” about the parts they have control over so we may never know :)

The arms seemed to be still attached and in place so it doesn’t look like one of them broke loose and punched the hole. I wonder if it could be something like a battery or hydraulic pump?

Looking at the photo and considering the boat length is 75’ - they had to be at least 30’ up so the force on impacting the surface would have been massive.

I hope they can recover and keep racing.
 
Jun 29, 2010
1,287
Beneteau First 235 Lake Minnetonka, MN
So they have 4 days to fix Patriot or they will have to race their first generation boat. That is another disadvantage of course. Haven't dig in to it yet myself but, say they end up sailing the first gen boat, they will be in third and have to race against the 2nd place boat later this month. If Patriot was repaired by then, can they sail her going forward? Any rules guru's out there?
 
May 17, 2004
5,070
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
So they have 4 days to fix Patriot or they will have to race their first generation boat. That is another disadvantage of course. Haven't dig in to it yet myself but, say they end up sailing the first gen boat, they will be in third and have to race against the 2nd place boat later this month. If Patriot was repaired by then, can they sail her going forward? Any rules guru's out there?
From America's Cup 2021: American Magic skipper Terry Hutchinson recounts team's Prada Cup capsize - NZ Herald - “
Hutchinson said it was too early to know just how big a job it would be to get Patriot back on the water, but it was unlikely they would be ready to go for next weekend's racing. Instead, Hutchinson was hopeful American Magic would be able to sail in the semifinal in two weeks.”

Next week is just the end of the Round Robins. American Magic is pretty much already locked into not having the #1 spot there, so not a big loss if they need to forfeit those races. (The #1 team skips the semifinals.). If they’re not ready by the semifinals that would be a bigger deal. I remember syndicates in AC campaigns years ago switching boats, but I don’t know the rules on whether they can switch back, or how much slower their first gen boat is than Patriot. Not a good situation in any case, with on-the-water time they’ll lose and the time that the engineers and builders will be spending fixing the damage rather than improving the design.
 
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May 17, 2004
5,070
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Section 7.7 of the Prada Cup Conditions at AC36 Noticeboard seems to address switching boats (or more specifically “components”, like the hull). It seems they must declare the hull they’re going to use before the start of each set of races (Round Robin week 1 is one set as are RR week 2, semifinals, and finals). If there is damage to the boat that can’t be repaired before the next race then they can switch boats within a set. Otherwise they must wait for the next set.

So if I’m reading it right American Magic can declare they’re sailing Defiant in RR week 2, and the semifinals if needed, then declare Patriot for the finals if it’s ready.
 
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Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
During the live broadcast the commentators commented on what they “thought” happened to force the boat over AFTER splashdown. The comment was the main got pinned against a backstay that wasn’t released. it might have pinned but I’m not sure how far the main can be sheeted out anyway.